Lincwelder DC 180 fires 1 crank but carb is out of wack & so is the governor Help

[John Baptist]

So my first thread i put in "introduce yourself" by mistake Oops Sorry: But I Got The Wisconson TFD Firing just like when i got it last month 1 crank & Vroom the Wilco Magneto is a beast! but as it's cleared it's throat & ungunked itself, the idle was very high but it's creeped up Higher & it stinks like it's rich. I tried to lower the idle via idle screw but it will not sit down & fully return if i try to make it the governor says nope & revs itself high & levels off, I know now I need to adjust that governor to throttle rod but i can't tell which way longer or shorter?... the thing sits at half throttle till it starts then it rotates down on it's own immediately & I just don't understand if i pull that cotter pin and spin it, do I make it shorter or longer? It's going to destroy itself, It welds but I don't dare to weld with it till it has a base tune (I'm just learning carbs) it does seem like it must have had starting issues & they turned the idle up & they broke the Throttle control / twist lock & the chain rusted off I bought New & fixed both....when i get it just a little below it's current idle it bogs If i leave it it runs great & i can rev it a little but there isn't much left in the throttle to go, Help wanted.

[SquirmyPug]

Have you torn apart the carburetor and cleaned it really well? They usually have some pretty small holes that can get stuff stuck in them so make sure they have all been cleared out. Also make sure you're getting a good spark,
I would replace the plugs because they are cheap and easy. How are you setting idle speed?

[mla2ofus]

I PMed him for his email add and I'll send him the engine manual.

[John Baptist]

Have you torn apart the carburetor and cleaned it really well? They usually have some pretty small holes that can get stuff stuck in them so make sure they have all been cleared out. Also make sure you're getting a good spark,
I would replace the plugs because they are cheap and easy. How are you setting idle speed?

I tried to use the idle screw but the rod from the throttle to the governor is set too short or too long? I don't know which way to turn it so when i back down the idle screw and it's running it fully returns to a lower idle, that 2 millimetres if i even press it to full return the governor pulls it back higher, it looks like they took it off & screwed it way in to hold a higher idle?( lots of threads used) I have not torn the carb down yet just carb sprayed it. the Wilco magneto shoots huge blue sparks off the wire ends if i pull them, I still need to pull the spark plugs & check them & check compression

[John Baptist]

I PMed him for his email add and I'll send him the engine manual.

I really appreciate that! I've found a few but they are either a parts manual no settings/perimeters for the engine, so i could rebuild the entire engine but i don't even see the RPM's or I have a digital manual for the welder (maybe that says the RPM's?) but that welder manual online is probably 12 years it's senior this is not a 1962 model it's a green face the oldest I think? I'm buying a cheap RPM meter ASAP. I've read now 2400 to 2600 is the high RPM range but it sounds like that's it's improperly adjusted idle. i know jokers will have a dirty carb or need a carb rebuild or break the throttle which they did and just crank up the idle which ruins the engine, but I can find almost all the parts so i'll fix it!

[CAVEMANN]

You need to get a carb kit so you have new parts, then pull the carb, disassemble it and soak it lacquer thinner or GOOD carb cleaner, use a set of torch tip cleaners or a 61-80 number drill set with a pin vise to make sure all the tiny fuel passages and air bleeds are clean and open, this must be verified with clean air and a needle set of blow gun tips if you can find them, I did the carb on a Yamaha ATV a few years ago & it too several removals, cleanigs and reinstallations before I got it clean, if you can find a new/rebuilt carb it may be worth it, the carb I did was not available. Check AMAZON for replacements.

[John Baptist]

You need to get a carb kit so you have new parts, then pull the carb, disassemble it and soak it lacquer thinner or GOOD carb cleaner, use a set of torch tip cleaners or a 61-80 number drill set with a pin vise to make sure all the tiny fuel passages and air bleeds are clean and open, this must be verified with clean air and a needle set of blow gun tips if you can find them, I did the carb on a Yamaha ATV a few years ago & it too several removals, cleanigs and reinstallations before I got it clean, if you can find a new/rebuilt carb it may be worth it, the carb I did was not available. Check AMAZON for replacements.

