Results 1 to 23 of 23

Thread: Pulse MIG welding question

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    CT
    Posts
    4,439
    Post Thanks / Like

    Pulse MIG welding question

    I have been trying to get used to working with Pulse MIG on my Multimatic 255. My question is, is it bad to do gun manipulation while welding in pulse mode? I read one article from ESAB that said gun manipulation could result in a less than ideal weld because the welding machine might not adjust fast enough to the changing arc length from moving back over the bead. My journey with pulsed MIG has kind of gone as follows: I started out with 1/8th coupons (cold rolled steel, no mill scale) and 0.035 wire (Lincoln L56), using the autoset feature, and 90/10 gas. At first I was getting a whole bunch of spatter and really crappy looking beads that were all strung out. After a while I figured out the correct stick out, but the beads were still pretty inconsistent, really thin and I was still getting a lot of crackling and spatter. Next I spent time figuring out the best combinations of wire feed speed and arc length. I was running 155 on the WFS (up from the recommended 150) and an arc length (trim) of 60-67 (out of 100, with the default being 50). Finally I started making some halfway decent beads with no spatter, but I couldn't get the puddle width I wanted for a fillet weld, and was still having trouble with holding a consistent puddle width. I then switched to 0.045 wire (still L56), and the situation got significantly better. But I was still having some trouble getting decent leg size on fillet welds, so I started experimenting with using the cursive "e" technique I normally use on short circuit MIG. There was a tiny bit of crackling and spatter on the back end of the "e" when I transition across the middle, but the beads looked much improved

    Then I transitioned over to 1/4 inch CRS coupons and this welder really came to life! Man, this process is HOT. On 1/4 inch material, all of the autoset settings were almost perfect (150 WFS and 50 arc length). I could make OK beads with plenty of bead width with a straight push (all of my work has been pushing, not pulling), but when I kicked in the cursive "e" the beads came out much better.

    So, what am I doing wrong and is gun manipulation a no-no?

    Once I get better at this, I will need to do some cut and etch samples. Its crazy how much hotter pulse is over short circuit. Almost feels like dual shield hot.
    Miller Multimatic 255

  2. Likes robert-r liked this post
  3. #2
    Join Date
    Apr 2020
    Location
    AntHome 92025
    Posts
    64
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Pulse MIG welding question

    Subscribed.
    Millermatic 255
    Dynasty 280 DX
    Ready Welder I
    Hypertherm 30XP

  4. #3
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Location
    Cumbria, UK
    Posts
    1,462
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Pulse MIG welding question

    I didn't really like the Miller XMT/Optima pulse on steel. It looked OK but wasn't any benefit over straight spray or short-arc transfer, penetration was marginal. I kept the optima pulser for aluminium only.

    the Lorch Saprom I have now is far better on steel for pulsing, I use it for structural sections and anything over 3mm, although I'll switch to short-arc for uphill.

    The general rule of thumb I was told by the Lorch guys themselves, was to alter the arc length until it's about 1mm above the weld pool. You'll still get a few crackles but it should be mostly straight humming/buzzing.
    I run as much wirespeed as I would normally run for the thickness of steel, that makes sure your average amps are up where they need to be and keeps travel speed up a bit.

    It IS a slower process than straight CV spray. It's also a very runny puddle at higher amps. Say anything above 100 amps, the puddle is too runny to work in anything other than flat and 2F positions. I know some people get it to work for them, but I personally can't, so i switch to short-arc.

    as far as manipulation goes, the pulse puddle wants to make a very flat fillet weld, I think due to surface tension as the puddle freezes. So any side to side manipulation leads to variations, and you can get undercut, bad tie-ins and even cold laps.

    I move, pause, move, pause. The arc goes direct in the middle of the joint, and I pause until the sides are filled, then move forward. This is where you really need enough wirespeed to fill the joint at a decent rate, without putting too much wasteful heat into it.

