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Thread: Existing electrical 240 V 15 A - what can be welded or am I out of luck.

  1. #26
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    Re: Existing electrical 240 V 15 A - what can be welded or am I out of luck.

    I never had a GFI on my welder.
    That sounds like local code.
    It is good thing for safety.
    They coast $130.00 if fits your box.
    In few years it will NEC where to use the breaker.
    Where live they need on pools and spa.

    Dave

    Quote Originally Posted by Willie B View Post
    You will do what you will do. I believe a cord is a dangerous solution. Under certain circumstances a range outlet is not grounded as a welder should be. Running it rthrough a door or window risks it being damaged, across the ground it'll get run over by mower or car. Rain is a concern.

    In general extension cord circuits are supposed to be GFCI protected.

    GIVE IN. RUN A CIRCUIT FOR A WELDER. IDEALLY, A #6 CIRCUIT WITH A 60 AMP BREAKER. IT LIKELY WILL POWER ANY WELDER YOU BUY AT ANY TIME.
    Last edited by smithdoor; 1 Week Ago at 11:22 AM.

  2. #27
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    Re: Existing electrical 240 V 15 A - what can be welded or am I out of luck.

    Interesting. I do generally Aire on the side of safety. If it is not grounded, yes that is a concern. GFCI does require a neutral as far as I understand to function properly,But am not an electrician so cannot confirm that.

    how do I know that both a range and a dryer outlet are grounded? I have seen the 8thgauge cables and they do have three conductors.

    I also wanted to clarify that this is a temporary set up. Meeting after every use, the court would be returned to the unused kitchen. No lawnmowers, cars or anything else will damage the cord
    Last edited by metreek; 1 Week Ago at 11:53 AM.

  3. #28
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    Re: Existing electrical 240 V 15 A - what can be welded or am I out of luck.

    Quote Originally Posted by metreek View Post
    Interesting. I do generally Aire on the side of safety. If it is not grounded, yes that is a concern. GFCI does require a neutral as far as I understand to function properly,But am not an electrician so cannot confirm that.

    how do I know that both a range and a dryer outlet are grounded? I have seen the 8thgauge cables and they do have three conductors.

    I also wanted to clarify that this is a temporary set up. Meeting after every use, the court would be returned to the unused kitchen. No lawnmowers, cars or anything else will damage the cord
    William is referring to the fact that is a 3 wire range receptacle that you think has a ground but is actually a neutral being used as a ground. It was never a good idea and finally they made code to address this. Hence they are all 4 wire now and use a ground and a separate neutral for a current carrying conductor.

    So technically it isn't a ground in that range outlet but rather a neutral which people will discuss and argue about saying it goes the same place and honestly the welder is better off using it as a ground than the range is using it for a neutral and a ground IMO.

    Really if you are in the main panel with it which it should have been to be able to share in the first place then it will actually function fine as the ground for the welder almost certainly.
    Last edited by danielplace; 1 Week Ago at 02:22 PM.

  4. #29
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    Re: Existing electrical 240 V 15 A - what can be welded or am I out of luck.

    Quote Originally Posted by danielplace View Post
    William is referring to the fact that is a 3 wire range receptacle that you think has a ground but is actually a neutral being used as a ground. It was never a good idea and finally they made code to address this. Hence they are all 4 wire now and use a ground and a separate neutral for a current carrying conductor.

    So technically it isn't a ground in that range outlet but rather a neutral which people will discuss and argue about saying it goes the same place and honestly the welder is better off using it as a ground than the range is using it for a neutral and a ground IMO.

    Really if you are in the main panel with it which it should have been to be able to share in the first place then it will actually function fine as the ground for the welder almost certainly.
    I submit. ALL the esteemed code panel members, Mike Holt, a few thousand experts & I are wrong. Neutral is the same as equipment ground.
    An optimist is usually wrong, and when the unexpected happens is unprepared. A pessimist is usually right, when wrong, is delighted, and well prepared.

  5. #30
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    Re: Existing electrical 240 V 15 A - what can be welded or am I out of luck.

    Quote Originally Posted by Willie B View Post
    I submit. ALL the esteemed code panel members, Mike Holt, a few thousand experts & I are wrong. Neutral is the same as equipment ground.
    Not sure what your saying.

    In a 3 wire range outlet it has a insulated Neutral used for return of 120 volt items in the range and also used to bond the cabinet to the neutral where it is also being used as a equipment ground. Ranges and dryers of 3 wire type they were the same.

    You would never use just 3 wires to feed a 120/240 volt outlet, a device or a sub panel today and share the neutral and use it for your ground too.

  6. #31
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    Re: Existing electrical 240 V 15 A - what can be welded or am I out of luck.

    Technically you can use the ground wire as a neutral... doesn't make it a good idea though. The earthing system is designed to allow a large amount of current safely get away, and overload the fuse or breaker, before anyone gets electrocuted.
    Murphy's Golden Rule: Whoever has the gold, makes the rules.

  7. #32
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    Re: Existing electrical 240 V 15 A - what can be welded or am I out of luck.

    Quote Originally Posted by danielplace View Post
    Not sure what your saying.

    In a 3 wire range outlet it has a insulated Neutral used for return of 120 volt items in the range and also used to bond the cabinet to the neutral where it is also being used as a equipment ground. Ranges and dryers of 3 wire type they were the same.

    You would never use just 3 wires to feed a 120/240 volt outlet, a device or a sub panel today and share the neutral and use it for your ground too.
    A 230 Volt welder doesn't use a neutral. It can be fed with SEU, a cable with two insulated current carrying conductors and a bare equipment ground conductor.

    Earlier codes allowed for a range to be fed the same way IF it originated from service equipment.

    I've had countless people tell me Equipment ground & neutral are the same thing. Unanimously, the experts see otherwise.
    An optimist is usually wrong, and when the unexpected happens is unprepared. A pessimist is usually right, when wrong, is delighted, and well prepared.

  8. #33
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    Re: Existing electrical 240 V 15 A - what can be welded or am I out of luck.

    Yes most of us know a welder doesn't use a neutral. A welder is a straight 240 device. Not a 120/240 so it don't need a neutral it needs two hots and a ground. I was trying to figure out what you were trying to say with your post.

    I had just explained that. When you quoted me and then said something about all these people including yourself being wrong or something I thought there was some problem with my explanation of why a 3 wire range outlet is different with a neutral whereas a welder outlet it would be a ground instead.

    I wasn't sure what your post was trying to say. That is what I posted they aren't the same. All 120/240 circuits need neutral and ground. So they can't be the same. Then you tell me a welder doesn't need a neutral. Nobody ever suggested a welder needed a neutral. A welder isn't 120/240.

    If you open a 3 wire range outlet and swap in a welder outlet and verify that the range neutral is in fact landed in a panel where all the grounds and neutral are bonded together than the new welding outlet can function and operate safely as designed. The old range neutral can almost certainly function as a equipment ground.

    Been doing residential, commercial and industrial electrical work for 40 years in Palm Beach, Broward and Dade, Florida counties. Very strict adherence to current codes. Last 10 years mostly spent doing large switch gear, transfer switch and generator replacement in high rise condominiums. Serious heavy duty chit.
    Last edited by danielplace; 1 Week Ago at 08:41 AM.

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