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Thread: Unofficial break test - comments wanted

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    Unofficial break test - comments wanted

    I'm trying my Titanium flux 125 out on some 1/4" material. I welded up a filet and then put it in the press. It broke fairly easily, but the break seems to be in the metal and not the weld. I maxed the machine out with .030 NR-211. It seemed to burn in nice and hot. What are your opinions on this failure? Metal or the weld? Before I get told to buy a bigger welder. I have several already. I'm just trying to find the limits of this little guy.

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    Re: Unofficial break test - comments wanted

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark_D View Post
    I'm trying my Titanium flux 125 out on some 1/4" material. I welded up a filet and then put it in the press. It broke fairly easily, but the break seems to be in the metal and not the weld. I maxed the machine out with .030 NR-211. It seemed to burn in nice and hot. What are your opinions on this failure? Metal or the weld? Before I get told to buy a bigger welder. I have several already. I'm just trying to find the limits of this little guy.

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    The problem with using scrap for a test like that is not knowing what material you have. That looks like a chunk of leaf spring and that would probably explain that type of break. Broke right at the edge of the weld? Find some mild steel to start with.

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    Re: Unofficial break test - comments wanted

    I can confirm this is mild steel.

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    Re: Unofficial break test - comments wanted

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark_D View Post
    I can confirm this is mild steel.

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    Just how? I've been welding heavy equipment back together for 40+ years and have never seen mild break like that.

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    Re: Unofficial break test - comments wanted

    Because I was the one that cut it off. I was literally there.

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    Re: Unofficial break test - comments wanted

    Not fighting with you, just saying I have never seen mild break like that unless it was flex fatigue. Do you have more to try with a 7018 or ERS 70 wire?
    I once had a guy give me a bunch of random plates that turned out to be cast iron. I sold it off to guys that wanted it for camping griddles.

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    Re: Unofficial break test - comments wanted

    It came out of an old piece of angle. I've got some fresh 2"x1/4" flat stock I'm going to try next. If I can get the flux core welder to break I'm going to then do a comparison with 7018 as well as solid wire mig. My gut feeling is that this little flux core unit is going to hold it together pretty well. The t11 wire will probably be the weak point.

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    Re: Unofficial break test - comments wanted

    Mark, I vote metal failure, not weld.

    Grab a different piece of steel, run a few more tests and see if same results. Post pictures.
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    Re: Unofficial break test - comments wanted

    the break started at that huge inviting crater, then went to the side of weld , and then ran even farther/away form welds side than id expect for mild. looking at it, if noone hadnt said anything, my guess would be it wasnt mild also . it may be, but i think something else might be going on
    Last edited by 123weld; 07-20-2021 at 10:10 PM.

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    Re: Unofficial break test - comments wanted

    I'd do some more test's as well, that is a failure in the base metal for sure, but its hard to tell if its due to embrittlement of the HAZ from the welding or not but that is the direction I'd be going in looking at how it seems to have failed, it doesn't look like the base metal yielded much at all before breaking which is what I'd expect to see on mild steel.

    maybe do some more tests, do one with 7018 and one with solid wire with the 210MP and a few more with the NR211MP and compare side by side and see, really you want to try and get the weld to break in the meld zon so you can get a peak at the root, I might even do a cut and etch as well if you have something to develop it with, naval jelly or pickling paste for stainless or something similar, i've heard even oven cleaner can work okay, just takes a while to show up the weld nugget.

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    Re: Unofficial break test - comments wanted

    One thing I didn't mention is that the metal was still warm when I put it in the press. Would this have a huge effect on the test?

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    Re: Unofficial break test - comments wanted

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark_D View Post
    One thing I didn't mention is that the metal was still warm when I put it in the press. Would this have a huge effect on the test?

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    not massively, if anything it would have encouraged the base metal to bend even more.

    you'd be surprised by the T-11 wire as well, its not weaker per say than 7018, the tensile strength is actually higher, but it is more brittle and more prone to cracking, so for a test like this where it's one loading (rather than cyclical loading) i wouldn't expect it to do any worth than 7018.

    It will be more sensitive to stress riser's like that nice crater you left on the first test though because it's more brittle, so keep that in mind on the next one.

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    Re: Unofficial break test - comments wanted

    Quote Originally Posted by ttoks View Post
    not massively, if anything it would have encouraged the base metal to bend even more.

    you'd be surprised by the T-11 wire as well, its not weaker per say than 7018, the tensile strength is actually higher, but it is more brittle and more prone to cracking, so for a test like this where it's one loading (rather than cyclical loading) i wouldn't expect it to do any worth than 7018.

    It will be more sensitive to stress riser's like that nice crater you left on the first test though because it's more brittle, so keep that in mind on the next one.
    I knew someone was going to call me out on the crater. Lol

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    Re: Unofficial break test - comments wanted

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark_D View Post
    I knew someone was going to call me out on the crater. Lol

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    To be fair 123weld beat me to it

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    Re: Unofficial break test - comments wanted

    On a bright note this little inverter flux machine seems to be burning in hot. I do believe this will be my new go-to machine for small repairs. It runs so smooth with .030 NR-211MP. Almost no spatter at all.