    It's not the same as the CV arc, you have to let the machine do the welding. My brother has my old XMT now and we've been welding together over the last few months. He's got used to the CV arc and I've got used to the pulse arc. I can use his machine and make a nice CV weld, but for some reason he can't use my machine and make a nice pulse weld. He overthinks and over manipulates it and it makes a mess.

    I've proved the Lorch settings on cut+etches, and now I treat my machine's torch like an "idiot gun" - I set material amps, pull the trigger and just squirt metal into the joint
    Murphy's Golden Rule: Whoever has the gold, makes the rules.

  5. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    south GA where its hot in summer and cold in winter
    Posts
    5,115
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Pulse MIG welding question

    The pulse spray can stumble if your arc length changes, which it does if you are manipulating at a speed that is needed to prevent over reinforcement. A straight line push is best.
    Esab Migmaster 250
    Lincoln SA 200
    Lincoln Ranger 8
    Smith Oxy Fuel setup
    Everlast PowerPlasma 80
    Everlast Power iMIG 160
    Everlast Power iMIG 205
    Everlast Power iMIG 140E
    Everlast PowerARC 300
    Everlast PowerARC 140ST
    Everlast PowerTIG 255EXT

  6. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2020
    Posts
    19
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Pulse MIG welding question

    On Millers spray arc machines, their main pulse process is called accu-pulse. It is considered a pulse CV hybrid. Of course you can do short circuit with it as well. Lincoln's pulse process was called Rapidarc, it could have changed by now. They are similar in application but Miller utilizes a feedback cable to control weld parameters in real time. Lincoln claims that their feedback is attained from the input and output of the welder. Without this information there is little room for error in pulse technique. Both of the hybrid pulse processes on these machines is awesome. It is smooth and clean after learning the basic techniques.

    It is usually taught to keep the arc at the root of the weld with a 1/4-1/2 wire stickout. Manipulation is to be kept at a mimimum (i teach a sewing machine stitch, 1/16-1/8 back and forth from the leading edge of the weld pool). Old school pulse (which is what it sounds like your running) is more difficult to manipulate. Years ago my company tried to get us all to switch to a straight pulse spray. Eventually most welders went back to CV... until they rolled out the hybrid processes.
    Lincoln 275 Squarewave
    Lincoln SP 250

  7. Likes Munkul liked this post
  8. #6
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    CT
    Posts
    4,439
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Pulse MIG welding question

    The welder is the Miller Multimatic 255. The machine was just released recently (last year?). There is no feedback or voltage sensing cable. Think of this as a smaller version of the Millermatic 350P. This machine is similar to the millermatic 252 (more or less) but adds pulse and couple of other features. https://www.millerwelds.com/equipmen...-welder-m30175
    Miller Multimatic 255

  9. #7
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Laredo, Tx
    Posts
    5,861
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Pulse MIG welding question

    The settings for 035 wire on 1/8" steel seem off (for WFS) IMO. Question: When you adjust the arc length/trim, aside from the arbitrary 0-100 scale that it uses, can you see the actual effect on the voltage somewhere on the screen? In other words, what I'm asking and trying to get at is: do you know your actual & final welding voltage setting after adjusting the trim, and if so what is it?
    1st on WeldingWeb to have a scrolling sig!



  10. #8
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    CT
    Posts
    4,439
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Pulse MIG welding question

    Quote Originally Posted by Oscar View Post
    The settings for 035 wire on 1/8" steel seem off (for WFS) IMO. Question: When you adjust the arc length/trim, aside from the arbitrary 0-100 scale that it uses, can you see the actual effect on the voltage somewhere on the screen? In other words, what I'm asking and trying to get at is: do you know your actual & final welding voltage setting after adjusting the trim, and if so what is it?
    I usually don't get my hood off fast enough to catch the actual voltage. I'll have to see if there is a setting the lengthen the delay. I also mixed up some numbers. WFS was in the 275 range on .035 and 150 range on .045 for the 1/8th coupons. At 1/4 inch I was pushing around 250 IPM on the 045 wire
    Miller Multimatic 255

  11. #9
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Laredo, Tx
    Posts
    5,861
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Pulse MIG welding question

    Quote Originally Posted by Louie1961 View Post
    I usually don't get my hood off fast enough to catch the actual voltage. I'll have to see if there is a setting the lengthen the delay. I also mixed up some numbers. WFS was in the 275 range on .035 and 150 range on .045 for the 1/8th coupons. At 1/4 inch I was pushing around 250 IPM on the 045 wire
    You can also use a voltmeter and secure the leads to the terminals inside the machine. Set up your cell phone to record the voltmeter while you weld, as one possibility.

