Anybody Pull Liner With Seized Piston Inside?

[farmersammm]

Engine has wet liners, but I don't know how much space there is between the liner, and block/cooling gallery. If there's space, I'll maybe blow through the liner with plasma, and put a rod in the holes to pull it from the top. Don't care to jack it out from the bottom if I don't have to.

Entire stinkin' front axle has to come off to remove the crankcase. Lovely.

Same thing happened to the first Allis some time ago. Now I have two identical paperweights.

They start to run like they're running out of fuel, then seize up. This one still barely turns, but the other one can't be turned with the starter.

Both engines started stumbling before they went, blowing heavy black smoke for short periods. Something, a hunch I guess, tells me it isn't the crank.

[rexcormack]

Doesn't do you any good now but it sounds like your original problem was a injector pump issue.

Since the piston is toast anyway just bust it up with an air chisel.

My machine shop buddy would cut a groove in the liner from top to bottom.

Sorry, that's all I got.

[12V71]

You will still have to remove the pan to get at the rod bolts/nuts. I'll get a pic of my liner puller up later it's all done from the topside.
First thing I would do is drain the oil into a clean pan and check for metal shavings, coppery stuff is bearings. Then cut the oil filters open and look for more metal. This could be a spun main bearing. Also see if the crank has any end play,. 015 to 025 should be normal. If it wont move, again maybe a bearing problem.

[MinnesotaDave]

You will still have to remove the pan to get at the rod bolts/nuts. I'll get a pic of my liner puller up later it's all done from the topside.
First thing I would do is drain the oil into a clean pan and check for metal shavings, coppery stuff is bearings. Then cut the oil filters open and look for more metal. This could be a spun main bearing. Also see if the crank has any end play,. 015 to 025 should be normal. If it wont move, again maybe a bearing problem.

I agree - I'd check all the bearings first.

Just loosening the mains may be enough to find the problem and the crank will start turning again.

[farmersammm]

Soon as I eat lunch, it's out to the shop to make a set of adapters for the towbar, so I can get the POS home. We have a guy that's gonna show up when we need air to inflate that rear tire,, my compressor runs off the welder for electricity, and the welder is down.

[MinnesotaDave]

I worked on a Lincoln Towncar once that had engine problems.

When I dropped the pan I saw 4 caps all with a number 2 stamped on them.
Someone in a junkyard went through and replaced parts with used ones (including bearings) that allowed it to run, but it started tapping after a month.

Bearings were mismatched and the scoring on the crank had been clumsily filed off in some areas as well...

[MinnesotaDave]

Soon as I eat lunch, it's out to the shop to make a set of adapters for the towbar, so I can get the POS home. We have a guy that's gonna show up when we need air to inflate that rear tire,, my compressor runs off the welder for electricity, and the welder is down.

May want to keep an eye out for a wheelbarrow engine drive compressor. Sometimes they are very cheap - mine was about $200 as I recall.

I removed the factory lines (under 1/4" ID for nail guns mostly) and plumbed in a high flow regulator right to a tank port.
I also put an air outlet on another tank port for full available flow.

[M J D]

If the piston is down in the bore a ways I would make up a piece of steel with a 3/4" or so hole dead center to fit the bore. Weld that piece inside the bore on the sleeve. After getting the connecting rod cap off attach your bridge and threaded rod to pull the sleeve. The heat from the weld should cause the sleeve to shrink and break it's bond at the top of the block. You could try breaking up the piston as mentioned but you will still have issues getting the wrist pin busted out of the piston.

[12V71]

I've used that trick on liners that had a piston welded into them, normally I just welded a nut in the center of the plate. All my liner pulling stuff is 7/8" fine thread.

[12V71]

Engine has wet liners, but I don't know how much space there is between the liner, and block/cooling gallery. If there's space, I'll maybe blow through the liner with plasma, and put a rod in the holes to pull it from the top. Don't care to jack it out from the bottom if I don't have to.

Entire stinkin' front axle has to come off to remove the crankcase. Lovely.

Same thing happened to the first Allis some time ago. Now I have two identical paperweights.

They start to run like they're running out of fuel, then seize up. This one still barely turns, but the other one can't be turned with the starter.

Both engines started stumbling before they went, blowing heavy black smoke for short periods. Something, a hunch I guess, tells me it isn't the crank.

