Small 7018 - smaller than 3/32?

[FlyFishn]

I have been working on a project the past couple weeks that uses a lot of 3/32-1/4" thick steel. I've been using mostly a combination of 3/32" 6011 for tacking and 3/32" 7018 for beads. I did try 3/32" 6010, but it is too aggressive at an amperage I can run it so I went back to 6011 and that's worked OK.

The hard thing with the 3/32" 7018 is the lower amperage of the recommended range is 85 amps. I am trying to run it down at 55 amps. And even then I am blowing through some parts.

I'd rather stick to 7018 as the assemblies are structural that will be subject to dynamic loading, vibration, and rattling. From what I know about rods - 7018 is the most ideal for the environment.

The specific rods I am using are 3/32" Lincoln JET-LH-78 MR-RSP.

For what it is worth, I have 1/16" Hobart 7014 and 5/64" Blue Demon 7014. I've had pretty good luck with the 5/64" 7014, as far as running the rods on small stuff goes. The 1/16" rods are a bit too flimsy. If I could get something like a 5/64" 7018 that runs like the JET-LH-78 MR-RSP's that would be ideal. Any ideas on how to find something like that? Or is there another small rod you would run instead?

2 rods I will not run for this application are 6013 and 7014. They are too brittle. Hence why even having 7014 the size I need I won't run it for this application.

[walker]

I think I have some 1/16" 7018. It is almost like tig welding,

[BD1]

7018 Is available for AC and for DC.
Do you have the right rod to match machine ??


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[mla2ofus]

Why are you running 3/32" welding 1/4" steel?? Are you trying to fill some hellish gaps?

[FlyFishn]

Why are you running 3/32" welding 1/4" steel?? Are you trying to fill some hellish gaps?

Because I am welding 1/16" wall pipe to the edge of 1/4" and 3/16" plate/bar. The pipe is mostly what I am burning through. I've done a fair amount of 1/8" metal fine with low amperage on the 3/32' rods. When I get over 60a the rods run better but then its way too hot for the small stuff - hence the post.

Edit - on 2nd read to the question - 3/32" rod should be plenty adequate for 1/4" steel. If that is all of what I was welding I could run a lot higher amperage and be fine on 3/32" rod. Not sure what you are getting at with "gap filling" on 1/4?

2 machines - '66 Idealarc 250 AC/DC and Everlast Powerarc 210STL. I've been using the Idealarc for about 80% of the past project. Both machines have been running DCEP.

For what it is worth, I have 1/8" and 5/32" of the same 7018 rods - but those will be even harder to run at low amps so getting them to run and at an amperage that doesn't blow through the small stuff would be impossible to do what I'm doing.

[milomilo]

Because I am welding 1/16" wall pipe to the edge of 1/4" and 3/16" plate/bar. The pipe is mostly what I am burning through. I've done a fair amount of 1/8" metal fine with low amperage on the 3/32' rods. When I get over 60a the rods run better but then its way too hot for the small stuff - hence the post.

Edit - on 2nd read to the question - 3/32" rod should be plenty adequate for 1/4" steel. If that is all of what I was welding I could run a lot higher amperage and be fine on 3/32" rod. Not sure what you are getting at with "gap filling" on 1/4?

2 machines - '66 Idealarc 250 AC/DC and Everlast Powerarc 210STL. I've been using the Idealarc for about 80% of the past project. Both machines have been running DCEP.

For what it is worth, I have 1/8" and 5/32" of the same 7018 rods - but those will be even harder to run at low amps so getting them to run and at an amperage that doesn't blow through the small stuff would be impossible to do what I'm doing.

Try 6013 on DCEN. Might work well for the thin wall pipe.

[mla2ofus]

So you're welding the end of the pipe to the 1/4" wide edge of the plate? If so that sounds like a job for a mig. Pics help prevent a lot of unnecessary questions.

[FlyFishn]

Try 6013 on DCEN. Might work well for the thin wall pipe.

See original post.

2 rods I will not run for this application are 6013 and 7014. They are too brittle. Hence why even having 7014 the size I need I won't run it for this application.

[FlyFishn]

So you're welding the end of the pipe to the 1/4" wide edge of the plate? If so that sounds like a job for a mig. Pics help prevent a lot of unnecessary questions.

Side wall of pipe. Making a 3 axis pivot/hinge at the moment, but I have a decent amount of this small pipe so I'm sure it will find its way in to all kinds of projects.

[M J D]

Sounds to me you need to do some practice runs and focus on concentrating the arc, and thus the heat on the thicker material.