Yeah I was thinking I need the kit first JIC something tears/breaks, plus it's open why not rebuild it, It's an old Zenith first number "L48J" & the longer number on the riveted circular tag is "10695 & last digit is a "C" or a "0" (can't read it) I think the kits are on Ebay.

[mla2ofus]

That carb is pretty simple. As long as the float and needle and seat are OK it probably doesn't need a kit. Mine was varnished when I got and soaked it overnite in seafoam and it cleaned up nice and worked fine ever since.
Does the data tag on the generator/welder have the RPM stamped on it?

[J. D.]

A couple of things, yes clean your carb. On that tach, you might want to go with a non contact tach. I bought one of the cheap tachs that pick up the trigger pulse from the spark plug wire and it simply will not work correctly with that magnito, it works great on lawn mowers so it is not a complete loss. As you did not show the work end of the welder I can't tell if you have a data plate there or not, but on my 1954 180 DC AS the data plate describes approximate amps settings at different speeds as the rpm's control the amps. How ever with out any tach it is always an approximate start point and adjust the throttle as needed. I am not sure which manual you have but if you need something more I do have a Wisconsin repair manual that covers the TJD, THD, TH that I could email you if you need it. Good luck with your welder and I hope you enjoy using it as much as I do mine.

[John Baptist]

That carb is pretty simple. As long as the float and needle and seat are OK it probably doesn't need a kit. Mine was varnished when I got and soaked it overnite in seafoam and it cleaned up nice and worked fine ever since.
Does the data tag on the generator/welder have the RPM stamped on it?

Maybe It has all it's plates, it should right? Ok sea foam otherwise a kit is like $14 it seems they switched my carb to a newer one that also went on the v4's My original carb kit would be $40

[John Baptist]

A couple of things, yes clean your carb. On that tach, you might want to go with a non contact tach. I bought one of the cheap tachs that pick up the trigger pulse from the spark plug wire and it simply will not work correctly with that magnito, it works great on lawn mowers so it is not a complete loss. As you did not show the work end of the welder I can't tell if you have a data plate there or not, but on my 1954 180 DC AS the data plate describes approximate amps settings at different speeds as the rpm's control the amps. How ever with out any tach it is always an approximate start point and adjust the throttle as needed. I am not sure which manual you have but if you need something more I do have a Wisconsin repair manual that covers the TJD, THD, TH that I could email you if you need it. Good luck with your welder and I hope you enjoy using it as much as I do mine.

Thank you yes i was going to buy a touchless tach/ rpm meter just for tuning and setting my stops on the throttle but sadly most of my green faceplate is worn off but i have a picture of one somewhere! Thank you I can't believe i missed that!! probably because i only have the picture & the black replacement plates online are different. My engine is a TFD with Stellite valves & seats

[John Baptist]

I had 2 of these on my throttle one was for high idle & one was moved all the way to the end of the throttle shaft I suspect as an indicator for A/B/C ranges? I have the little indicator plate & angel bracket for mine, one the set screw was stripped I used a dremel & a cutting wheel to remove it but they are called "Shaft collars with a set screw" I had one in the garage same inner diameter i think it was 1/4in https://www.grainger.com/product/CLI...-Collar-29NW41

[SquirmyPug]

I tried to use the idle screw but the rod from the throttle to the governor is set too short or too long? I don't know which way to turn it so when i back down the idle screw and it's running it fully returns to a lower idle, that 2 millimetres if i even press it to full return the governor pulls it back higher, it looks like they took it off & screwed it way in to hold a higher idle?( lots of threads used) I have not torn the carb down yet just carb sprayed it. the Wilco magneto shoots huge blue sparks off the wire ends if i pull them, I still need to pull the spark plugs & check them & check compression

If the carb is dirty then adjusting the idle screw isn't going to do much. I would start with pulling it apart and soaking it. Order a rebuild kit after you get it apart if you need one

[John Baptist]

