Dual 220 plug for welder/plasma cutter combo

[Sberry]

Its ok to reduce the wire to the outlets or on a circuit with a single outlet for a welder, but cant have multiple outlets overheat the wire to the breaker. Once there is more than 1 outlet you have to thermal protect the wire with the breaker.

A ready made 6-50 cord comes number 8 and that is so they can be used to full power 255 migs with high duty. Lets say a guy cut the end off and added 2 recepts and hooked 2 mig or 2 buzzers with draws north of 40 at the same time the breaker would trip way before overheating the wire, so would it with a number 10 and probably trip up a 12 with that much overload.
Point being that the code didnt allow such an unsafe exemption as many lay types for lack of better term might think. Dont see real spark masters pitching up a big worry about this as the diy types. They know that its far and rare a dedicated appliance would outright overheat a code compliant circuit and if it happened they would be all over it like cops and donuts.

[Sberry]

Personally I believe a 50 amp outlet is best served with the full 50 amps means it needs #6's

Nothing unsafe about that personal belief but it might not really add to safety. It might not hurt and it could help if the diy is hooking up loads other than welders.
Motorhome or range circuits have different wire require despite having the same breaker.
A lot of the codes and instruction manuals and fundamental electrical specs havnt changed for decades. Machine designed and invented when voltage was 220. AC buzzer, allowed 75 ft of 12. It wasnt overheating the wire at that distance, it was V drop effecting performance. At 220 getting close to 200 wide open. Operator starts to try to turn it up, he has to adjust it. Change wire to 10 or short to 25 ft and back to full power with little loss. Take same machine and hook to 240 and its really zippy. Even with same wire and amps drop by 10%, machine runs better today than when it was new.

[danielplace]

The one welder it may have been wired for may not be the welder that lives there forever. It is plug and cord. Anything could be plugged up to it.

Connect a Sychrowave 350 up with 50 amp cord because certainly that 50 amp outlet you installed has wire big enough to supply more than 50 for extended periods.

How's that gonna be if you used #10's and landed it on the same 50 amp breaker. Problem right.

Well had you wired it with #6's you would have no problem because wire is good for everything the breaker can deliver. Now you find out skimping on wire size is not such a great idea. Had you used #6's that Sychrowave can weld pretty darn good. Yea not going wide open but you would not have a wiring problem burning in your wall.

[Sberry]

Its going to trip the breaker and this is why they suggest qualified installers. So they do not put a 50 end on a machine doesnt come with it and not sposed to have it.
Kind of makes a guy wonder,,,, how come this hasnt been code changed in decades? Kind of wonder how come masters not on forums and how come we dont have fires from this doesnrt it especially since so many posts describe the possibility of the "fire in the wall"? Why dont we have incidents with this and how come the risk is usually brought up by lay people on this subject vs experts?

The nature of this is something I attempt to elude to. Its like a lot of stuff where we dont truly understand the fundamental principles,,, we know something about it but we truely dont understand it.
These forums, the electric ones too do a great job, so many more understand ground than they did before but often lack some real fundamental aspects of circuit design,,,, not real technical stuff but more the nature of how circuits are protected and why.
When we simply say use a 6 eveyrwhere not much is learned, in some cases this is not great as it can effect other aspects of a circuit, it can contribute to expense and leave work undone due to cost and complication and doesnt add to safety. It gives a warm feeling but doesnt halp and the simplistic thinking that the breaker only protects the wire in the wall is extremely faulty and can add another hazzard. It has led to the thinking that everything is all right and as we see on some of these leads to machines plugged in to circuits above 50A because,,,, the breaker only protects the wall wire so I can wire 50 welder outlets with 60 and even 80 breakers cause I used big enough wire,,,, and I really got to love the tag often added,,, "I know its safe cause I done it" or,,, it works fine which it will until it wont.

[Sberry]

I was in a house the other day and should have got a pic of the ragged old fuse box. I had an engineer and a helper, the engineer made a comment but the helper was in awe that the place hadnt burned and I really was more when we tore it out but a guy had to wonder how the 2 circuits which were chained on to and had 30 fuses installed hadnt caught fire.
ire was good enough up to a point to handle the combination of loads giving the problem. Wires after that not really overloaded. The overload likely was not from sustained use but combinations likely blew fuse before wire really had a chance to heat.
If a guy puts a 350 Synchro on a 50 with 12 wire its not going to overheat the wire, its going straight to trip.
We really do need real engineer here to elaborate on some of this,,, masters too to help some with the nature of this and basic circuit design. No one learns much from simple answer which is not complete and often incorrect and may even introduce other hazards which havnt been fully considered.

[Sberry]

A slightly interesting take on some of this is allowance for service entrance wire. With limited spaces and a couple other minor places the conductor sizing is allowed by calculated load, no true main and some conductors allowed to be reduced in other case but in branch circuits the same wire requires a smaller breaker. Shows up in MHF. There are several quad number 2 but they are not all the same,,, 2 2 2 4,,, 2 2 4 6 but the MHF was created for long runs for V drop where they upsize the grounds and the N where the service is fed from an existing service (subpanel) . Mobils require an outside disconnect making them subs for lack of better wording.

[Sberry]

I forget what the codes calls them but I do not believe it used the word subpanel anywhere, someone may correct this and I am all for that but this is another case where the common language is different from the code,,, same as 'neutral' wires. The correct term is service to a detached structure from an existing service. Not every white wire is a neutral, until they are they are grounded conductors.

[Sberry]

Size of the tombstone and distance from the box will determine the size of the breaker required.

We are kind of letting this member down. Its from another thread.