I wouldn't be to sure about the crank, Normally a piston won't stick unless the engines is at maximum horsepower with extra fuel (I.E. hopped up trucks) most aluminum pistons just gall to h$ll and foul the rings leading to a huge blowby problem. I had a 12V71 Detroit on a drill rig that would run fine for a few minutes, then slowly load up with massive black smoke and then stall. Spun main bearing, had to build up an entirely new engine from a core block.

[farmersammm]

That's just what I wanted to hear

I was so disgusted last night, I looked at some Deere's online. Something in the 90-100hp range. I just about fell out of my chair!!! I simply can't afford even a well used one.

When the first Allis seized, I talked to a salvage guy, forget what state he was in.............but he could set me up with a used engine for around 3K. The only problem being, the 301cd motor was also used in combines..............If it came from a combine, it won't fit the tractors. He said he needs the engine serial number to find a motor that would actually fit the tractor. I forget what state it was....somewhere in the Midwest. But worth it for a motor I guess.

Your symptoms sound very like what happened to both tractors. Started the last time ok, then restarts during the day got progressively harder (slow cranking), and then it finally quit. Allis #1 is completely seized, Allis #2 stil turns over, but like molasses. I quit after a few seconds, and let it be.

The one that seized yesterday was running strange for about 3 days. Acted like it wasn't getting any fuel. Loping idle, with occasional large cloud of black smoke.

I'd wager that neither tractor ever had a valve cover lifted in the 50ish years they've been around. God only knows how many hours they have on them. Hell.......the Oliver is brushing up against 7000hrs. I believe it was built in 1964. Still runs good, but................................. Cleanest oil I've ever seen on a diesel, just starting to show some soot the last year or so. Only thing I've had to do to the Perkins is replace a piston, rings, pin, and liner, when I broke a ring and scored the liner. That was TWENTY years ago. The Oliver is strictly a hay tractor these days.

[farmersammm]

Was a time, you could simply go out and buy another tractor for about 4-5K. These were not popular tractors UNTIL NOW. The market is hot for the old tractors that can still be fixed without all the computer BS. There's a few cheap 190XT's out there, but they're all up North. Saw one listed for TEN GRAND...........new paint Ad says it has 2500 original hrs if I recall...........Hell, might be legit.

[12V71]

That's just what I wanted to hear

I was so disgusted last night, I looked at some Deere's online. Something in the 90-100hp range. I just about fell out of my chair!!! I simply can't afford even a well used one.

When the first Allis seized, I talked to a salvage guy, forget what state he was in.............but he could set me up with a used engine for around 3K. The only problem being, the 301cd motor was also used in combines..............If it came from a combine, it won't fit the tractors. He said he needs the engine serial number to find a motor that would actually fit the tractor. I forget what state it was....somewhere in the Midwest. But worth it for a motor I guess.

Your symptoms sound very like what happened to both tractors. Started the last time ok, then restarts during the day got progressively harder (slow cranking), and then it finally quit. Allis #1 is completely seized, Allis #2 stil turns over, but like molasses. I quit after a few seconds, and let it be.

The one that seized yesterday was running strange for about 3 days. Acted like it wasn't getting any fuel. Loping idle, with occasional large cloud of black smoke.

I'd wager that neither tractor ever had a valve cover lifted in the 50ish years they've been around. God only knows how many hours they have on them. Hell.......the Oliver is brushing up against 7000hrs. I believe it was built in 1964. Still runs good, but................................. Cleanest oil I've ever seen on a diesel, just starting to show some soot the last year or so. Only thing I've had to do to the Perkins is replace a piston, rings, pin, and liner, when I broke a ring and scored the liner. That was TWENTY years ago. The Oliver is strictly a hay tractor these days.

Sorry man, just going by my experiences.

[Xsbank]

I did a wet-sleeve engine once and once you got the head off, you just turned the crank and the sleeves popped out with the pistons. Then you undid the crank bearing and out it came. You would have to make a plate to keep the good sleeves in place when you turned the crank but the untethered one should pop.

I hope I understood your dilemma and I’m not teaching you how to suck eggs…?

[farmersammm]

If the LN was in good condition (never got around to putting the new hood on), I'd run up and snag this one https://www.purplewave.com/auction/2...Tractor-Kansas

Truck needs front tires, and new hood and inside fender skirts (blowout when I was hauling hay out of Texas back in 2012). Haven't even fired it up in years. Probably ok, but needs oil pressure put to it before it even gets cranked. Was a tough old bird. Wonderful running 6-71, 10spd, single axle. Used as a backup to the cabover, when the cabover needed work.