    I have one suggestion. On 035, up the WFS to ~335 IPM for 1/8" T-joint, and get the adjust the trim in which ever direction you need to, so the final voltage around 23V. If it works, then I think I know why. (I have to do a similar adjustment on my Pro Pulse 300 for 035 wire).
    1st on WeldingWeb to have a scrolling sig!



  12. #10
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    CT
    Posts
    4,439
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Pulse MIG welding question

    What's your theory?
    Miller Multimatic 255

  13. #11
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Laredo, Tx
    Posts
    5,861
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Pulse MIG welding question

    that maybe the settings have been extrapolated from other synergic programs
    1st on WeldingWeb to have a scrolling sig!



  14. #12
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Location
    Cumbria, UK
    Posts
    1,462
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Pulse MIG welding question

    From what i read, you only have two parameters to adjust on the MM255 - wire speed and arc length. This is the same as all earlier Miller pulsed machines.

    The later Invisions and 350P all have an additional parameter to control, called "sharp arc" which sets the dynamics of the arc. I've never used it but I imagine it makes the pulse on steel a lot nicer. Reading between the lines, this is the 3rd generation of Miller pulse. (1st gen was manually set, 2nd generation had an auto arc length control)
    As Zebediah says, the 1st and 2nd generation pulse processes aren't any better on steel than straight CV, but the newer hybrid pulse programs do offer some advantages.

    If you can't get a machine to run great on steel pulse, don't worry - you haven't missed out on much! And any pulse on aluminium is good IMHO
    Last edited by Munkul; 3 Weeks Ago at 03:38 AM.
    Murphy's Golden Rule: Whoever has the gold, makes the rules.

  15. #13
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    CT
    Posts
    4,439
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Pulse MIG welding question

    Quote Originally Posted by Munkul View Post
    From what i read, you only have two parameters to adjust on the MM255 - wire speed and arc length. This is the same as all earlier Miller pulsed machines.
    Actually there are three parameters I can control in pulse mode: wire feed speed, arc length and arc width (they call it "arc control" in this model). Arc control changes the width of the puddle without changing the arc length. I am guessing it is basically an inductance adjustment, but not 100% sure. I honestly haven't experimented with arc control at all up to this point.

    If you can't get a machine to run great on steel pulse, don't worry - you haven't missed out on much!
    I suspect this machine has the third generation of pulse programming or maybe even something newer. I think the issue is operator error/inexperience more than anything. I was SUPER impressed with pulse mig on 1/4 inch steel. It is very much like running dual shield but without the slag. Part of my problem is my cataracts and other eye issues are getting worse. I need to bite the bullet and get them done.
    Last edited by Louie1961; 3 Weeks Ago at 08:12 AM.
    Miller Multimatic 255

  16. Likes Munkul liked this post
  17. #14
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    CT
    Posts
    4,439
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Pulse MIG welding question

    I just checked..all the same pulse MIG adjustments as the 350P. They even call the sharp arc feature "arc control" now in the latest version of the 350P owners manual
    Miller Multimatic 255

  18. Likes Munkul liked this post
  19. #15
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Location
    Cumbria, UK
    Posts
    1,462
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Pulse MIG welding question

    Ah OK, that's cool.
    I dunno about running like dualshield - normal pulse on steel runs like hard wire spray, it's not positional... Steel just doesn't freeze fast enough unless it's a modified pulse for rooting or uphill.
    Aluminium does though. Running pulse on aluminium makes you feel like a hero. Upside down, inside out, whatever you like, it freezes fast and looks great!
    Murphy's Golden Rule: Whoever has the gold, makes the rules.

