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Thread: Dialarc Time; Zero Experience Here!

  1. #1
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    Dialarc Time; Zero Experience Here!

    Been reading here and it seems Dialarc and Idealarc are both highly desirable machines.

    Because I have zero experience welding I figure it makes sense to get a nicer machine so learning goes as smoothly as possible.

    Took a chance on an auction and need to wire up a Dialarc and get leads and all for it. I've read there's rarely anything that can go wrong with them and checked serial info and it's from 1982.

    Does a typical garage have the wiring/breaker/panel to support using a Dialarc? Is it likely I'd need to do electrical work to accommodate using it?

    I've also read they're nearly 400 lb machines - how does a one man operation typically move/transport one of these without assistance?

    Any thoughts or direction on how to get me on the right track here and ultimately welding would be greatly appreciated.

    Thank you for reading and God bless you in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ.
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    Re: Dialarc Time; Zero Experience Here!

    Well those are great machines and you have options on moving them in the shop. There is a factory Miller undercarriage kit available or you could build one with heavy duty castors. I would suggest you download the manual from Miller. Be sure you remove the right side panel and inspect the jumper placement on the power lugs. If this machine came out of an industrial setting it could be wired for 460 volts.


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    Miller Dialarc 250 (1990)
    Miller Maxstar 140 STR (2003)
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    Re: Dialarc Time; Zero Experience Here!


    Here is a Dialarc I used to have. It was a 1983. The undercarriage was the Miller OEM. It was powder coated with custom top


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    Miller Dialarc 250 (1990)
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    Re: Dialarc Time; Zero Experience Here!


    The red panel at the bottom right is where the jumpers are located


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    Steve

    Miller Dialarc 250 (1990)
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    Re: Dialarc Time; Zero Experience Here!

    Thanks for the replies!
    I've got the manual downloaded and see what you're talking about with wiring voltage.
    So as long as I have it set to 220v (or less...?) it should theoretically be fine for a typical garage, or is it likely I'd need to upgrade electrical capacity somehow?
    Yours looks awesome there!

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    Re: Dialarc Time; Zero Experience Here!

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    This is it here too, right?

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    Re: Dialarc Time; Zero Experience Here!

    Thatís it. A 50 amp circuit is what I would recommend at minimum. Jumpers set for 220V


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    Steve

    Miller Dialarc 250 (1990)
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    Re: Dialarc Time; Zero Experience Here!

    You guys posted 4-5 times while I was writing this, so you have answered some.

    Questions you need to answer before going too far. Is it a single phase machine? That should be on the plate with electrical information. Many guys have been disappointed to find they bought a 3 phase machine which is unlikely to run in a residential garage.

    As Steve pointed out, you need the manual for your specific machine to ensure any jumpers are set correctly. You should be able to look up by model and serial number here:
    https://www.millerwelds.com/support/manuals-and-parts

    Miller Customer Service and Tech Support are terrific so reach out to them if needed 920-734-9821.

    Without manual, I think you will need at least a 50 amp 220v outlet. To use at its maximum you may need more amps. I have used a 50 amp with my Syncrowave for 8 years with no problem but Iím a hobbyist, not a full time shop. If you need to add a circuit, you are allowed to de-rate the wiring for welders due to their intermittent use so work with your electrician.

    I had to hire a tow truck to unload my Syncrowave because I had no other lift capability. I purchased a shop crane from Harbor Freight in case I need to load up. It is on a heavy duty cart to move around shop.

    Looks like you need leads and ground clamp. Are you planning to stick weld or going to TIG?

    Of course you need safety gear - (helmet, gloves, etc), grinders, clamps, some way to cut metal (jigsaw, cutoff wheel, circular saw, band saw), and your first project will likely be a welding table.

    Welcome to the forum. I always suggest adding your location for help with welding and metal suppliers (not big box stores) or local member to help you get started.

    Once you are setup, spend a lot of time here or other sites to learn all you can.
    Burt
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    Re: Dialarc Time; Zero Experience Here!

    As far as I know all Dialarc 250 welders were single phase but could be set to run on 2 legs of 3 phase. The old Lincoln Idealarc250 welders were all single phase


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    Steve

    Miller Dialarc 250 (1990)
    Miller Maxstar 140 STR (2003)
    Lincoln SA200 Redface Pipeliner (1966)
    Lincoln MP210 (2015)
    Victor and MECO torches

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    Re: Dialarc Time; Zero Experience Here!

