Picked up a couple of Gems.. or Turds

[chickenfarmer]

I won a couple of cool old girls at an auction this week. A Dialarc HF-P and an Aircrafter 330ST
I don't know anything about the condition other than the sheet metal being pretty beat up. The Aircrafter unfortunately looks like it was chopped to fit under a bench. I think they were in use before the place shut down but I really don't know for sure, the first thing I need to do is find some footpedals. I'll probably sell one of them once I try them out and try to smooth out some sheet metal
I certainly don't need them both but they were too cool to pass up

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[John T]

I won a couple of cool old girls at an auction this week. A Dialarc HF-P and an Aircrafter 330ST
.

Hope you got a good deal.

I think the P in the Dialarc HF-P means "power factor corrected"

[jpump5]

Will they run on single phase power?

[chickenfarmer]

Yea the power factor corrected means that it pulls a few less amps than an HF. I think that's the only difference.
They both will run on single phase 240v
And I believe you can run them off 480 3 phase by using two of the legs. Which is nice if you have 3 phase because they pull a ton of amps at 240v. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong there, but I think that's how they are wired in a shop with 3 phase power

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[Meltedmetal]

If you don't have the company literature on them you should be able to find it here:https://www.millerwelds.com/support/manuals-and-parts
The HF-P will pull fewer amps while welding but a lot more idling. Unless you are on commercial power and need to watch your Power Factor the -P is not really too valuable to you unless you spend a lot of time welding steady. Just my $0.02.

[chickenfarmer]

I didn't know that, it would be interesting to measure how many amps it actually pulls compared to an HF at idle and otherwise. Cool stuff, luckily I'm not concerned with the cost to run it, it's certainly not a machine I'll be spending hours a day on

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[Meltedmetal]

What is below is from the owner's manual of a Lincoln Idealarc. Idle current without (Power Factor Correction)PFC 6.2 amps With PFC
23 amps. But when you are actually welding with PFC is better. FYI the color of the machine won't change the science either. So don't just walk away and leave it on cause you like that hum. Also it is Friday


TECHNICAL SPECIFICATIONS: IDEALARC AC/DC 250
Model AC/DC 250 AC/DC 250
Type K1053 K1054
AC Input Frequency 60 50
Output Rating NEMA CLASS II (60) IEC 974
AC DC AC DC
Amperes 300 250 250 250
Volts 32 30 30 30
Duty Cycle 20 30 30 30
Current Range 35-300 40-250 35-250 40-250
Max. O.C.V. 72 70 72 70
Input Power
Standard Voltages 208/230/460 220/380/440
230/460/575 380/415/500
Rated Input Current
(230V 60Hz, 220V 50Hz)
With Condensers 68 68
Without Condensers 86 86
Idle Input Current (230V)
With Condensers 23 23
Without Condensers 6.2 6.2
Power Factor (200 Amp Load)
With Condensers 83.3 83.3
Without Condensers 69.0 69.0
INPUT - OUTPUT RATINGS
HEIGHT WIDTH DEPTH WEIGHT
27.00 in. 19.00 in. 21.50 in. 350 lbs.
159 kg
686 mm 483 mm 546 mm

[chickenfarmer]

That is super interesting, it does have a nice hum!

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[Kelvin]

It's always puzzled me how PFC machines burn so much power at idle. 23A @ 240V is 5520W. That's like three (almost four) 1500W space heaters running wide-open. Where's all that energy go?

[John T]

Where's all that energy go?

Keeping the capacitors fully charged??

in my old idealarc, they are huge. (mine are disconnected)

[Kelvin]

Keeping the capacitors fully charged??

So...they just absorb energy and absorb energy and absorb energy forever? 23A @240V is a lot of energy (about 5.5 kWh per hour) going somewhere.

I thought caps absorbed energy until their plates were charged, and then absorbed no more energy unless/until they were discharged. Like putting gasoline into a tank. When it's full, it won't take any more and the gas spills out onto the ground.

If they just absorb 5500W of power forever, that seems to me like a fuel tank of infinite capacity...or one with a big leak. The energy has to go somewhere. The only thing I can think of is that it's converted to heat.

[Meltedmetal]

The PFC caps are connected across the AC input so they charge in one direction then discharge and recharge in the other direction with the current reversal cycle.
https://www.doeeet.com/content/eee-c...tion-circuits/

[frieed]

It will draw a lot of current, but no use a lot of power since the current is out of phase with the voltage
see this post I made a while back
https://weldingweb.com/vbb/threads/7...96#post8755396
The bulk of the idle power is dissipated by the series resistance of the PFC caps.
On my Idealarc 250 they are composed of a small cap and a large one in parallel.
Since I never burn any rod larger than 1/8" I'm tempted to disconnect the larger cap.

[Kelvin]

Thanks, Meltedmetal and Frieed...wish I understood that kind of stuff better.