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Thread: Pin Spanner

  1. #76
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    Re: Pin Spanner

    Quote Originally Posted by farmersammm View Post
    My 1960's vintage Dodge trucks had external bands on the parking brake drum at the rear of the transmission. This material, similar if not identical, is still available.

    https://www.mcmaster.com/brake-lining/

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/28430008603...827517d75e43be This guy also carries rivets, and the tools necessary to do the job I guess.
    Yep... but you have to reline them before the bands snap.... and if they get tangled on anything you're kinda hooped. Thanks for the link though...
    The harder you fall, the higher you bounce...

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  3. #77
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    Re: Pin Spanner

    I'm thinking that if they're snapping, they might be simple mild steel. I can't imagine any tempered steel snapping, although I guess it's possible over time what with the constant fatigue.

    If a guy formed his radius, and the braking system didn't really do much more than tighten the radius a bit, I bet he could get away with mild................dunno??????????

    I have brokes on my tractorsName:  mutley.gif
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  5. #78
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    Re: Pin Spanner

    I might have to deal with it some day, but for now I've got a good enough spare parts stash to keep me going. Those old swathers pretty much go for scrap but now that scrap prices are so high, they're getting harder to find. I was going to do a cleanup in the old cow pasture this summer, but I've missed the $600/tonne stuff for now.
    The harder you fall, the higher you bounce...

    250 amp Miller DialArc AC/DC Stick
    F-225 amp Forney AC Stick
    230 amp Sears AC Stick
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  6. #79
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    Re: Pin Spanner

    The helix was so torn up on the shaft thread that it was unrepairable. As per earlier suggestions, I guess it's time to admit that I gotta just start over with new thread.

    Cut the shaft down to clean material, make a nut, then do the shaft thread I guess. Waiting on some 12L14 to make a thread gauge for the nut. None of my stuff, on hand, is correct diameter. I have some larger dia stuff, but I don't want to cut it down this much.

    I found that the thread fitting problem with the steel/aluminum wasn't because of the aluminum...............it was because trying to use an 18" long shaft for a go/no go gauge, is damn near impossible. You never really get everything straight, and the weight of the shaft throws the thread fit off because it's trying to **** in there. I guess you never quit learning new things.

    The new thread is gonna be a weird diameter, NON standard. I'm just going to clean up enough to get down to virgin material. I'm thinking that the next nominal size down (1.50 diameter) ain't gonna happen. The original thread is 1 9/16-18..........not sure there's gonna be enough material left on the shaft to make 1.5" diameter. I might wind up with something like 1.450", or something like that. Minor diameter on the existing thread should be somewhere around 1.4949, so I might be able to turn it down to within 1.50 nominal thread specs. If so.........cool!

    Nuts aren't available for 1 1/2-18, so a custom nut has to be made. Even if a nut were available, the outside diameter of the thing would be wrong. I have to be at 2 1/2" diameter to match the locking tab washer. I have the material on hand for the nut.............I was thinking this might happen. 2.50 dia 12L14.

    I'm anal enough to measure pitch diameter when threading. Always have since I started threading. Don't have a 1-2" thread mic, so this is the perfect excuse to get one Mine only goes to 1".

    Make yer wise comments I don't care I buy nuts/bolts in bulk from Atwoods. Lately, I have to return a lot of stuff because different production lots don't fit properly.....................damn nut won't fit the bolt. There's no standardization anymore with this imported crap. So............a thread mic is a nice thing to have. When I first started threading, I used to just use a nut to gauge the threads..........then I'd find that another nut might not fit the thread I cut. Do your pitch diameter right, and you cut down on the probability of that happening. And...........YA FEEL LIKE A FRIGGIN' PRO WHEN YA USE A THREAD MIC

    No..........I don't like the wire method. My hands don't work right anymore,, so it's just an exercise in frustration.

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    Got other stuff to do while waiting on all the stuff to arrive. The only additional expense (for Oxford1) is the $20 for the 12L14. Tooling isn't an absolute expense........it gets spread over other projects. And, K'kins gets it all back at the estate sale

  7. #80
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    Re: Pin Spanner

    If your making an entirely different thread, the threads per inch is pretty irrelevant.

  8. #81
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    Re: Pin Spanner

    Quote Originally Posted by M J D View Post
    If your making an entirely different thread, the threads per inch is pretty irrelevant.
    your missing the point, this is a valid excuse to go buy another tool, the post is just his justification to himself and the better 3/4's of why he needed a new tool

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  10. #82
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    Re: Pin Spanner

    Quote Originally Posted by ghost_walker View Post
    your missing the point, this is a valid excuse to go buy another tool, the post is just his justification to himself and the better 3/4's of why he needed a new tool
    I know. That thing would have been done months ago and presently collecting cobwebs if anyone else repaired it. I understand the need for precision and worn out ag equipment isn't that place. It's kind of like a train wreck. You know you shouldn't look but you have to just to see how bad it gets.