    Mine had wheels installed by the previous owner (lawnmower style at the back, swivel castors up front) so it works much like Sparkie's. I might make a removable handle to pull it with the garden tractor or ATV some day. It's ok to move it around the shop, but because of the weight it's not really a portable. I have a couple AC buzz boxes I would grab first if I was going to weld something in the field with the generator... there's lots of light weight options in the newer/lighter multi-process machines if you go that direction. If you need to move it around you'll need a plug in on the end of that cord rather than hard wiring again. For farm repairs I'm running mine on a 50 amp circuit and it's been fine. As far as your wiring being adequate, you'll probably need a dedicated line from the box to your new 50 amp plugin, but you should probably get someone with some electrical qualifications to look at the panel and see what you do have there. What is "typical" can vary a lot from region to region.... or at least post some pics( inside and out).. most of these guys can tell you what it is.
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    Re: Dialarc Time; Zero Experience Here!

    Quote Originally Posted by HisWord1ST View Post
    Thanks for the replies!
    I've got the manual downloaded and see what you're talking about with wiring voltage.
    So as long as I have it set to 220v (or less...?) it should theoretically be fine for a typical garage, or is it likely I'd need to upgrade electrical capacity somehow?
    Yours looks awesome there!
    There's no real way of knowing if your garage has the power required or not. Most residential houses don't seem to have 230V outlets, so you might have to get an electrician to take a look. If you have a sub-panel in the garage it's more likely to have 230V service, but not a guarantee.

    I've had three Dialarc 250s and ran them just fine on a 50A circuit, but that's probably a practical minimum. I ran one on a 40A circuit and it worked fine, but I don't recall how high I ran the amperage.

    You do want to make sure the jumpers on the machine match the input voltage...sending more amperage to it than the jumpers are set for can cause damage.
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    Re: Dialarc Time; Zero Experience Here!

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    Thanks for all the replies and I'm happy to be here!

    Here's electrical info from the manual. I don't know if that means 50 amps is sufficient in all respects or not.

    I have a panel in my garage - will a picture of it uploaded here give the necessary information to know if it'll handle 220 volts?

    I have casters I can put on it but I meant un/loading into/onto a vehicle for transport. Lifting it solo into a SUV will be hard without a forklift or something and the seller won't help I'm pretty certain...

    I'm planning on learning to stick weld with it and potentially learn to TIG at some point. My primary interest is in welding strength equipment up but anything else would be great (like a trailer to go pick up this machine with my SUV to begin with). So I'd imagine I'll be doing it all from the garage and maybe lead length will be important. I saw another post about buying 100' of lead mentioned in reference to this same machine but I'm sure the associated costs have gone up quite a bit from the time that was posted.

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    Re: Dialarc Time; Zero Experience Here!

    Something to consider as to lead length. If your welder will be in one location in the shop then the power lead will be easy to figure out. But if itís on a cart and you will regularly roll it over to the overhead door or out on a concrete apron to weld you should consider buying 6-3 SO power cord long enough to do that. With the longer power cord you can buy less 1 or 1/0 welding lead. This will be expensive but cheaper than buying double the length of welding lead for stinger and ground. The welder I had pictured had 30í of 6-3 SO and 100í of 1/0 divided 60/40 stinger/ground.


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    Steve

    Miller Dialarc 250 (1990)
    Miller Maxstar 140 STR (2003)
    Lincoln SA200 Redface Pipeliner (1966)
    Lincoln MP210 (2015)
    Victor and MECO torches

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    Re: Dialarc Time; Zero Experience Here!

    When I bought my idealarc, the seller loaded it with a forklift. When I got it home I borrowed a neighbors engine hoist to unload it.
    MillerMatic 252, HTP 221 w/cooler, Hypertherm PM45, Lincoln IdealArc 250 AC/DC

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    Re: Dialarc Time; Zero Experience Here!

    Quote Originally Posted by HisWord1ST View Post

    Thanks for all the replies and I'm happy to be here!

    Here's electrical info from the manual. I don't know if that means 50 amps is sufficient in all respects or not.

    I have a panel in my garage - will a picture of it uploaded here give the necessary information to know if it'll handle 220 volts?

    I have casters I can put on it but I meant un/loading into/onto a vehicle for transport. Lifting it solo into a SUV will be hard without a forklift or something and the seller won't help I'm pretty certain...

    I'm planning on learning to stick weld with it and potentially learn to TIG at some point. My primary interest is in welding strength equipment up but anything else would be great (like a trailer to go pick up this machine with my SUV to begin with). So I'd imagine I'll be doing it all from the garage and maybe lead length will be important. I saw another post about buying 100' of lead mentioned in reference to this same machine but I'm sure the associated costs have gone up quite a bit from the time that was posted.
    The electric service guide shows 80A of input current required when the supply is at 230V and the welder is putting out the rated output. Some versions are rated at 225A output and some are rated at 250A output, but either is much higher than you're likely to ever need. With the common 1/8" electrodes you probably won't need any more than 150A or so. Even going up a size to 5/32 electrodes you probably wouldn't need more than 200A. You shouldn't have any problem with a 50A circuit running anything typical of home shop welding. It wouldn't hurt to have an 80A circuit but it would cost quite a bit more from a breaker/wire standpoint.

