Water cooler failure??? bad day....

[John T]

Are you going to flush it out really good prior to using the new hoses?

Yes.

Done.

I also like BaTu's idea of a filter..... although, there IS a screen inside the Procon pump.

[John T]

Update,
I tested the HTP motor and pump and the pump is DOA
Disintegrated shear pin on the main shaft of the motor.

I installed a procon 220 V Motor/pump
Running into a 5 gallon pail of distilled water.
@ 50 psi, I am pushing just over 1 QT. per minute. (through CK super flex lines)
FAR BETTER #’s than what I got a while back when we tested the HTP coolers / flow.

IMO,
The HTP arctic chill coolers are junk.

I also don’t buy the excuse that it’s the flex lines expanding or whatever and reducing the flow.

It’s just not the case when you have a proper pump pushing the water.
I have seen this firsthand.

I’ve been testing this thing all day and it’s pumping steady without a hiccup.
(through the torch)
I installed a visual flow meter for peace of mind/just glance over and you can see the water moving through the WhirlyGig.

Also installed a pressure gauge to make sure it remains at the set pressure.

I plan to install a 220 V fan on the backside of the radiator.
That along with 5 gallons of water should be plenty.

The pump motor also has a fan internally which is a nice feature.
Thanks Gary wherever you are.

All I need to do now is find some proper replacement lines.
Most of them fit ok but the barbs going to the TIG torch are smaller than normal.
Must be an Italian thing.

[Xsbank]

I get the idea that the coolant is to keep the torch cool but I don't understand why the cooler failure is damaging the cable. Is the hose intended to keep the cable cool too? It seems that the cable is too small for the length used and the current it is carrying?

I think that a failed cooler will make the torch too hot to hold, not burn up the cable? Can someone explain?

A March 809 pump is an excellent pump but its 12 volts. I have one on my hydronic heater on the boat and it pumps hot water all day.

[Oscar]

I get the idea that the coolant is to keep the torch cool but I don't understand why the cooler failure is damaging the cable. Is the hose intended to keep the cable cool too? It seems that the cable is too small for the length used and the current it is carrying?

I think that a failed cooler will make the torch too hot to hold, not burn up the cable? Can someone explain?

A March 809 pump is an excellent pump but its 12 volts. I have one on my hydronic heater on the boat and it pumps hot water all day.

Yes, in a water-cooled TIG setup, the coolant serves the purpose of cooling both the torch and the current carrying conductor. The conductor is purposely sized smaller than it would normally would be because it is counting on the coolant wicking away the heat that will naturally occur. The conductor is approximately 10 gauge. That is meant to carry 250A.

[BaTu]

The conductor is approximately 10 gauge. That is meant to carry 250A.

Way smaller than that in my 25ft SF hoses (like 14ga!)...

[Oscar]

Way smaller than that in my 25ft SF hoses (like 14ga!)...

Which brand superflex hoses are you using? Did yours also burst?

[G-ManBart]

I get the idea that the coolant is to keep the torch cool but I don't understand why the cooler failure is damaging the cable. Is the hose intended to keep the cable cool too? It seems that the cable is too small for the length used and the current it is carrying?

I think that a failed cooler will make the torch too hot to hold, not burn up the cable? Can someone explain?

To expand slightly on what was already posted....the power cable is in the red hose on a standard water-cooled torch setup. The normal way of connecting everything has the blue hose taking cool water out to the torch, then coming back through the red line to the cooler return fitting. If the coolant stops flowing the red hose will usually fail pretty quickly....it's probably a combination of coolant boiling and rubber melting and sometimes the copper melting as well.

I suspect somewhere someone has put a flow meter with a sensor in the circuit and has it sound an alarm if the flow stops...wouldn't be all the complicated.

[BaTu]

Which brand superflex hoses are you using? Did yours also burst?

Oh no, I melted it after turning the cooler Off and then deciding I had enough time to keep welding for a few more mins ~hehe (this was Years ago and I replaced just the power hose -ck 225pcsf-). But the thing that I couldn't get over was how thin the copper can be if you water cool that cable.