[milomilo]

See original post.

Not sure where you that idea from. 6013 is being used in many places for pressure pipe welding.

[mla2ofus]

Sounds to me you need to do some practice runs and focus on concentrating the arc, and thus the heat on the thicker material.

i agree with MJD. You need practice to learn how to "wash" weld from the 1/4" to the pipe, ie: maintain the arc on the 1/4" and little oscillations to the pipe and back to the 1/4" preferably in the flat position.

[albrightree]

If its .062 wall thickness its tube not pipe. If its "structural" that tube will fail long before the "brittle" 6013/7014 weld will. Putting an aluminum backer rod in the tube is an easy way to help reduce burn through. Using thicker metal(pipe) is probably much easier than trying to use thin wall conduit(and stronger too). You will find that designing stuff to be welded will save you a lot of time, rather than fighting with materials that aren't a good fit for the job.

Good Luck

[William McCormick]

I have been working on a project the past couple weeks that uses a lot of 3/32-1/4" thick steel. I've been using mostly a combination of 3/32" 6011 for tacking and 3/32" 7018 for beads. I did try 3/32" 6010, but it is too aggressive at an amperage I can run it so I went back to 6011 and that's worked OK.

The hard thing with the 3/32" 7018 is the lower amperage of the recommended range is 85 amps. I am trying to run it down at 55 amps. And even then I am blowing through some parts.

I'd rather stick to 7018 as the assemblies are structural that will be subject to dynamic loading, vibration, and rattling. From what I know about rods - 7018 is the most ideal for the environment.

The specific rods I am using are 3/32" Lincoln JET-LH-78 MR-RSP.

For what it is worth, I have 1/16" Hobart 7014 and 5/64" Blue Demon 7014. I've had pretty good luck with the 5/64" 7014, as far as running the rods on small stuff goes. The 1/16" rods are a bit too flimsy. If I could get something like a 5/64" 7018 that runs like the JET-LH-78 MR-RSP's that would be ideal. Any ideas on how to find something like that? Or is there another small rod you would run instead?

2 rods I will not run for this application are 6013 and 7014. They are too brittle. Hence why even having 7014 the size I need I won't run it for this application.

Try a 7016 rod they are great for thin material and thick.

Sincerely,

William McCormick

[Louie1961]

If its .062 wall thickness its tube not pipe. If its "structural" that tube will fail long before the "brittle" 6013/7014 weld will. Putting an aluminum backer rod in the tube is an easy way to help reduce burn through. Using thicker metal(pipe) is probably much easier than trying to use thin wall conduit(and stronger too). You will find that designing stuff to be welded will save you a lot of time, rather than fighting with materials that aren't a good fit for the job.

Good Luck

This. +1000. Stop worrying about it being structural and just use whatever works. There will be no difference in performance in this application between 6013, 7014, and 7018.

[12345678910]

The hard thing with the 3/32" 7018 is the lower amperage of the recommended range is 85 amps. I am trying to run it down at 55 amps. And even then I am blowing through some parts.

I'd rather stick to 7018 as the assemblies are structural that will be subject to dynamic loading, vibration, and rattling. From what I know about rods - 7018 is the most ideal for the .

I'd try aluminum or grass chill bar or rod, like putting rod inside the tubing

I'd check if you aren't long arcing things. That creates more heat.

[smithdoor]

I would look type welding you doing.
I have burn a lot 7018 rod only in field.
In the shop I used flux core faster and fewer problems.

7018 needs to be per heated most will use right out of a open box.
Without per heating 7018 is no longer low hydrogen.

Dave

I have been working on a project the past couple weeks that uses a lot of 3/32-1/4" thick steel. I've been using mostly a combination of 3/32" 6011 for tacking and 3/32" 7018 for beads. I did try 3/32" 6010, but it is too aggressive at an amperage I can run it so I went back to 6011 and that's worked OK.

The hard thing with the 3/32" 7018 is the lower amperage of the recommended range is 85 amps. I am trying to run it down at 55 amps. And even then I am blowing through some parts.

I'd rather stick to 7018 as the assemblies are structural that will be subject to dynamic loading, vibration, and rattling. From what I know about rods - 7018 is the most ideal for the environment.

The specific rods I am using are 3/32" Lincoln JET-LH-78 MR-RSP.

For what it is worth, I have 1/16" Hobart 7014 and 5/64" Blue Demon 7014. I've had pretty good luck with the 5/64" 7014, as far as running the rods on small stuff goes. The 1/16" rods are a bit too flimsy. If I could get something like a 5/64" 7018 that runs like the JET-LH-78 MR-RSP's that would be ideal. Any ideas on how to find something like that? Or is there another small rod you would run instead?