If the carb is dirty then adjusting the idle screw isn't going to do much. I would start with pulling it apart and soaking it. Order a rebuild kit after you get it apart if you need one

yeah it needs a rebuild kit, It fires right up and runs strong & at other times it doesn't, i inspected my fuel tank it's got a lot of trash in the bottom & the way this thing was set up from the factory it has no filters of any kind fuel/oil nothing in the tank just a tube maybe those bits in the bottom are half tank rust and whats left of a strainer HAHA! I watched a Zenith carb video related to the Atomic engines all these zenith carbs look very similar he said you can pull the main jet and the idle air/fuel spray them out & if the carbs ok it should clean up I did that & it was firing nicely but both spark plugs looked bad, one was full of dry black soot & one was cooked clean with a White stripe (they put too much oil in the engine) I got both of them to look right after starting it and letting it run several times *shrugs* I have a feeling I have intermittent spark and trash in my carb, I need to buy a glass fuel strainer & points look good in the magneto. new spark plugs and wires are next on the buy list, mla2ofus Has been helping to he really knows his stuff, We got the governor set correctly (thank God the throttle arm is rusted to the carb so that was not messed with it) does need to be backed off 1 turn so it doesn't rest on the wide open stop but it's fine for now & i cleaned all the dirt and trash out of the governor arm it wasn't allowing it to articulate all the way.

[KenO]

I went through about the same thing with my Onan P218 on a Miller. I tore it down and cleaned the carb several times, I was sure I got all the passages. It would run fine if the choke was cracked, but otherwise no improvement. I must have missed something. I didn't buy a rebuild kit, they are very expensive, and if its a passage I missed, I would still be in the same boat.

I did a search, and there are lots of Chinese knockoffs, starting at a price that was half a rebuild kit. I bought a Kipa off of Amazon, and it runs like a new machine. It was a perfect fit, didn't have to adjust anything. You might do a search of yours.

[John Baptist]

I went through about the same thing with my Onan P218 on a Miller. I tore it down and cleaned the carb several times, I was sure I got all the passages. It would run fine if the choke was cracked, but otherwise no improvement. I must have missed something. I didn't buy a rebuild kit, they are very expensive, and if its a passage I missed, I would still be in the same boat.

I did a search, and there are lots of Chinese knockoffs, starting at a price that was half a rebuild kit. I bought a Kipa off of Amazon, and it runs like a new machine. It was a perfect fit, didn't have to adjust anything. You might do a search of yours.

i couldn't see any spark today. it's like it has a short of bad ground when it fires, it fires. My rebuild kit is not so bad chinesium kit is like $14 a real one is like $30 No idea about a china replacement carb it was already swapped with a newer carb than original by 20 years i think? I think the original carbs rebuild kit was $45

[SquirmyPug]

Does that machine have a fuel pump? If it does then I would clean the gas tank and install a fuel filter.

Since you think it's not sparking every time like it should then you need to figure that part out. Check any wire connections from the spark plugs back, loose connections or dirty connections could be the issue. And of course make sure battery connections are clan and tight and that it has a good charge.

When you rebuild the carburetor it's a good time to replace fuel lines and clean the tank so that you know you're getting fuel like it needs.

[danielplace]

Before you alter all the settings and search for gremlins completely disassemble and clean the carb thoroughly as has been suggested. I believe your problem lies within. Something has junk in it.

[John Baptist]

fuel tank is off the machine getting cleaned lots of rust lots of junk.... after i thought i got the carb and governor squared away (the governor was set wrong at like 3000 rpm.. max is 2400) I started get no spark issues intermittently it did do this 1 time before but had the thing running perfect & bang nothing just stopped running one day zip. adjusting the carb made it better at first but those felt or wool washer things in the adjustable main jet disintegrated, pulled the mag the bare wire that goes to ground had broke off reconnected that tested spark again when i crank it on some cranks it's bright on the tester some it's kinda weak probably the condenser? i hope because the coil is $$$ I can't begin to tell you guys whats happened in just a few weeks carb trouble & spark trouble it was running perfect And i was starting it every few days because i had a feeling it would flush out gunk sooner or later but the idle was high & I did not see the rust in the tank because it was tilted, when i timed the mag i went by the shop manual mla sent me odd thing the manual says get the X mark in the sight port in the middle but the picture shows it at the very bottom just visible I've seen 2 videos now that say bottom of the sight port? and tonight I heard it detonate & realized i was not sure which spark plug went to which on the mag because i have no idea what cyl is 1 and 2 the manual says on the mag the left is 2 but on the engine no idea & the manual said just to move the flywheel to the mark D-C with an X on the fin X was rusted off but not the D-C fine did that removed the mag & replaced it......... it's on a cart with a flat tire tilted down and back.... well when i fixed that I bet it dumped all those chunks of rust into the carb. wish i knew where to get one of those fiber felt washers. Sorry this is so out of order I never worked on carbs or magnetos this has been a crash course. so carb issues, mags probably timed wrong now and honestly it might not of been at top dead center i just went by the marks.........

