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Thread: Evaporative cooler for shop?

  1. #26
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    Re: Evaporative cooler for shop?

    The problem with AC is you need fresh air in a welding shop.
    A heat exchange can be installed for fresh air but more cost. This would great if most time humidity 75%.

    A swamp cooler will do this one step. The power cost drops.

    Dave

    Quote Originally Posted by William McCormick View Post
    How big is the shop? You can pick up a Goodman 5 ton 16 Seer split system for about three thousand, which will cool down a small shop nicely. You just put an AprilAir filter on the return and let the supply blow into the shop. Maybe make some adjustable louvers. But if you hang it high it will take care of the shop. You connect the two units with two copper pipes that you braze in, one perhaps 7/8" to 1 1/8" depending on the length of run and the other 3/8". And a piece of thermostat wire to connect the condenser and air handler. Both units require a separate 240 volt run to the panel for AC power. You need fifty amps for the condenser and fifteen amps for the air handler.

    You can get a mini-split but they do not recover well. They are quiet though you will need a good flaring tool to install the piping which would probably be 1/2" to 5/8" and 1/4". You will need a piece of control wire usually a three-conductor with a ground for power and communication. Usually, you have to buy the 250-foot length of it for about $250.

    This unit with three indoor units, the copper piping the indoor branch box, control wire, and exterior trough to house wire and piping is over 8,000. But it is nearly silent while running all out. The fans turn so slowly that they make no noise. To do it right you need a scale to weigh in the freon. You can save $1,500 and get a unit rated equally BTU-wise, it has just one exterior condensing fan and a much smaller condenser coil. This is one I just put in for a friend.

    Attachment 1728466

    Attachment 1728467

    Sincerely,

    William McCormick

  2. #27
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    Re: Evaporative cooler for shop?

    Quote Originally Posted by smithdoor View Post
    The problem with AC is you need fresh air in a welding shop.
    A heat exchange can be installed for fresh air but more cost. This would great if most time humidity 75%.

    A swamp cooler will do this one step. The power cost drops.

    Dave
    I do not know what type of fume hoods you guys have, but you can put a return can on the April Air filter and run an 8" duct to the outside world and pull in makeup air and treat it before it makes it to the room. That would supply about 200 cubic feet a minute of makeup air. Or just put an elbow facing the April Air filter and it will draw in about 200 cubic feet a minute with no return can, I have done that before.

    Sincerely,

    William McCormick
    If I wasn't so.....crazy, I wouldn't try to act normal, and you would be afraid.

  3. #28
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    Re: Evaporative cooler for shop?

    You can buy heat exchanges.

    But a fab shop and build one.
    There no more than thin tubing easy to fabrication in any weld shop.

    It simply just to us a evaporative cooling.
    I would use heat exchange where get very cold 🥶 (daytime temperature be low 32F.)
    This save money on fuel bills.

    Dave

    Quote Originally Posted by William McCormick View Post
    I do not know what type of fume hoods you guys have, but you can put a return can on the April Air filter and run an 8" duct to the outside world and pull in makeup air and treat it before it makes it to the room. That would supply about 200 cubic feet a minute of makeup air. Or just put an elbow facing the April Air filter and it will draw in about 200 cubic feet a minute with no return can, I have done that before.

    Sincerely,

    William McCormick

  4. #29
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    Re: Evaporative cooler for shop?

    Quote Originally Posted by smithdoor View Post
    You can buy heat exchanges.

    But a fab shop and build one.
    There no more than thin tubing easy to fabrication in any weld shop.

    It simply just to us a evaporative cooling.
    I would use heat exchange where get very cold �� (daytime temperature be low 32F.)
    This save money on fuel bills.

    Dave
    They use heat exchangers in Yoga studios, and in older dinners, they often use the heat of the stove hood in a dinner as a heat exchanger to treat the incoming air. I do not know if that is legal anymore though. In dinners, today most have a makeup air system and if done correctly it makes a cold dinner warm. It is the positive pressure the makeup air system creates in a building, that causes it to work. When entrance doors open, a little puff of hot air leaves the building but no cold air enters. Every inside wall is warm and even the outside walls stay warm and dry. That is what they should put in a yoga studio. Although the heat exchanger helps there is nothing like a powered makeup air system.

