Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 34

Thread: Is this weld too cold???

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov 2019
    Location
    North East Ohio
    Posts
    469
    Post Thanks / Like

    Is this weld too cold???

    Almost all of my MIG welds are cursive e style, I also keep the settings at "what the book says". The welds look fine but not the perfect stack of dimes that people like. I was bored and backed down the volts for the second and third picture.
    The material is 3/16 thick tubing with an 1/8 gusset.
    The first picture is at the 19 volts 351 IPM. Note not the sharp edges on the loops. This setting is for 3/16 material.
    The second and third picture is 18.3 volts and 293 IPM. Note Sharper edges. This setting is really for 1/8 material.
    Neither picture is my prettiest work, just typical. Ascetics is not important for this job, the application is to hold lights for a light tunnel you drive through.
    Customer is always happy I have made probably 1,000 of these things.
    The question is does the second third picture look too cold?
    Attached Images Attached Images    
    Last edited by Reebz; 09-21-2021 at 11:26 PM.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Location
    Clovis California
    Posts
    3,575
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Is this weld too cold???

    It looks like solid wire.
    If looking for better weld use flux core with gas or no gas.

    The only time used solid wire when at some else shop.

    Dave

    Quote Originally Posted by Reebz View Post
    Almost all of my MIG welds are cursive e style, I also keep the settings at "what the book says". The welds look fine but not the perfect stack of dimes that people like. I was bored and backed down the volts for the second and third picture.
    The material is 3/16 thick tubing with an 1/8 gusset.
    The first picture is at the 19 volts 351 IPM. Note not the sharp edges on the loops. This setting is for 3/16 material.
    The second and third picture is 18.3 volts and 293 IPM. Note Sharper edges. This setting is really for 1/8 material.
    Neither picture is my prettiest work, just typical. Ascetics is not important for this job, the application is to hold lights for a light tunnel you drive through.
    Customer is always happy I have made probably 1,000 of these things.
    The question is does the second third picture look too cold?

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    236
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Is this weld too cold???

    Get some small scrap pieces and weld a t joint. Only weld about 1"-1 1/2" . Then put it in a vise and bend the vertical piece back and forth until it breaks. This is called a break test. If the vertical piece breaks off around the weld bead it has good penetration. If the joint breaks across the weld.... Well you know the answer. We have these debates all the time at work and the Weld Inspectors alway settle it with a break test.

  4. Likes Reebz, BD1 liked this post
  5. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2020
    Posts
    19
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Is this weld too cold???

    Tighten up your whip (in your case make smaller e's). The stack of dimes thing is not relevant to GMAW. The science says so. Your welds in the 2nd photo are not wetting out on the toes. This could have to do with your push/pull angle as well as voltage/amperage settings.
    Lincoln 275 Squarewave
    Lincoln SP 250

  6. Likes Reebz, Louie1961 liked this post
  7. #5
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    CT
    Posts
    4,537
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Is this weld too cold???

    Not so much "too cold" as you are stepping out too far as you start a new cursive "e". Volts controls the shape of the bead not the penetration. Wire feed speed controls the amps and thus the heat. Decreasing the volts causes the weld to pile up or crown more, increasing the volts causes the weld to flatten. so too cold doesn't seem to be the issue to me. I like the way the toes wet in on the first picture (recommended settings). I think what you really want to do is make narrower "e"s and get the dimes to sit closer together. The way you are doing it now the welds almost look like a string of tack welds. Just tighten up the loops, use your recommended settings and maybe proceed just a tad slower and I think you will be really pleased with the result.
    Miller Multimatic 255

  8. Likes Reebz, scsmith42 liked this post
  9. #6
    Join Date
    Nov 2019
    Location
    North East Ohio
    Posts
    469
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Is this weld too cold???

    Thanks Guys. I will tighten the loop and slow down. These pictures are after a long day and screwing around trying "to get the look".

  10. #7
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Location
    Detroit, Michigan
    Posts
    1,108
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Is this weld too cold???

    I still don't know why someone would want a weld that looks good but might be weaker....
    Check out my bench vise website:
    http://mivise.com


    Miller Syncrowave 250DX
    Millermatic 350P with XR AlumaPro
    Miller Regency 200 with 22A feeder and Spoolmatic 3
    Hobart Champion Elite
    Everlast PowerTig 210EXT

  11. #8
    Join Date
    Nov 2019
    Location
    North East Ohio
    Posts
    469
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Is this weld too cold???

    Quote Originally Posted by G-ManBart View Post
    I still don't know why someone would want a weld that looks good but might be weaker....
    I get what you are saying and agree. I said it was typical work for me that is inaccurate I was experimenting and dragging *** tired. I will post my typical at the end of the day. But I'm still dragging ***. lol
    Last edited by Reebz; 09-22-2021 at 12:45 PM.

  12. #9
    Join Date
    Nov 2019
    Location
    North East Ohio
    Posts
    469
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Is this weld too cold???

    I think I'm back on track. I'm not really trying the stack of dimes look here.
    Attached Images Attached Images  

  13. Likes Louie1961, Lis2323 liked this post
  14. #10
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    CT
    Posts
    4,537
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Is this weld too cold???

    looks much better
    Miller Multimatic 255

  15. #11
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    289
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Is this weld too cold???

    Those welds are just sitting on top of the plate. And although very decorative, Like tig welds.
    But they have very little structural strength, Load bearing mig welds should be burned into the plate
    and smooth and flat on the top

  16. #12
    Join Date
    Nov 2019
    Location
    North East Ohio
    Posts
    469
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Is this weld too cold???

