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Thread: Picked up a couple of Gems.. or Turds

  1. #1
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    Picked up a couple of Gems.. or Turds

    I won a couple of cool old girls at an auction this week. A Dialarc HF-P and an Aircrafter 330ST
    I don't know anything about the condition other than the sheet metal being pretty beat up. The Aircrafter unfortunately looks like it was chopped to fit under a bench. I think they were in use before the place shut down but I really don't know for sure, the first thing I need to do is find some footpedals. I'll probably sell one of them once I try them out and try to smooth out some sheet metal
    I certainly don't need them both but they were too cool to pass up

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  3. #2
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    Re: Picked up a couple of Gems.. or Turds

    Quote Originally Posted by chickenfarmer View Post
    I won a couple of cool old girls at an auction this week. A Dialarc HF-P and an Aircrafter 330ST
    .
    Hope you got a good deal.

    I think the P in the Dialarc HF-P means "power factor corrected"
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  4. #3
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    Re: Picked up a couple of Gems.. or Turds

    Will they run on single phase power?
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  5. #4
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    Re: Picked up a couple of Gems.. or Turds

    Yea the power factor corrected means that it pulls a few less amps than an HF. I think that's the only difference.
    They both will run on single phase 240v
    And I believe you can run them off 480 3 phase by using two of the legs. Which is nice if you have 3 phase because they pull a ton of amps at 240v. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong there, but I think that's how they are wired in a shop with 3 phase power

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    Re: Picked up a couple of Gems.. or Turds

    If you don't have the company literature on them you should be able to find it here:https://www.millerwelds.com/support/manuals-and-parts
    The HF-P will pull fewer amps while welding but a lot more idling. Unless you are on commercial power and need to watch your Power Factor the -P is not really too valuable to you unless you spend a lot of time welding steady. Just my $0.02.
    ---Meltedmetal

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    Re: Picked up a couple of Gems.. or Turds

    I didn't know that, it would be interesting to measure how many amps it actually pulls compared to an HF at idle and otherwise. Cool stuff, luckily I'm not concerned with the cost to run it, it's certainly not a machine I'll be spending hours a day on

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    Re: Picked up a couple of Gems.. or Turds

    What is below is from the owner's manual of a Lincoln Idealarc. Idle current without (Power Factor Correction)PFC 6.2 amps With PFC
    23 amps. But when you are actually welding with PFC is better. FYI the color of the machine won't change the science either. So don't just walk away and leave it on cause you like that hum. Also it is Friday


    TECHNICAL SPECIFICATIONS: IDEALARC AC/DC 250
    Model AC/DC 250 AC/DC 250
    Type K1053 K1054
    AC Input Frequency 60 50
    Output Rating NEMA CLASS II (60) IEC 974
    AC DC AC DC
    Amperes 300 250 250 250
    Volts 32 30 30 30
    Duty Cycle 20 30 30 30
    Current Range 35-300 40-250 35-250 40-250
    Max. O.C.V. 72 70 72 70
    Input Power
    Standard Voltages 208/230/460 220/380/440
    230/460/575 380/415/500
    Rated Input Current
    (230V 60Hz, 220V 50Hz)
    With Condensers 68 68
    Without Condensers 86 86
    Idle Input Current (230V)
    With Condensers 23 23
    Without Condensers 6.2 6.2
    Power Factor (200 Amp Load)
    With Condensers 83.3 83.3
    Without Condensers 69.0 69.0
    INPUT - OUTPUT RATINGS
    HEIGHT WIDTH DEPTH WEIGHT
    27.00 in. 19.00 in. 21.50 in. 350 lbs.
    159 kg
    686 mm 483 mm 546 mm
    ---Meltedmetal

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  10. #8
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    Re: Picked up a couple of Gems.. or Turds

    That is super interesting, it does have a nice hum!

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    Re: Picked up a couple of Gems.. or Turds

    It's always puzzled me how PFC machines burn so much power at idle. 23A @ 240V is 5520W. That's like three (almost four) 1500W space heaters running wide-open. Where's all that energy go?

  12. #10
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    Re: Picked up a couple of Gems.. or Turds

    Quote Originally Posted by Kelvin View Post
    Where's all that energy go?
    Keeping the capacitors fully charged??

    in my old idealarc, they are huge. (mine are disconnected)
    Miller 211
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  13. #11
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    Re: Picked up a couple of Gems.. or Turds

    Quote Originally Posted by John T View Post
    Keeping the capacitors fully charged??
    So...they just absorb energy and absorb energy and absorb energy forever? 23A @240V is a lot of energy (about 5.5 kWh per hour) going somewhere.

    I thought caps absorbed energy until their plates were charged, and then absorbed no more energy unless/until they were discharged. Like putting gasoline into a tank. When it's full, it won't take any more and the gas spills out onto the ground.

    If they just absorb 5500W of power forever, that seems to me like a fuel tank of infinite capacity...or one with a big leak. The energy has to go somewhere. The only thing I can think of is that it's converted to heat.
    Last edited by Kelvin; 05-30-2021 at 07:24 PM.

  14. #12
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    Re: Picked up a couple of Gems.. or Turds

    The PFC caps are connected across the AC input so they charge in one direction then discharge and recharge in the other direction with the current reversal cycle.
    https://www.doeeet.com/content/eee-c...tion-circuits/
    ---Meltedmetal

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  16. #13
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    Re: Picked up a couple of Gems.. or Turds

    It will draw a lot of current, but no use a lot of power since the current is out of phase with the voltage
    see this post I made a while back
    https://weldingweb.com/vbb/threads/7...96#post8755396
    The bulk of the idle power is dissipated by the series resistance of the PFC caps.
    On my Idealarc 250 they are composed of a small cap and a large one in parallel.
    Since I never burn any rod larger than 1/8" I'm tempted to disconnect the larger cap.
    Last edited by frieed; 05-31-2021 at 07:54 AM.
    MillerMatic 252, HTP 221 w/cooler, Hypertherm PM45, Lincoln IdealArc 250 AC/DC

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  18. #14
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    Re: Picked up a couple of Gems.. or Turds

    Thanks, Meltedmetal and Frieed...wish I understood that kind of stuff better.

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