2 rods I will not run for this application are 6013 and 7014. They are too brittle. Hence why even having 7014 the size I need I won't run it for this application.

[FlyFishn]

Sounds to me you need to do some practice runs and focus on concentrating the arc, and thus the heat on the thicker material.

Here is a close up of the weld facing up in the earlier picture. What you describe is essentially what I did. I kept the side-to-side motion (I assume that is the "wash" you are referring to) very small. I didn't want a wide bead and the further the side-to-side motion got the more arc time over the tube = more heat.

Even still, there is some undesirable undercut on the tube.

The red lines are the thick base.



The first tube I started welding on I blew through so I cut it off, cleaned up the base, and welded a new part on.

Here is the 2nd one, after the cut off one. The red arrow points to the side of the wall that I blew through. This one didn't open up, but the wall was compromised. I left it and filed the blow-through. In this case adding a rod inside the tube would probably work. I suppose I could use a bolt to do the same thing as a rod (which, by the way, the long bolts aren't what the end result will be - those are cheap hardware store bolts - I'll probably use gr 5's - I'll mull it over - a "shear bolt" wouldn't be a bad idea so cheap ones might actually work at least for one of them).



That assembly was cut at the 2 plates and rotated 90deg, also. At the end of the day, 3 axis articulation is 3 axis articulation so as far as the articulation of the joint it didn't matter, but I got to looking at it and determined that point of the joint should be vertical not horizontal. So I changed it and that's what you see in the whole assembly earlier in the thread - and why there are grind marks on the rounded flange (that is the part in the vice here - the rounded flange with the hole).

[Josey]

Try a 7016 rod they are great for thin material and thick.

Sincerely,

William McCormick

Hi. William Where do you Buy or find 7016 Rods?

[albrightree]

Pipe wall looks like about > 0.125" Should be fairly easy with 3/32" e7014 @ 75-80 amps . Make your life easier, and let gravity help you. Put the pipe in the vise horizontally, stand the 1/4 " plate vertically, tack , and weld. You will adjust the angle of the welding rod to direct the arc at the 1/4" plate, and allow the puddle to droop into the pipe while holding a tight arc. Using 7018 would work too, but require more heat which could distort the pipe if its a tight fit for the bolt(and isn't really necessary).




You appear to have the Luxury of being able to change the position of the weld, in other words, you don't have to weld this in place underneath a machine or vehicle. Use the positioning to your advantage whenever possible on welds. If you cut parts for 12 of these, I would be pretty sure, that the last 2 you made would be perfect. At least thats how it goes for me.

It looks like you made your own box tube on part of this device. Is this for an attachment for a receiver hitch ? Just curious...https://www.weldingweb.com/images/smilies/smile.gif


Best Regards

[albrightree]

Hi. William Where do you Buy or find 7016 Rods?

https://www.airgas.com/product/Weldi.../p/LINED030916

[FlyFishn]

Pipe wall looks like about > 0.125" Should be fairly easy with 3/32" e7014 @ 75-80 amps . Make your life easier, and let gravity help you. Put the pipe in the vise horizontally, stand the 1/4 " plate vertically, tack , and weld. You will adjust the angle of the welding rod to direct the arc at the 1/4" plate, and allow the puddle to droop into the pipe while holding a tight arc. Using 7018 would work too, but require more heat which could distort the pipe if its a tight fit for the bolt(and isn't really necessary).




You appear to have the Luxury of being able to change the position of the weld, in other words, you don't have to weld this in place underneath a machine or vehicle. Use the positioning to your advantage whenever possible on welds. If you cut parts for 12 of these, I would be pretty sure, that the last 2 you made would be perfect. At least thats how it goes for me.

It looks like you made your own box tube on part of this device. Is this for an attachment for a receiver hitch ? Just curious...https://www.weldingweb.com/images/smilies/smile.gif


Best Regards

Tube is 3/8" OD and a 1/4" bolt fits with a slight amount of play. I believe the bolts I measured to set the pivot holes with were .246. I used a tad smaller drill than 1/4" not sure what letter off the top of my head but D rings a bell - my finish holes were D and X if I recall correctly.

As to the positioning - correct. Small parts are easy to position. However, I do not like the idea of pinching the tube in the vice while welding. The pressure of the jaws seems to me like it would distort the tube once hot when welding. So I prefer to tack so the tube is well supported then weld with the other parts in the vice.