    If you take a picture of the panel we can probably get an idea if it will support a welder. You'd also want to check the panel on the house side and see what sort of breaker is supplying the panel. As an example...just because you have a 100A panel in the garage doesn't mean that's what it's being supplied with from the main panel.

    I wouldn't try loading/unloading a Dialarc without something mechanical to pick it up! I use a cherry picker/hoist/crane to move anything that size. Maybe 3/4 young guys with really strong backs could lift it, but that's asking for smashed fingers....no good places to hold it.

    Dialarcs are fantastic stick welders, but limited from a TIG perspective since only the HF models have high frequency start as an option. You'll be limited to lift/scratch start and won't be able to weld aluminum (needs continuous HF). You may just want to plan on buying an inexpensive TIG welder when you decide to make that move.
    Check out my bench vise website:
    http://mivise.com


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    Re: Dialarc Time; Zero Experience Here!

    Quote Originally Posted by Sparkie1957 View Post
    Something to consider as to lead length. If your welder will be in one location in the shop then the power lead will be easy to figure out. But if itís on a cart and you will regularly roll it over to the overhead door or out on a concrete apron to weld you should consider buying 6-3 SO power cord long enough to do that. With the longer power cord you can buy less 1 or 1/0 welding lead. This will be expensive but cheaper than buying double the length of welding lead for stinger and ground. The welder I had pictured had 30í of 6-3 SO and 100í of 1/0 divided 60/40 stinger/ground.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    So it's cheaper to buy a longer power cord than twice the lead length to accommodate working distance, right?

    Is there a minimum distance the table and project should be from the welder itself? Is there a 10' minimum lead length for stinger and ground each?

    I've seen 55'/45' and 60'/40' stinger/ground mentioned here both now - is this just because you want room to move around with the stinger while the ground remains attached to the closest part of the workpiece to the welder? So the bigger the object a person is welding on, the more rationale for have a stinger lead length significantly longer than ground lead length - is that correct?

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    Re: Dialarc Time; Zero Experience Here!

    Quote Originally Posted by frieed View Post
    When I bought my idealarc, the seller loaded it with a forklift. When I got it home I borrowed a neighbors engine hoist to unload it.
    Unfortunately I don't have either of those and the seller explicitly states it's 100% the responsibility of the buyer to arrange all packing/transporting/etc...

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    Re: Dialarc Time; Zero Experience Here!

    Rent a engine hoist at a rental store. Donít take the chance of hurting yourself or tearing up the welder. They are to heavy and hard to get a handle on. The lifting eye was put there for a reason


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    Miller Dialarc 250 (1990)
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    Re: Dialarc Time; Zero Experience Here!

    Quote Originally Posted by HisWord1ST View Post
    So it's cheaper to buy a longer power cord than twice the lead length to accommodate working distance, right?

    Is there a minimum distance the table and project should be from the welder itself? Is there a 10' minimum lead length for stinger and ground each?

    I've seen 55'/45' and 60'/40' stinger/ground mentioned here both now - is this just because you want room to move around with the stinger while the ground remains attached to the closest part of the workpiece to the welder? So the bigger the object a person is welding on, the more rationale for have a stinger lead length significantly longer than ground lead length - is that correct?
    For me itís personal preference. You need to decide what is necessary for your shop and potential projects you will do. I would error on the side of longer than necessary, nothing more frustrating than coming up short! That is true in welding leads and other places as well


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    Miller Dialarc 250 (1990)
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    Re: Dialarc Time; Zero Experience Here!

    Hire a tow truck to load and unload. Best if you have a trailer or open truck. If not too distant hire tow truck to pickup and deliver. I paid $45 to tow truck for picking up and setting down.
    Burt
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    Re: Dialarc Time; Zero Experience Here!

    Quote Originally Posted by G-ManBart View Post
    The electric service guide shows 80A of input current required when the supply is at 230V and the welder is putting out the rated output. Some versions are rated at 225A output and some are rated at 250A output, but either is much higher than you're likely to ever need. With the common 1/8" electrodes you probably won't need any more than 150A or so. Even going up a size to 5/32 electrodes you probably wouldn't need more than 200A. You shouldn't have any problem with a 50A circuit running anything typical of home shop welding. It wouldn't hurt to have an 80A circuit but it would cost quite a bit more from a breaker/wire standpoint.

    If you take a picture of the panel we can probably get an idea if it will support a welder. You'd also want to check the panel on the house side and see what sort of breaker is supplying the panel. As an example...just because you have a 100A panel in the garage doesn't mean that's what it's being supplied with from the main panel.