    Quote Originally Posted by Josey View Post
    Those welds are just sitting on top of the plate. And although very decorative, Like tig welds.
    But they have very little structural strength, Load bearing mig welds should be burned into the plate
    and smooth and flat on the top
    Josey I will snap another picture from a different angle. I think they are burned in.

  17. #13
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    CT
    Posts
    4,537
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Is this weld too cold???

    Quote Originally Posted by Josey View Post
    Those welds are just sitting on top of the plate. And although very decorative, Like tig welds.
    But they have very little structural strength, Load bearing mig welds should be burned into the plate
    and smooth and flat on the top

    You can't tell that from those pics. Those toes in the first pic are wetted in nicely.
    Miller Multimatic 255

  18. Likes Munkul liked this post
  19. #14
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Illinois
    Posts
    9,806
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Is this weld too cold???

    Mig can make beautiful looking welds.
    As stated, do a bend test.
    Ive repaired factory welds where the weld was only laying on top. The latest was a farm 3 point backblade. It still lasted for years.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  20. Likes vpd66 liked this post
  21. #15
    Join Date
    Nov 2019
    Location
    North East Ohio
    Posts
    469
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Is this weld too cold???

    Here is a different angle, not the prettiest weld.
    Attached Images Attached Images  

  22. #16
    Join Date
    Nov 2019
    Location
    North East Ohio
    Posts
    469
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Is this weld too cold???

    So T joint bend test Thursday. What is your method?

  23. #17
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    CT
    Posts
    4,537
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Is this weld too cold???

    Or cut and etch

  24. #18
    Join Date
    Nov 2019
    Location
    North East Ohio
    Posts
    469
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Is this weld too cold???

    I need to look up what to etch with

  25. #19
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    3,146
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Is this weld too cold???

    Quote Originally Posted by Reebz View Post
    So T joint bend test Thursday. What is your method?
    Google is your friend.







    Quote Originally Posted by Reebz View Post
    I need to look up what to etch with
    Many if not most acids work. I'd try "The Works" toilet cleaner (hydrochloric acid).

  26. Likes _Weldman_ liked this post
  27. #20
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    CT
    Posts
    4,537
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Is this weld too cold???

    Naval jelly works, just slowly. Oven cleaner works too

  28. #21
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    W. Wisc
    Posts
    650
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Is this weld too cold???

    The horizontal weld in post #9 looks cold on the side with the plate with the hole in it, to me. I'm good at making cold welds so should know!

    You can etch with most acids. Vinegar will even do it super slow. I used some Ospho recently as it was handy and that worked well after a couple minutes contact. Naval jelly should do it and easy to find in hardware stores too.
    -Dave
    XMT304 with: 22A Feeder, or HF251 Hi Freq DC TIG air cooled

  29. #22
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Location
    Cumbria, UK
    Posts
    1,607
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Is this weld too cold???

    I think your settings look good, maybe slightly cold (hard to tell) but you're travelling too slow. The bead is bigger than it needs to be.

    IMHO mig on steel should be pretty smooth, the dimed look is generally an indication of to much manipulation, too low a wire speed and not enough straight welding. If you're welding on the flat, turn it up and travel faster.
    Murphy's Golden Rule: Whoever has the gold, makes the rules.

  30. Likes vpd66, Welder Dave liked this post
  31. #23
    Join Date
    Dec 2018
    Location
    Southern California
    Posts
    939
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Is this weld too cold???

    I would cut and etch some samples to be sure. You might be surprised what you find.

    Like mentioned before any acid works to etch, the weaker acids just take longer to do so (even household vinegar works) .

    Looks like you're not getting root penetration (the main problem in penetration vs fillet weld) by the way the ends are rolled over the steel and not wet in.

    Gun manipulation can cause you to keep the arc too far back in the puddle and not burn into the base steel corner root - This is why many people recommend stringers.

    When manipulating the gun make sure you are burning into the root of the steel and THEN filling in after it. When I weave I tend to just trace the leading edge of the puddle (progressing half moon or V shape depending), making sure i am melting into the corner of the base steel.

    Fillet IMO welds are the easiest to look sound, but not have proper penetration at the root.

    I know I've made plenty of great looking fillet welds with the toes beautifully wet in and everything - only to cut and etch and see zero root penetration.

    Best of luck!

  32. #24
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    3,822
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Is this weld too cold???

    I agree with Munkul, your settings look good. You just have to speed up a bit. Maybe use slightly more of a push angle. I don't do cursive E's but twist my wrist side to side slowly to get good wetting at the toes. Arc should be close to the leading edge of the puddle to ensure good fusion.

  33. #25
    Join Date
    Nov 2019
    Location
    North East Ohio
    Posts
    469
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Is this weld too cold???

    Quote Originally Posted by Munkul View Post
    I think your settings look good, maybe slightly cold (hard to tell) but you're travelling too slow. The bead is bigger than it needs to be.

    IMHO mig on steel should be pretty smooth, the dimed look is generally an indication of to much manipulation, too low a wire speed and not enough straight welding. If you're welding on the flat, turn it up and travel faster.
    I agree, I just loaded the truck with 200 finished pieces. The ones I took pictures of are not my typical work as I stated before, I think I was just tired and had poor gun angle and tried to compensate with going slower. I think I did this subconsciously, hell if I know at this point.
    I always check my work when once I'm done welding it and before I load it. I pulled 6 pieces all from that days batch.
    When I started back up in the morning I felt like my old self and had nice "wet toes".
    I have another 100 to go and will take a picture or two.
    Weird how you forget the basics when tired.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Page generated in 1,638,787,673.86561 seconds with 13 queries