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Thread: What self shielded wire for AR 400

  1. #1
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    What self shielded wire for AR 400

    I'm welding a plate of AR 400 into the floor of an end dump

    Just wanted to know what self shielded wire size and number I should use.
    It's all lap joint with some big dents in the old floor so there are some big holes to fill.
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    Re: What self shielded wire for AR 400

    I like Hobart HB-21. Should do fine for that. At least 1/16" wire.

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    Re: What self shielded wire for AR 400

    Weird this is from Lincoln Asia but it says use a low hydrogen consumable. Something like Lincoln NR232/NR233 would be a better choice because it's closer to 7018 stick rods. A little preheat so it's fairly warm to the touch is a good idea too.

    https://www.lincolnelectric.com/en-s...te-detail.aspx

    https://www.lincolnelectric.com/asse...2/c3200012.pdf
    Last edited by Welder Dave; 07-03-2021 at 11:00 PM.

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    Re: What self shielded wire for AR 400

    I haven't noticed any Hobart products in the welding supply stores locally. I think I'm limited to esab praxair products and blue shield.

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    Re: What self shielded wire for AR 400

    Quote Originally Posted by bcguide View Post
    I haven't noticed any Hobart products in the welding supply stores locally. I think I'm limited to esab praxair products and blue shield.
    I've recently spent a fair bit of time researching what self shield wires for what applications as well.

    What I've come up with is what you want to aim for is an E71T-8 wire like lincoln NR 232/233 or ESAB Coreshield 8, it's got the most ductile deposit which should help welded AR plate not having the welds crack, but wire size for most -8 wires start 1/16th diameter so need more welder to run it, no idea what setup your running.

    next best in E71TG-G which as far as I can find lincoln is the only company that makes it as NR212, then an E71T-11 like ESAB coreshield 11 or NR211.

    Avoid anything that is designated at E71T-GS (ESAB coreshield 15 and the like), it's good for single pass only.

    -GS wires have alot of aluminium for high deposition rates, but more than one pass results in a brittle weld because of it, E71TG-G and E71T-11 have maximum plate thickness limitations for the same reason of excess aluminium in the weld metal after multiple layers of weld as well, you can see that on ESAB's spec sheets for the different wires, they're E71T-GS (coreshield 15) has 2% aluminium, they're E71T-11 (coreshield 11) has 1.1% and they're E71T-8 (coreshield 8) has 0.51%

    I ended up settling on ESAB coreshield 11 in .045 for myself as i'm running a 180 amp machine running off of a generator, if i had more machine id go with coreshield 8 in 1/16 instead, and Lincoln products in my country are stupid expensive so NR212 in .045 is out for that reason.
    Last edited by ttoks; 07-04-2021 at 02:38 AM.

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    Re: What self shielded wire for AR 400

    E71T-11 is kind of a general purpose wire and requires a lot of passes to meet the AWS specs. For AR400 I think E71-T8 is a much better choice. If you're using AR400 I would think most people would have an adequate machine to run 1/16".

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    Re: What self shielded wire for AR 400

    I think I am going to finish this job with 7018, with luck it will be done tomorrow. Would an .045 wire work? I don't usally weld a lot of thicker steel and think I would have more use for the smaller wire.
    Im using a miller regency with a 22a wire feeder.
    Lincoln 350mp
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    miller syncro wave 300

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    Re: What self shielded wire for AR 400

    Quote Originally Posted by bcguide View Post
    I think I am going to finish this job with 7018, with luck it will be done tomorrow. Would an .045 wire work? I don't usually weld a lot of thicker steel and think I would have more use for the smaller wire.
    Im using a miller regency with a 22a wire feeder.
    .045 will do it no worries, deposition rate will be lower than with 1/16 but will still be much faster than 7018, I'm running at 21.5 volts and 235 IPM which comes out to about 160-170 amps with the .045 ESAB coreshield 11.

    Go for lincoln NR212 if you can, but if you cant get it any E71T-11 wire like coreshield 11, Lincoln NR211mp, hobart fabshield 21b ect will work.
    Last edited by ttoks; 07-05-2021 at 02:32 AM.

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    Re: What self shielded wire for AR 400

    Great thanks gentlemen

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    Re: What self shielded wire for AR 400

    Curious why the T-8 wire doesn't come in .045"? I think using the T-11 wire especially, preheat would be a good idea.

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    Re: What self shielded wire for AR 400

    Quote Originally Posted by Welder Dave View Post
    Curious why the T-8 wire doesn't come in .045"? I think using the T-11 wire especially, preheat would be a good idea.
    I wonder the same thing, I'm thinking it's because generally anyone spending the money on a higher spec wire is usually doing so because they have to to meet some job spec or government requirements and they're going to have the equipment to run bigger wires, the home hobbiest with they're small machines probably won't buy enough T8 in .045 to justify the RnD and production capital to get it set up.

    I've ran into the same problem trying to find .035 dual shield.

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    Re: What self shielded wire for AR 400

    Quote Originally Posted by ttoks View Post
    I wonder the same thing, I'm thinking it's because generally anyone spending the money on a higher spec wire is usually doing so because they have to to meet some job spec or government requirements and they're going to have the equipment to run bigger wires, the home hobbiest with they're small machines probably won't buy enough T8 in .045 to justify the RnD and production capital to get it set up.

    I've ran into the same problem trying to find .035 dual shield.
    Cost I'm sure is part of it but for structural .068 in self shielded was approved smaller sizes weren't.

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    Re: What self shielded wire for AR 400

    if you haven't done the job at this time, look up Popeye an old miner. He just finished a couple end dumps.

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    Re: What self shielded wire for AR 400

    I wonder if the wire to flux ratio changes with using smaller than 1/16" (or .068") wire? That might be why they don't make some flux-core in smaller sizes.

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