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  12. #83
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    Re: Pin Spanner

    Quote Originally Posted by M J D View Post
    If your making an entirely different thread, the threads per inch is pretty irrelevant.
    TPI really doesn't matter, but fit does. Pitch diameter is all about the fit tolerance between internal/external threads.

    Name:  carbide threading34a.jpg
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Size:  193.5 KB A guy could use thread depth as the final number, but you'd have to have an absolutely precise flat on the tip of the threading tool.

    If you go too deep/shallow on thread depth, you can have fit problems as well as a possible lack of strength.

    The only reliable measure is the pitch diameter. A theoretical 1/2 the distance between the pitch crowns, or 1/2 the distance between the crown and root of the thread.

    On this job, I could just advance the tool to the minor diameter, and call it good. But, if the profile of the tool is off, the thread is not where it's supposed to be in terms of mating with a standard nut. This becomes important when cutting a standard thread that has to mate with a standard nut.

    I agree.............I could get by without this fancy schmancy stuff, but if it's doable to do it right....why not? About 99% of my threading has to do with making threads for off-the-shelf nuts, which theoretically(nowdays) should be made to an ISO spec. So..........using one nut to gauge thread, and expect it to fit all the nuts in the universe, could be a gamble. I used to have a perfect fit on a nut, and another nut would bind. I got fed up with it, and went to measuring pitch diameter.

    It literally only takes a few seconds to find your pitch diameter.

    On this job, I'll make the nut first, then use it to gauge the thread on the shaft. It doesn't matter if this shaft fits any other nut in the universe..........as it's a custom thread, there will only be one nut that ever fits it. I can cut thread for a snug fit, and not worry about it.

    To make the nut, I need a thread gauge. This is just a threaded piece of stock made to standards. If it fits the new nut, I'm good to go. And.......because the nut is only 1/4-3/8 deep..........a small easily handled gauge is better than trying to thread the shaft into the nut to size the threads. And, I sure don't want to remove the nut from the lathe to try it on the shaft. I want that gauge to be made to standard thread profile. If it's right, everything made, using it as a pattern, will be pretty close to being right.

    Yeah, I'm a moron..........but a well meaning moron

  13. #84
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    Re: Pin Spanner

    Quote Originally Posted by farmersammm View Post
    TPI really doesn't matter, but fit does. Pitch diameter is all about the fit tolerance between internal/external threads.

    Name:  carbide threading34a.jpg
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Size:  193.5 KB A guy could use thread depth as the final number, but you'd have to have an absolutely precise flat on the tip of the threading tool.

    If you go too deep/shallow on thread depth, you can have fit problems as well as a possible lack of strength.

    The only reliable measure is the pitch diameter. A theoretical 1/2 the distance between the pitch crowns, or 1/2 the distance between the crown and root of the thread.

    On this job, I could just advance the tool to the minor diameter, and call it good. But, if the profile of the tool is off, the thread is not where it's supposed to be in terms of mating with a standard nut. This becomes important when cutting a standard thread that has to mate with a standard nut.

    I agree.............I could get by without this fancy schmancy stuff, but if it's doable to do it right....why not? About 99% of my threading has to do with making threads for off-the-shelf nuts, which theoretically(nowdays) should be made to an ISO spec. So..........using one nut to gauge thread, and expect it to fit all the nuts in the universe, could be a gamble. I used to have a perfect fit on a nut, and another nut would bind. I got fed up with it, and went to measuring pitch diameter.

    It literally only takes a few seconds to find your pitch diameter.

    On this job, I'll make the nut first, then use it to gauge the thread on the shaft. It doesn't matter if this shaft fits any other nut in the universe..........as it's a custom thread, there will only be one nut that ever fits it. I can cut thread for a snug fit, and not worry about it.

    To make the nut, I need a thread gauge. This is just a threaded piece of stock made to standards. If it fits the new nut, I'm good to go. And.......because the nut is only 1/4-3/8 deep..........a small easily handled gauge is better than trying to thread the shaft into the nut to size the threads. And, I sure don't want to remove the nut from the lathe to try it on the shaft. I want that gauge to be made to standard thread profile. If it's right, everything made, using it as a pattern, will be pretty close to being right.

    Yeah, I'm a moron..........but a well meaning moron
    Yes fit is important. What I was getting at is if there is nut available in a diameter that's usable maybe in metric if you can thread that, would provide a more durable thread than 12L 14. The only problem I see with making a nut first, is that it's harder to visually see the " crest" of the threads. Either way , absolutely do not want to remove anything until your sure of the thread, regarding depth. I've never used a dedicated thread gauge as they are expensive, such as the go, no go gauge. I do keep dedicated and marked USA made nuts that I use to gauge and single point threads. With that being said I use a quality tap or die whenever possible.