  20. Likes lars66 liked this post
  21. #16
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Laredo, Tx
    Posts
    5,861
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Pulse MIG welding question

    Quote Originally Posted by Munkul View Post
    The later Invisions and 350P all have an additional parameter to control, called "sharp arc" which sets the dynamics of the arc.
    Sharp arc is basically the "pulse" version of inductance in standard MIG welding modes on Millers, from what I've read. My pulse MIGs don't have that adjustability in pulse-MIG, but Millers do have that option. Lower Number = "softer", more fluid puddle, less crown height, at the expense of penetration and puddle control. Higher Number = "stiffer", less fluid puddle, more penetration, at the expense of a taller bead/crown height and more ripple'y appearance. It's almost like adjusting the voltage because it controls some bead charateristics, but it differs from raw voltage settings in a few different ways as well.

    https://forum.millerwelds.com/forum/...-arc-on-350mpa

    Doh, hadn't refreshed my page and seen that it was already elaborated on.
    1st on WeldingWeb to have a scrolling sig!



  22. Likes Munkul liked this post
  23. #17
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Location
    Clovis California
    Posts
    2,998
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Pulse MIG welding question

    I have never used pulse welder.
    I only used the trigger and did pulse.

    It would interesting to try a pulse welder , save the finger 😉.

    Dave

    Quote Originally Posted by Louie1961 View Post
    I have been trying to get used to working with Pulse MIG on my Multimatic 255. My question is, is it bad to do gun manipulation while welding in pulse mode? I read one article from ESAB that said gun manipulation could result in a less than ideal weld because the welding machine might not adjust fast enough to the changing arc length from moving back over the bead. My journey with pulsed MIG has kind of gone as follows: I started out with 1/8th coupons (cold rolled steel, no mill scale) and 0.035 wire (Lincoln L56), using the autoset feature, and 90/10 gas. At first I was getting a whole bunch of spatter and really crappy looking beads that were all strung out. After a while I figured out the correct stick out, but the beads were still pretty inconsistent, really thin and I was still getting a lot of crackling and spatter. Next I spent time figuring out the best combinations of wire feed speed and arc length. I was running 155 on the WFS (up from the recommended 150) and an arc length (trim) of 60-67 (out of 100, with the default being 50). Finally I started making some halfway decent beads with no spatter, but I couldn't get the puddle width I wanted for a fillet weld, and was still having trouble with holding a consistent puddle width. I then switched to 0.045 wire (still L56), and the situation got significantly better. But I was still having some trouble getting decent leg size on fillet welds, so I started experimenting with using the cursive "e" technique I normally use on short circuit MIG. There was a tiny bit of crackling and spatter on the back end of the "e" when I transition across the middle, but the beads looked much improved

    Then I transitioned over to 1/4 inch CRS coupons and this welder really came to life! Man, this process is HOT. On 1/4 inch material, all of the autoset settings were almost perfect (150 WFS and 50 arc length). I could make OK beads with plenty of bead width with a straight push (all of my work has been pushing, not pulling), but when I kicked in the cursive "e" the beads came out much better.

    So, what am I doing wrong and is gun manipulation a no-no?

    Once I get better at this, I will need to do some cut and etch samples. Its crazy how much hotter pulse is over short circuit. Almost feels like dual shield hot.

  24. #18
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    CT
    Posts
    4,439
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Pulse MIG welding question

    Quote Originally Posted by smithdoor View Post
    I have never used pulse welder.
    I only used the trigger and did pulse.

    It would interesting to try a pulse welder , save the finger .

    Dave
    This is completely different so save your finger anyway. This is like changing the voltage knob hundreds of times per second.
    Miller Multimatic 255

  25. #19
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Location
    Clovis California
    Posts
    2,998
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Pulse MIG welding question

    It looks great
    But my old work was plate.
    Still try pulse it looks great.

    FYI The chip that makes the pulse was first made 1960's (CI 555) It one of most widely used chip.