    With five tons of Air Conditioning 60,000 BTU's you could probably get away with 400 CFM of outside air being sucked into the unit, and still, cool a shop nicely. A five-ton unit supplies about 2,000 CFM of treated air a minute.

    Sincerely,

    William McCormick
    If I wasn't so.....crazy, I wouldn't try to act normal, and you would be afraid.

  5. #30
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    Re: Evaporative cooler for shop?

    This welding shop you need fresh air.
    If worry about the yoga build to code aka seal with aluminum tape.
    Any weld shop can do work to code.

    Dave

    Quote Originally Posted by William McCormick View Post
    They use heat exchangers in Yoga studios, and in older dinners, they often use the heat of the stove hood in a dinner as a heat exchanger to treat the incoming air. I do not know if that is legal anymore though. In dinners, today most have a makeup air system and if done correctly it makes a cold dinner warm. It is the positive pressure the makeup air system creates in a building, that causes it to work. When entrance doors open, a little puff of hot air leaves the building but no cold air enters. Every inside wall is warm and even the outside walls stay warm and dry. That is what they should put in a yoga studio. Although the heat exchanger helps there is nothing like a powered makeup air system.

    With five tons of Air Conditioning 60,000 BTU's you could probably get away with 400 CFM of outside air being sucked into the unit, and still, cool a shop nicely. A five-ton unit supplies about 2,000 CFM of treated air a minute.

    Sincerely,

    William McCormick

  6. #31
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    Re: Evaporative cooler for shop?

    Check out my bench vise website:
    http://mivise.com


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  7. #32
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    Re: Evaporative cooler for shop?

    Quote Originally Posted by walker View Post
    What is a laundrymate?
    I spelled it wrong its laundromat. Its a place were people that for one reason or another had to go to do there laundry. There are rows of washers and dryer that could be operated by using coins to pay to wash or dry clothing, bedding or other things made from cloth or other fibrous stuff. Because of all the dryers running making hot dry air it made its own environment in the building so the swamp cooler worked. My parents were not dirt poor but until i got older and was able to repair our washer and dryer we had to go to the laundromat when one or the other broke down. If there ever any thing you cant figure out on your own dont be afraid to ask.

  8. Likes William McCormick liked this post
  9. #33
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    Re: Evaporative cooler for shop?

    Quote Originally Posted by Old Doug View Post
    I spelled it wrong its laundromat. Its a place were people that for one reason or another had to go to do there laundry. There are rows of washers and dryer that could be operated by using coins to pay to wash or dry clothing, bedding or other things made from cloth or other fibrous stuff. Because of all the dryers running making hot dry air it made its own environment in the building so the swamp cooler worked. My parents were not dirt poor but until i got older and was able to repair our washer and dryer we had to go to the laundromat when one or the other broke down. If there ever any thing you cant figure out on your own dont be afraid to ask.
    Here in the North East, an evaporative cooler would be counterproductive. If anything we need dehumidification not more humidity in summer. Most people with AC units here end up with humidity around 55 to 65 percent it is God awful to be in that kind of atmosphere. There are a couple of good AC systems that monitor evaporator temperature and keep the evaporator near freezing to create dry cold air that just fills the room with dry air. Compared to other systems that are usually undersized here to help dehumidify. The ideal solution here is to put in an April Air dehumidifier, if that is done often AC is not needed for most of the spring. That is why I am suggesting the OP look into a large AC system with makeup air just a vent into the unit from outside. The unit can treat the 400 cubic feet of high humidity outdoor air which will cause it to expend energy dehumidifying the air but it will still generate a lot of cold dry air for the shop and 400 CFM of makeup air for the welding fume hoods. This will keep hot air from entering the shop each time a door is open if your fume hoods are not drawing much over 400 CFM.

    Sincerely,

    William McCormick
    If I wasn't so.....crazy, I wouldn't try to act normal, and you would be afraid.

  10. #34
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    Re: Evaporative cooler for shop?

    Where I live the evaporative cooling works great.
    In week we may have only 113F days just the start of summer .