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    Re: Unofficial break test - comments wanted

    Everyone will a comment.
    The Good the Bad and the Ugly.

    You doing a good job by testing.
    If read some of my post's you find a 120 volt welder not up to the job.
    I have own a Miller and a Chinese 120 volt welder and want to launch both to space. Then sold the welders to the next #%#.

    Dave

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark_D View Post
    I'm trying my Titanium flux 125 out on some 1/4" material. I welded up a filet and then put it in the press. It broke fairly easily, but the break seems to be in the metal and not the weld. I maxed the machine out with .030 NR-211. It seemed to burn in nice and hot. What are your opinions on this failure? Metal or the weld? Before I get told to buy a bigger welder. I have several already. I'm just trying to find the limits of this little guy.

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    Last edited by smithdoor; 07-21-2021 at 12:09 AM.

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    Re: Unofficial break test - comments wanted

    Quote Originally Posted by smithdoor View Post
    Everyone will a comment.
    The Good the Bad and the Ugly.

    You doing a good job by testing.
    If read some post you find a 120 volt welder is a 120 volt welder just not up to the job.

    Dave
    That's why I added the disclaimer. I have a 300 amp engine drive and a 210 amp wire welder. I understand why they rate this flux machine at 3/16". However I believe a skilled hand can easily penetrate 1/4" with this machine and that's why I'm doing the testing. I've never been so surprisingly impressed with a tool this much before. It really is that good.

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    Re: Unofficial break test - comments wanted

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark_D View Post
    That's why I added the disclaimer. I have a 300 amp engine drive
    Turn the SAME parts around, and weld them with a stick of 7018, and the engine drive welder,, then break it again,,

    If the break is similar, the first welder did a GREAT job,,

    No analysis needed,, if the 305 is a great welder, and both welds are similar,, the little welder is great,,

    Comparison is the best analysis, when you do not know for sure what the metal is,,,

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    Re: Unofficial break test - comments wanted

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark_D View Post
    One thing I didn't mention is that the metal was still warm when I put it in the press. Would this have a huge effect on the test?

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    Yes, the heat could make a difference. Judging by the pic. and not seeing the piece before bending, it looks like it was fairly hot when you bent it and/or the bending created more heat. It turned blue which means it was around 575 deg's. Pieces break differently at different temperatures. I forget the temp. ( I think it was around 600 deg.) but in school we would bend 6010 welds and they would break open showing the grain structure of the weld. It only worked with 6010 and Lincoln rods worked better than Hobart rods. It was a good way to see how sound your welds were in the middle. It looks like it was trying to bend by the mill scale flaking but didn't which leads me to believe it is some kind of high carbon steel, maybe spring steel like others have mentioned. That it didn't break along the edge of the weld also points to it being something other than mild steel. Get some known mild steel if you want to conduct break tests or compare different filler metals. CEP did a bunch of break tests with stick electrodes and MIG.
    Last edited by Welder Dave; 07-21-2021 at 05:08 PM.

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    Re: Unofficial break test - comments wanted

    If you are doing research this test would be inconclusive Try a different.piece of metal. Did you quench it is dry ice?

    Looks suspect. Present another example.

    How old is the Angle. Many years ago i did a repair on a metal deck. The deck girder was broken similar to that. No sign of bending just a glass like break in a 12 inch wide C-channel. It was some version of cast.

    Weld looks fine? Try different material. Do spark test and compare to new mild steel.

    The weld looks alright. But you have not tested it.
    Last edited by tapwelder; 07-21-2021 at 06:16 PM.

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    Re: Unofficial break test - comments wanted

    I had a century 110 that ran awesomely on 120v and 30 amp input. What amperage input are you using?

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    Re: Unofficial break test - comments wanted

    Quote Originally Posted by tapwelder View Post
    I had a century 110 that ran awesomely on 120v and 30 amp input. What amperage input are you using?
    I've been running it on a dedicated 20 amp circuit. I have not had any problems with blowing breakers. I want to try it on my 3000 watt inverter generator next. I still can't get over how smooth the arc is.

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    Re: Unofficial break test - comments wanted

    I redid the test with a fresh piece of 3/16" flat stock. I thought I had 1/4 but it was only 3/16". I allowed it to cool about 10 minutes before putting it in the press. Same result....the metal broke fairly easily but the weld held. I'm very confused by this. I don't know why this metal is so brittle. Name:  20210721_182713.jpg
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    Re: Unofficial break test - comments wanted

    Nothing wrong with that weld. Get real steel and bend towards the weld. That way is should break through the weld and you can examine the penetration. If it bends all the way you have an excellent weld. That is how AWS certified weld inspectors do a bend/break test.
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    Re: Unofficial break test - comments wanted

    It should also be noted I had a failure of some leaf spring shackle mounts on a trailer several years ago. Same story, the weld held but the shackle mount ripped out just like this. Could this be something the flux core wire is doing to the steel?

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