3/32 Tungsten rod comparison

[Oscar]

Oh no, I melted it after turning the cooler Off and then deciding I had enough time to keep welding for a few more mins ~hehe (this was Years ago and I replaced just the power hose -ck 225pcsf-). But the thing that I couldn't get over was how thin the copper can be if you water cool that cable.

3/32 Tungsten rod comparison

I re-measured mine, and you're right. More like 14ga; 13ga at best. Mine was a bit unraveled, so it looked thicker. I will say however your hose has a lot more "material" with hardly any empty space for coolant to flow compared to mine, which is the taupe colored silicone rubber.

[123weld]

I was attempting to repair an AR500 target from my range..
everything was going great for the first 10 seconds.... then I smell rubber burning... lift the hood and the line is smoking... WTF.

torch is very warm but not hot.... good thing I stopped quick.

the only other thing was my ground clamp was on the table instead of the work piece...
but I saw where the piece fused itself to the table.... so it did have good ground... and welded ok until disaster...

I turned the cooler back on with the broken line and no water.....

So I guess my cooler pump has done sh*t the bed...

I have had problems and hatred with this piece of shi+T HTP cooler in the past...


time to put together a cooler with my procon pump.... I guess...
'obviously need new torch lines....

was going great until it wasn't ..

BTW,
the other welds are not mine.... I'm just welding the mount back on and fixing the swingers...

so they can blow it up again...


any thoughts?

Had to be the cooler crapped out and lack of water....

I had the machine cranked to get a good puddle on this 3/8" AR

I need a beer.
Attachment 1727344
Attachment 1727345
Attachment 1727346
Attachment 1727347

i bought a mig gun from them, it was absolute junk. i never used it, thats how bad it was, that how bad it was. inspecting it, it was something they mickey moused together, and it couldnt have been amp rated for what they claimed. when i called to address the mess, i got some spun out sounding tweaker like broad to talk too. when i followed up call, she didnt work there anymore, so i talked to some fool kid instead. i just let it go as a loss, i still have this thing laying around, new in the box. also, i like mild steel for targets better, as the slug emebeds more, so less stuff to fly around

[G-ManBart]

also, i like mild steel for targets better, as the slug emebeds more, so less stuff to fly around

I'm only commenting because this is absolutely false and bad advice....even dangerous advice. You can do whatever you want, but nobody should believe, much less follow this advice.

For background purposes, I've managed firearms training facilities multiple times over the years in the military and on the federal law enforcement level. I've been involved in range management, maintenance, construction and repair during those times as well. I've been a firearms instructor for most of that time, and a competitive shooter for 38 years helping manage ranges and maintain them. I've had access to studies done trying to predict shrapnel trajectories off steel targets done for one of the largest federal law enforcement training facilities in the country as well. I don't consider myself an expert in predicting bullet behavior after hitting steel, but I've talked to the folks who are, and read their studies. They will always recommend hardened steel targets, generally with the top slightly closer to the shooter to minimize the risk of shrapnel hitting the shooter. After decades of shooting literally hundreds of thousands of rounds, much of it on steel, my experience matches what the experts claim.

About two years ago I helped a target company conduct a test on just this very topic....I'm close friends with the brother-in-law of the owner. They made identical targets out of AR500 and extra thick mild steel thinking the extra thickness would keep them from denting and be cheaper than the AR500. They brought the targets to my range and even with normal pistol calibers like 9mm and .40S&W the shrapnel was flying all over the place...we could hear it landing on the roof of my shop (metal roof) after every shot. Switched to the AR500 target and all we heard were pieces landing in the leaves in the woods on either side of the range....going over the side berms a bit, but not back towards us.

All the times I've seen shooters get cut by shrapnel it's always been on steel with dimples that was about to the point where it needed to be replaced.

I have a couple of mild steel targets on my pistol range (50yd pistol bay behind my shop) but I only shoot them with rimfire or extremely mild ammo like .38 wadcutters. Any time I let friends shoot on my range I lay those targets down so they don't get shot by accident.

Hardened steel targets are the safest choice...period.