[farmersammm]

I'd bet that Massey has the same motor as the Oliver. Perkins is almost indestructible. It looks the same as the Oliver.

[12V71]

I did a wet-sleeve engine once and once you got the head off, you just turned the crank and the sleeves popped out with the pistons. Then you undid the crank bearing and out it came. You would have to make a plate to keep the good sleeves in place when you turned the crank but the untethered one should pop.

I hope I understood your dilemma and I’m not teaching you how to suck eggs…?

Really? after countless engine overhauls I have never been that lucky. Had a 3412 Cat that was severely overheated gluing the liner o-rings in place that took a 20 ton hollow ram cylinder on my puller to pop those liners loose. Even Detroits with wet liners need a fair amount of persuasion to pop them.

[123weld]

I worked on a Lincoln Towncar once that had engine problems.

When I dropped the pan I saw 4 caps all with a number 2 stamped on them.
Someone in a junkyard went through and replaced parts with used ones (including bearings) that allowed it to run, but it started tapping after a month.

Bearings were mismatched and the scoring on the crank had been clumsily filed off in some areas as well...

them things were a boat. late 70's - maybe early 80's were the last of the last real cars, as i see it. i was more into cadillacs (had 2), lincolns ride was just a lil too spongy for my taste. first complete rebuild i ever did, was a 472 cad. i miss them old cars, get in, pull that big door closed, tilt that wheel in ur lap, and all the room u need. all that chrome/wire wheels, i miss that

[12V71]

them things were a boat. late 70's - maybe early 80's were the last of the last real cars, as i see it. i was more into cadillacs (had 2), lincolns ride was just a lil too spongy for my taste. first complete rebuild i ever did, was a 472 cad. i miss them old cars, get in, pull that big door closed, tilt that wheel in ur lap, and all the room u need. all that chrome/wire wheels, i miss that

A buddy has a giant Lincoln 4 door (77-78ish) with 60K original miles, that thing just seems to float down the road. Almost makes my truck loving azz carsick.

[farmersammm]

You could get in, and out, of a Crown Vic........................these crappy little new cars are like a sardine can.

Only thing with any room is a pickup truck.....but they're making them nowdays so that you need a ladder to get in and out of them.

I miss the good ol' bench seats. Bucket seats are like sitting in a prison.

[12V71]

Was a time, you could simply go out and buy another tractor for about 4-5K. These were not popular tractors UNTIL NOW. The market is hot for the old tractors that can still be fixed without all the computer BS. There's a few cheap 190XT's out there, but they're all up North. Saw one listed for TEN GRAND...........new paint Ad says it has 2500 original hrs if I recall...........Hell, might be legit.

Locally there was a really nice 966 Farmall with a Loader with a 7' bucket for $10,500. IIRC the hours were around 7K.

[bassboy1]

If the LN was in good condition (never got around to putting the new hood on), I'd run up and snag this one https://www.purplewave.com/auction/2...Tractor-Kansas

Truck needs front tires, and new hood and inside fender skirts (blowout when I was hauling hay out of Texas back in 2012). Haven't even fired it up in years. Probably ok, but needs oil pressure put to it before it even gets cranked. Was a tough old bird. Wonderful running 6-71, 10spd, single axle. Used as a backup to the cabover, when the cabover needed work.

If the only thing stopping you from getting it is a non running truck, wouldn't it make sense to just pay someone to bring that tractor down, if it solves the problem?

[shortfuse]

[QUOTE=farmersammm;8822867]
Only thing with any room is a pickup truck.....but they're making them nowdays so that you need a ladder to get in and out of them./QUOTE]

And, a college degree in computer science to read and use the dang dashboard stuff.........

Heck, some of them even advertise they'll electrify your house in case of a power failure...I GOTTA SEE THAT! (Hope they use a power disconnect...that ain't shown in the commercials. Wonder how many people have electrified the grid using those trucks!!!)

[whtbaron]

Think green. You'll only cry once.

[farmersammm]

If the only thing stopping you from getting it is a non running truck, wouldn't it make sense to just pay someone to bring that tractor down, if it solves the problem?

It's a moot point now............

Not worth what it's going for IMHO. It's at a price now, that's equivalent to two used motors for the Allis's I have.

It might go as high as 10,000 being as it has a loader on it.