As to the square tube - it is a replacement hitch to a bicycle trailer. The OEM hitch is a rubber rod with a metal spring around it. The rubber/spring contraption works OK for lighter loads, but heavy it has too much flex and play (including surging as the rubber and spring stretch and contract). I unbolted the rubber and formed the box you see around the tongue bar. The metal here is way overkill, but it will work for now.

The square tube socket part needs to be re-worked. That was part of the idea change I had with rotating the other end 90deg. I didn't think through the idea and side-mounted the horizontal pivot to the square socket. The tongue bar hits the bike at about a 45deg angle when straight with the bike. So what I need to do is cut off the tube and base from the socket and line everything up. I'd like the pivot to be in-line with the direction of travel when straight, however I don't want the bracketry to interfere with the rear wheel when making a sharp right turn. Therefore I need to set it up and watch clearances before setting up the socket/horizontal pivot. To do it I'll weld in a square plate to the side of the socket facing the the bike (3/16" I think, I thought I had 1/4" plate around but it appears the bulk of it was used on another project so the 3/16" is all I have enough to cut from at the moment unless my 1-1/2" x .1/4" bar stock works). From that I'll form what ever angle I need on the horizontal tube base and fillet weld to the socket square like I did the other T joints.

This is what it is replacing:



There is a small black angled bracket mounted to the raw metal bracket hose clamped to the bike frame. That small angled bracket is the OEM part of the hitch that is part of what I am replacing. There is a large hole in the tongue bar - that is where I am bolting the socket. Everything between that hole and the raw metal bracket on the bike is what the pivot assembly replaces.

[bead-boy]

You have enough weld on those parts to make a trailer hitch for a truck or tractor. In other words, too much weld. A smaller bead and moving faster will fix the burn through problem. Heck, for that application a few heavy tacks would be more than enough. I have made implements for my tractor loader where I forgot to weld out some tacked up parts and they held up fine to heavy work. I am always amazed how strong a small amount of good fused weld actually is.

[52 Ford]

I have been working on a project the past couple weeks that uses a lot of 3/32-1/4" thick steel. I've been using mostly a combination of 3/32" 6011 for tacking and 3/32" 7018 for beads. I did try 3/32" 6010, but it is too aggressive at an amperage I can run it so I went back to 6011 and that's worked OK.

The hard thing with the 3/32" 7018 is the lower amperage of the recommended range is 85 amps. I am trying to run it down at 55 amps. And even then I am blowing through some parts.

I'd rather stick to 7018 as the assemblies are structural that will be subject to dynamic loading, vibration, and rattling. From what I know about rods - 7018 is the most ideal for the environment.

The specific rods I am using are 3/32" Lincoln JET-LH-78 MR-RSP.

For what it is worth, I have 1/16" Hobart 7014 and 5/64" Blue Demon 7014. I've had pretty good luck with the 5/64" 7014, as far as running the rods on small stuff goes. The 1/16" rods are a bit too flimsy. If I could get something like a 5/64" 7018 that runs like the JET-LH-78 MR-RSP's that would be ideal. Any ideas on how to find something like that? Or is there another small rod you would run instead?

2 rods I will not run for this application are 6013 and 7014. They are too brittle. Hence why even having 7014 the size I need I won't run it for this application.

Here's some 1/16" 7018
https://www.amazon.com/Hobart-H11991.../dp/B004USV68I

Focus on the thicker metal. I was welding 3/8" mild steel to 1/16" high carbon plate earlier (part of a saw). 3/32" 6010. Just aim it at the thick metal and when I whip, I pull it slightly towards the thinner stuff, then go back to putting the heat into the thicker part, again.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk

[12345678910]

Here is a close up of the weld facing up in the earlier picture. What you describe is essentially what I did. I kept the side-to-side motion (I assume that is the "wash" you are referring to) very small. I didn't want a wide bead and the further the side-to-side motion got the more arc time over the tube = more heat.

Even still, there is some undesirable undercut on the tube.


Here is the 2nd one, after the cut off one. The red arrow points to the side of the wall that I blew through. This one didn't open up, but the wall was compromised. I left it and filed the blow-through.

In this case adding a rod inside the tube would probably work. I suppose I could use a bolt to do the same thing as a rod.

Re using a chill bar - rod inside the tubing.

Bolts are quite a bit smaller than rod.
Get some rod that's a tighter fit, better fit is better heat transfer and if you do melt through, it acts as a mold to form the melted steel.

The whole point behind using Graphite, brass or aluminum, is that steel weld will not stick to it.
No spatter, no weld through nothing sticks