[John T]

I'm only commenting because this is absolutely false and bad advice....even dangerous advice. You can do whatever you want, but nobody should believe, much less follow this advice.

For background purposes, I've managed firearms training facilities multiple times over the years in the military and on the federal law enforcement level. I've been involved in range management, maintenance, construction and repair during those times as well. I've been a firearms instructor for most of that time, and a competitive shooter for 38 years helping manage ranges and maintain them. I've had access to studies done trying to predict shrapnel trajectories off steel targets done for one of the largest federal law enforcement training facilities in the country as well. I don't consider myself an expert in predicting bullet behavior after hitting steel, but I've talked to the folks who are, and read their studies. They will always recommend hardened steel targets, generally with the top slightly closer to the shooter to minimize the risk of shrapnel hitting the shooter. After decades of shooting literally hundreds of thousands of rounds, much of it on steel, my experience matches what the experts claim.

About two years ago I helped a target company conduct a test on just this very topic....I'm close friends with the brother-in-law of the owner. They made identical targets out of AR500 and extra thick mild steel thinking the extra thickness would keep them from denting and be cheaper than the AR500. They brought the targets to my range and even with normal pistol calibers like 9mm and .40S&W the shrapnel was flying all over the place...we could hear it landing on the roof of my shop (metal roof) after every shot. Switched to the AR500 target and all we heard were pieces landing in the leaves in the woods on either side of the range....going over the side berms a bit, but not back towards us.

All the times I've seen shooters get cut by shrapnel it's always been on steel with dimples that was about to the point where it needed to be replaced.

I have a couple of mild steel targets on my pistol range (50yd pistol bay behind my shop) but I only shoot them with rimfire or extremely mild ammo like .38 wadcutters. Any time I let friends shoot on my range I lay those targets down so they don't get shot by accident.

Hardened steel targets are the safest choice...period.

Good advice.

The range I belong to only uses AR500 also tilts them forward /slightly.

I am a new'er member, so my volunteer work hours consist of fixing up these targets so they can break them again...

Most of the damage comes from steel core ammo.... which is not allowed... but it happens.
see the pic...
with lead ammo, the AR holds up well...
looks like originally they were using 1/4" swingers... and I see some cracks.
the 3/8" swingers look good.
one of the 1/4"ers has holes right through it.
(those will be welded up)
I find most of the damage is the butter bolts used as hinges and the mount on the bottom that slide over the pole mounted in the ground...

I'm not re-engineering anything... and yes there is a lot of piled on/ non penetration welds here.. from previous "weldors"

I'm just putten em back together. (job security)

a few pics coming.

[John T]

[John T]

Back to the HTP thing...

Well actually, CK via HTP....

My new CK superflex lines are slightly different than the original set I had... The short red line going into the Dinse is now a solid line (not super flex)
also comes with a fabric type hose covering with a zipper....
whereas the original came with a leather/velcro cover...
hmm.....

I'll prolly swap the covers...
the leather slides nicer than the fabric.... especially when it's wrapped around yer neck...

[Oscar]

Mine also came that way on my Invertig 400. The kit itself from CK doesn't include the Dinse connector nor the short hose, so it's kinda pieced together by vendors. You can usually see this if you look for the "bare" kits on Amazon or other vendors as well. HTP can get the leather cover, but it's an added expense as it is not standard anymore. I just recently ordered a 25ft torch with superflex hoses and I'm glad I asked because I also prefer the leather cover.

[123weld]

also, i like mild steel for targets better, as the slug emebeds more, so less stuff to fly around

I'm only commenting because this is absolutely false and bad advice...


your so full of ****

[MinnesotaDave]

I'm only commenting because this is absolutely false and bad advice...


your so full of ****

You may have forgot, so here is a reminder, being polite during disagreements is a good thing. Most people appreciate it.