    Dave

    Quote Originally Posted by Louie1961 View Post
    This is completely different so save your finger anyway. This is like changing the voltage knob hundreds of times per second.

  26. #20
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    city of Four Flags
    Posts
    2,007
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Pulse MIG welding question

    From the manual,
    C. Weld Status
    When trigger is released on a MIG gun, spool gun, or push-pull gun, the last actual amperage and voltage are shown on the display for 5 seconds. If a
    programmed value requires adjustment after the arc is extinguished and during the 5-second display of actual values, turning either knob will cause
    actual values in the displays to be replaced by programmed values for adjustment purposes

  27. #21
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    CT
    Posts
    4,439
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Pulse MIG welding question

    Well I am finding that making a good bead is as much about having a steady hand as it is finding the right balance of wire feed speed and arc length. This time I went down in WFS by 5 inches per minute and decreased the arc length from 50 to 48, and all of a sudden I started making more consistent beads. These are not the best by any means, but I feel like I am doing as good as my crappy vision will allow. Pulse MIG is cool, but its not easy. If I had some experience with spray MIG, I think it would have been easier to learn. These are 1/4 inch cold rolled coupons, WFS is 245 IPM (045 wire) and arc length is 48. The funny thing about this machine is that the autoset defaults to spray settings when not in pulse mig. It was giving me 27.3 volts at 332 IPM. I am not used to this. The door chart on the MM252 would have me dialing in 20.3 volts and 225 IPM.

    Name:  pulse 1.jpg
Views: 122
Size:  221.0 KB

    Name:  pulse2.jpg
Views: 121
Size:  216.6 KB

    Name:  pulse 3.jpg
Views: 121
Size:  210.0 KB
    Miller Multimatic 255

  28. #22
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Location
    Clovis California
    Posts
    2,998
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Pulse MIG welding question

    Looks great 👍

    Dave

    Quote Originally Posted by Louie1961 View Post
    Well I am finding that making a good bead is as much about having a steady hand as it is finding the right balance of wire feed speed and arc length. This time I went down in WFS by 5 inches per minute and decreased the arc length from 50 to 48, and all of a sudden I started making more consistent beads. These are not the best by any means, but I feel like I am doing as good as my crappy vision will allow. Pulse MIG is cool, but its not easy. If I had some experience with spray MIG, I think it would have been easier to learn. These are 1/4 inch cold rolled coupons, WFS is 245 IPM (045 wire) and arc length is 48. The funny thing about this machine is that the autoset defaults to spray settings when not in pulse mig. It was giving me 27.3 volts at 332 IPM. I am not used to this. The door chart on the MM252 would have me dialing in 20.3 volts and 225 IPM.

    Name:  pulse 1.jpg
Views: 122
Size:  221.0 KB

    Name:  pulse2.jpg
Views: 121
Size:  216.6 KB

    Name:  pulse 3.jpg
Views: 121
Size:  210.0 KB

  29. Likes Louie1961 liked this post
  30. #23
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    CT
    Posts
    4,439
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Pulse MIG welding question

    My latest efforts with 0.045 wire. 1/4 inch and 1/8th inch coupons. Still trying to get used to this process. Autoset works pretty well on 1/4 material, but it really struggles on the 1/8th inch coupons. On 1/8th inch it recommends 150 inches per minute, but I ended up using 181 inches per minute and 120 amps/22.4 volts. This is NOT a forgiving process if your eyes aren't up to snuff. I am having a hard time seeing well enough to run straight beads, where I want them to be. I may give in and have the cataract surgery soon

    Name:  120 inch coupns.jpg
Views: 80
Size:  129.8 KB

    Name:  120 inch coupns2.jpg
Views: 78
Size:  150.9 KB

    Name:  250 inch coupon.jpg
Views: 79
Size:  163.6 KB

    Name:  250 inch coupon2.jpg
Views: 79
Size:  174.9 KB
    Miller Multimatic 255

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Page generated in 1,634,438,810.52746 seconds with 13 queries