    I wouldn't try loading/unloading a Dialarc without something mechanical to pick it up! I use a cherry picker/hoist/crane to move anything that size. Maybe 3/4 young guys with really strong backs could lift it, but that's asking for smashed fingers....no good places to hold it.

    Dialarcs are fantastic stick welders, but limited from a TIG perspective since only the HF models have high frequency start as an option. You'll be limited to lift/scratch start and won't be able to weld aluminum (needs continuous HF). You may just want to plan on buying an inexpensive TIG welder when you decide to make that move.
    Name:  Power.jpg
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    Thanks for the reply!

    My suuuuper slow internet wouldn't work with the image uploads until after around a dozen attempts or so!

    So here's what's in the garage. It says outside 220 for one switch so I'm guessing that's a good sign?

    I'll have to get something to move it without doing it on my own since that's the consensus here and for good reason.

    Good to know about the TIG considerations.

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    Re: Dialarc Time; Zero Experience Here!

    Quote Originally Posted by HisWord1ST View Post


    Thanks for the reply!

    My suuuuper slow internet wouldn't work with the image uploads until after around a dozen attempts or so!

    So here's what's in the garage. It says outside 220 for one switch so I'm guessing that's a good sign?

    I'll have to get something to move it without doing it on my own since that's the consensus here and for good reason.

    Good to know about the TIG considerations.
    That's a pretty good sized panel, and there are several 220/230V breakers, so that's a good sign. The next thing to figure out is the supply this panel gets from the main panel. Assuming this is a sub-panel being fed off a 230V breaker on the main panel, you should be able to look at that breaker and have an idea what's being sent to the sub-panel.

    You'll want to add up the normal loads being supplied by the sub-panel and see if you have enough excess to power the welder. If you aren't comfortable with that, it might be time to get an electrician in to do a load analysis and see what will work and what needs to be done.

    If there's a towing company close by that might be your best bet for loading/unloading. I had a local wrecker meet me at an auction pickup to load a metal lathe for me and he only hit me for $100....considering the size and liability I thought that was reasonable.
    Check out my bench vise website:
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    Re: Dialarc Time; Zero Experience Here!

    This is a poster case of ask before you buy. Its a fine machine for some people but you are a poster child for a Everlast 160 or evenb a DC buzzer runs from a common 50 welder recept Something fits the scenario, Sell this dinosaur, buy a modern machine that will run from a 12 cord. Gotta rent equipment to move this fugger, who ever advised you or the research used to come to the conclusion this was the machine for you not worth it for free.
    Last edited by Sberry; 08-30-2021 at 09:21 PM.

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    Re: Dialarc Time; Zero Experience Here!

    Quote Originally Posted by G-ManBart View Post
    That's a pretty good sized panel, and there are several 220/230V breakers, so that's a good sign. The next thing to figure out is the supply this panel gets from the main panel. Assuming this is a sub-panel being fed off a 230V breaker on the main panel, you should be able to look at that breaker and have an idea what's being sent to the sub-panel.

    You'll want to add up the normal loads being supplied by the sub-panel and see if you have enough excess to power the welder. If you aren't comfortable with that, it might be time to get an electrician in to do a load analysis and see what will work and what needs to be done.

    If there's a towing company close by that might be your best bet for loading/unloading. I had a local wrecker meet me at an auction pickup to load a metal lathe for me and he only hit me for $100....considering the size and liability I thought that was reasonable.
    How do I find the main panel? I've never seen any other panel inside the house at all - is there anywhere else it could be or could it be that one of those is the main panel?

    I'd not be comfortable with that without further guidance.

    I have a box truck with liftgate that would make it simple but it's got a big battery drain due to some of the wiring to the liftgate and I've not figured it out yet. If I need to, I may just charge it up, keep the liftgate disconnected and then once arriving onsite, I can connect the liftgate wiring to the battery bank and get it loaded up and then disconnect it once I'm all set to head back.

    It could have been a big problem once previously but that was a two hour drive each way and I had it wired to the battery bank the whole way so I think the above would work out if necessary.

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    Re: Dialarc Time; Zero Experience Here!

    Quote Originally Posted by Sberry View Post
    This is a poster case of ask before you buy. Its a fine machine for some people but you are a poster child for a Everlast 160 or evenb a DC buzzer runs from a common 50 welder recept Something fits the scenario, Sell this dinosaur, buy a modern machine that will run from a 12 cord. Gotta rent equipment to move this fugger, who ever advised you or the research used to come to the conclusion this was the machine for you not worth it for free.
    Sell the dinosaur? You clearly haven't read the OP's posts.
    Check out my bench vise website:
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    Miller Regency 200 with 22A feeder and Spoolmatic 3
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