[123weld]

You may have forgot, so here is a reminder, being polite during disagreements is a good thing. Most people appreciate it.

wasnt a typical disagreement, he just bypassed questioning/addressing me, and jumped directly to telling everyone else im absolutely false, and carries on w/ a bunch of mumbo jumbo trying to build himself up. i've never talked to the guy, i was sharing my experience w/ member john, when he butt in and did this. not polite, rude on his part. so, i replied accordingly . i hope u review it again

[G-ManBart]

wasnt a typical disagreement, he just bypassed questioning/addressing me, and jumped directly to telling everyone else im absolutely false, and carries on w/ a bunch of mumbo jumbo trying to build himself up. i've never talked to the guy, i was sharing my experience w/ member john, when he butt in and did this. not polite, rude on his part. so, i replied accordingly . i hope u review it again

There was no need for questions, or addressing anything about your post to point out it was unsafe, dangerous advice.

[jagboy69]

Oh wonderful! And I JUST received my arctic chill. How dumb does that make me? Should I give it back?

Let's see if Jeff calls me this week.

[Munkul]

As long as it works...

I like the procon pumps best. They just seem to keep going.

[Louie1961]

John, not trying to poke a stick in your eye, but I noticed in another one of your threads you put a couple of capfulls of chlorine bleach into the cooler in the past. I wonder if that wasn't the cause of your failure. Was the shear pin corroded at all?

[John T]

John, not trying to poke a stick in your eye, but I noticed in another one of your threads you put a couple of capfulls of chlorine bleach into the cooler in the past. I wonder if that wasn't the cause of your failure. Was the shear pin corroded at all?

No prob.
You are correct, I did add A capful or so of bleach with the distilled water at one point

But that only lasted a couple days, I flushed it out and went back to the distilled water/HTP algae treatment stuff.

No, the shear pin wasn’t corroded
Not sure what went wrong/it almost look like it was a defect in the steel.

Who knows.

I still have the motor and fan ,
It works fantastic/it’s a great little motor and that fan puts out a lot of air

One of these days I’m gonna build a cage for around the fan blade so I don’t cut my hand off

It will be a nice little fan for the garage.


There are plenty of HTP coolers out there working well
I guess I just got one made on a Friday

My issue was always with the pump itself and not the motor or anything else.

[William McCormick]

These are the hoses off of my machine.
In a fit of depression/rage I just clipped everything.

none of the hoses look bad
Internally except for the power hose/cord... because it got smoked.

I blame my situation on the HTP pump.
I never felt it was up to proper pressure.
Maybe I got a dud who knows.

It worked fine for a few years and then all of a sudden the flow alarm started going off
And it all went downhill from there.

I blame the pump/not the hoses or deterioration thereof etc. etc.
but thatÂ’s just my opinion

New hoses are on the way
And I am installing a procon pump/motor in the old housing.

Not the prettiest thing but IÂ’m sure it will work.
I will be installing quad muffin fans in front of The radiator also
I have offered the HTP pump and motor to Oscar for forensics testing if he wishes.
I am done.

I only use the flex power cable hose, and regular black hoses for gas and return water. I have one of the older high-pressure pumps that have a quarter horsepower driving it. They work pretty well and don't die.

If the torch does clog which happened once a long time ago you can feel the pressure in the hose as it stiffens up. Then I just shut it down. I have been hit with the steam before it is not fun.

Sincerely,

William McCormick

[William McCormick]

These are the hoses off of my machine.
In a fit of depression/rage I just clipped everything.

none of the hoses look bad
Internally except for the power hose/cord... because it got smoked.

I blame my situation on the HTP pump.
I never felt it was up to proper pressure.
Maybe I got a dud who knows.

It worked fine for a few years and then all of a sudden the flow alarm started going off
And it all went downhill from there.

I blame the pump/not the hoses or deterioration thereof etc. etc.
but that’s just my opinion

New hoses are on the way
And I am installing a procon pump/motor in the old housing.

Not the prettiest thing but I’m sure it will work.
I will be installing quad muffin fans in front of The radiator also
I have offered the HTP pump and motor to Oscar for forensics testing if he wishes.
I am done.

I didn't see the last picture you have a good pump. Is that a Procon Pump? They are great if you take care of them. Just don't let them freeze. You can replace the veins.

Sincerely,

William McCormick