    Dave

    Quote Originally Posted by William McCormick View Post
    Here in the North East, an evaporative cooler would be counterproductive. If anything we need dehumidification not more humidity in summer. Most people with AC units here end up with humidity around 55 to 65 percent it is God awful to be in that kind of atmosphere. There are a couple of good AC systems that monitor evaporator temperature and keep the evaporator near freezing to create dry cold air that just fills the room with dry air. Compared to other systems that are usually undersized here to help dehumidify. The ideal solution here is to put in an April Air dehumidifier, if that is done often AC is not needed for most of the spring. That is why I am suggesting the OP look into a large AC system with makeup air just a vent into the unit from outside. The unit can treat the 400 cubic feet of high humidity outdoor air which will cause it to expend energy dehumidifying the air but it will still generate a lot of cold dry air for the shop and 400 CFM of makeup air for the welding fume hoods. This will keep hot air from entering the shop each time a door is open if your fume hoods are not drawing much over 400 CFM.

    Sincerely,

    William McCormick

  11. #35
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    Re: Evaporative cooler for shop?

    Quote Originally Posted by smithdoor View Post
    This welding shop you need fresh air.
    If worry about the yoga build to code aka seal with aluminum tape.
    Any weld shop can do work to code.

    Dave
    Quote Originally Posted by smithdoor View Post
    This welding shop you need fresh air.
    If worry about the yoga build to code aka seal with aluminum tape.
    Any weld shop can do work to code.

    Dave

    The Yoga centers raise the temperature to 105 degrees and add high humidity, a lot of newcomers pass out in that. Your body when unable to cool off because of the 105 degrees and high humidity overheats because your sweat no longer cools you. The idea is to raise the body's metabolism and lose weight. But it just goes to show you what high humidity will do to you. Here in the North East humidity is a killer that even messes up Air Conditioning systems. But I could see the swamp coolers working in a dry hot climate. There are a few units that spray water over large air-cooled chambers to create cooling for buildings here this avoids mixing the cooling water with the air. There are problems with it like anything else though.

    They need such a large boiler in the Yogo centers to get to 105 degrees, to fire that amount of oil or gas cools the building too much as cold air is pulled into any opening. The air is taken in through open doors, cracks, and around the conduit, and plumbing pipes, makes some areas very cold, that is the reason they have the heat exchangers that supply warmed makeup air to the boilers, and for bathroom fans, and kitchen fans in the building.

    They often have no name-brand AC units that are made by York, Lenox, or Trane that really work well you could probably find a five-ton system for under $2,000 if you have a friend in the AC business. I will look around just to see.

    Sincerely,

    William McCormick
    Last edited by William McCormick; 06-14-2021 at 06:03 AM.
    If I wasn't so.....crazy, I wouldn't try to act normal, and you would be afraid.

  12. #36
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    Re: Evaporative cooler for shop?

    This is what he really needs to just be done with it. He also would need an April Air filter, that has very deep pleated filters that create a surface area many times that of a standard filter and an eight or ten-inch vent from the outside. The filters will last a year no problem. This unit will heat and cool the building rather quickly if it is around 1,400 square feet and the ceilings are 18 feet or under.

    https://www.amazon.com/Goodman-Seer-...3665383&sr=8-4

    Sincerely,

    William McCormick
    If I wasn't so.....crazy, I wouldn't try to act normal, and you would be afraid.

  13. #37
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    Re: Evaporative cooler for shop?

    You do know welding puts out a lot of btu's

    Dave


    Quote Originally Posted by William McCormick View Post
    This is what he really needs to just be done with it. He also would need an April Air filter, that has very deep pleated filters that create a surface area many times that of a standard filter and an eight or ten-inch vent from the outside. The filters will last a year no problem. This unit will heat and cool the building rather quickly if it is around 1,400 square feet and the ceilings are 18 feet or under.

    https://www.amazon.com/Goodman-Seer-...3665383&sr=8-4

    Sincerely,

    William McCormick

  14. #38
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    Re: Evaporative cooler for shop?

    Quote Originally Posted by smithdoor View Post
    You do know welding puts out a lot of btu's

    Dave
    The fume hood is going to extract that and the eight or ten-inch intake will bring in and treat 200 to 400 CFM of outdoor air which will be make-up air to compensate for the fume hood.


    Sincerely,

    William McCormick
    If I wasn't so.....crazy, I wouldn't try to act normal, and you would be afraid.

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