[John Baptist]

Before you alter all the settings and search for gremlins completely disassemble and clean the carb thoroughly as has been suggested. I believe your problem lies within. Something has junk in it.

i couldn't even get the carb to come off it has a gasket but it rusted through the bolt holes when i went to remove it the bolts they were half severely rusted I sprayed and sprayed it with wd40 and carb cleaner but no luck but i read i just need a putty knife, here's hoping it's a cast iron zenith L48J & their are a million carb kits none with my main jet and that washer and some are $14 some are $50 i am more than lost.

[John Baptist]

Does that machine have a fuel pump? If it does then I would clean the gas tank and install a fuel filter.

Since you think it's not sparking every time like it should then you need to figure that part out. Check any wire connections from the spark plugs back, loose connections or dirty connections could be the issue. And of course make sure battery connections are clan and tight and that it has a good charge.

When you rebuild the carburetor it's a good time to replace fuel lines and clean the tank so that you know you're getting fuel like it needs.

I literally have to bend and flare new copper tube to install a fuel filter or a strainer it never had either it's from like 1949-1950-ish all the lines are short and direct I don't have a copper tube bender or a flare kit and i'm not sure there is even enough length the easiest would be right outside the tank but i'd have to cut and flare the tube.

[John Baptist]

Does that machine have a fuel pump? If it does then I would clean the gas tank and install a fuel filter.

Since you think it's not sparking every time like it should then you need to figure that part out. Check any wire connections from the spark plugs back, loose connections or dirty connections could be the issue. And of course make sure battery connections are clan and tight and that it has a good charge.

When you rebuild the carburetor it's a good time to replace fuel lines and clean the tank so that you know you're getting fuel like it needs.

it has no battery it's a crank start magneto there are no extra wires, spark plug wires go right to the mag the only electronics are inside the magneto with the coil and points, the points are like brand new and gapped correctly they never even had corrosion on them, the flywheel doesn't even have a stator. but thank you

[mla2ofus]

Hose barbs and rubber fuel hose will fix the fuel line problems.

[John Baptist]

Hose barbs and rubber fuel hose will fix the fuel line problems.

that will be next then, i wanted to leave it original but for the time being the fuel has to be filtered got the carb off the intake pipe easy with a putty knife & it had lots of rust inside the carb but it instantly pealed the carb gasket in about 3 pieces haha! and you never would know it unless you saw it but the rubber tip on the needle for the float had the tiniest ring of rubber come off the very base as soon as i touched it to wipe the crude off i bet it won't seal now I don't know we shall see. Wish i had good news but on a lighter note I do see why carb cleaner usually fixes old zeniths every hole or jet is pretty big much bigger than modern carbs I've cleaned up but it was full of loose rust being cast iron + from the tank

[Insaneride]

in your post#14 video, at the 9 minute mark, he explains how to adjust the air/fuel mixture. After the engine warms, follow his instructions to get the the highest idle using the mixture adjust screw then back the idle down using the idle adjust screw.

if your magneto still isn't getting spark, disconnect the kill wire and kill button if it still has one and clean that area with alcohol or acetone. There should also be an insulating washer phenolic I think. the insulating washer needs to be clean and free of contaminates. If the kill switch and or button is dirty, it can cause an unwanted short to ground and kill the spark. Guess how I know?

Looks like its coming together nicely

Edit: you may not have a kill button but it goes to the same place as kill wire on magneto.