  14. #85
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    Re: Pin Spanner

    Quote Originally Posted by M J D View Post
    Yes fit is important. What I was getting at is if there is nut available in a diameter that's usable maybe in metric if you can thread that, would provide a more durable thread than 12L 14. The only problem I see with making a nut first, is that it's harder to visually see the " crest" of the threads. Either way , absolutely do not want to remove anything until your sure of the thread, regarding depth. I've never used a dedicated thread gauge as they are expensive, such as the go, no go gauge. I do keep dedicated and marked USA made nuts that I use to gauge and single point threads. With that being said I use a quality tap or die whenever possible.
    I get a little carried away,, so you're not completely out of line

    I'm not sure whether there's a Metric, 4 slot, nut out there, near the size I'm looking at. These nuts get sort of few, and far, between when it comes to 18TPI. I'm pretty sure I need 18TPI when it comes to setting bearing end play.

    If you blue your part when cutting internal thread, you can see when you're getting close. A thin strip of the blue stays on the crown of the thread, and gets narrower when you're almost there.

    I chose the 12L14 because it machines like a dream, and it's fairly strong when compared to 1018. It's around 70K tensile, and in the 50K yield range. Stressproof would have been the best, but it's out of sight price wise.

    I believe 12L14 is used on a lot of hydraulic fittings, and for some fasteners, so it's not too far out of the ballpark for what I need it for I'm thinking.

    Anyways........I can start on the pipe stands while I'm waiting for the stuff to arrive. The steel is the worst, it comes out of Michigan I think, and always takes forever to get here. The micrometer ought to be here by Tuesday next week.

  15. #86
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    Re: Pin Spanner

    I've done the dykem thing as well. It probably isn't as bad to see what's going on with that relatively large threaded internal diameter. Get down to a 3/4 or 5/8" and it can be really hard to judge internal thread fit without some sort of threaded gauge. I suppose with a " custom," thread diameter your in a what comes first, the chicken or the egg scenario. Finer thread would definitely make preload adjustment easier, unfortunately it's harder to get the " fit' just right.

  16. #87
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    Re: Pin Spanner

    Sam, maybe get urself a set of thread measuring wires (there cheap) , and use a regular mic. , theres a easy to use chart u reference it too, it a very accurate way to measure, as they usually seat in the crucial area u pointing out. its the only way i ever measure. takes a lil coordination, and can fumbly , till u get hang of it

  17. #88
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    Re: Pin Spanner

    BUE Hoo


    I was saying that I didn't like the way the metal builds up on the edge of the turning tool, so I looked around for a solution. Which for me, there ain't any. I'm not running coolant on this nice machine. Some say that WD-40 works good as a lube on aluminum,, but I ain't gonna use that stuff in a small enclosed area.

    I came across an article that explains BUE (The gotta name for everything)

    https://www.canadianmetalworking.com...u-run-uncoated It's just one of many articles addressing the problem.

    It's the reason I switched to a quickie ground HSS bit for turning this stuff. Few minutes, no real time spent on it.........didn't even radius the tip. I figured it was just gonna get ruined anyways. Which it did.

    Name:  spanner33.jpg
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Size:  191.3 KB I suppose I could increase the rake on the leading edge............it might help with the problem, more of a shearing action. But I don't intend to work with this stuff much, so it's no biggie. At least I didn't ruin another good carbide insert.

  18. #89
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    Re: Pin Spanner

    Weird... In the early 90's I worked for a hydraulic shop part time and turned and threaded a lot of aluminum cylinder parts with insert bits in a QC tool holder, never had a problem including internal threading. Mostly a feed and speed thing I guess.

  19. #90
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    Re: Pin Spanner

    That could be.................... I never run over 460rpm, and my lathe starts to puke at anything over about .035 depth of cut. It ain't a Monarch

    I have no idea whether the round stock is extruded, or cold drawn. Matter of fact, I don't even know for a fact that it's 6061 T6. I generally, as a whole, don't know diddly about aluminum of any kind. I just don't use it for anything at all.

  20. #91
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    Re: Pin Spanner

    Quote Originally Posted by farmersammm View Post
    That could be.................... I never run over 460rpm, and my lathe starts to puke at anything over about .035 depth of cut. It ain't a Monarch

    I have no idea whether the round stock is extruded, or cold drawn. Matter of fact, I don't even know for a fact that it's 6061 T6. I generally, as a whole, don't know diddly about aluminum of any kind. I just don't use it for anything at all.
    Yeah that's running way to slow, IIRC on 3" diameter stuff I was around 1200 rpm. I don't know the alloys we were using but the inserts peeled it right off. seemed like you wanted to be under the center line too unless you were facing off.

  21. #92
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    Re: Pin Spanner

    After all the work I put in rebuilding that spindle, I'm not sure I could bear turning the thing up to 1200rpm I'm the Moto to my machine tools, like he is to his trucks

  22. #93
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    Re: Pin Spanner


    As I figured, speed has nothing to do with edge buildup. It's all about using coolant, and an insert developed for aluminum.............which doesn't always work without coolant either.

    So, in retrospect..................my quickie grind did better than most inserts, and as well as some of the dedicated aluminum inserts. When run dry. But running it dry made for a nasty edge buildup.

    I've always experienced speed affecting surface finish, and chip formation (with carbide inserts), when turning steel. You can still get a nice finish on steel at low rpm's if you use a razor sharp HSS bit ground to shear instead of cut at the point.

    I think a lot of the "speed" thing is a result of production demands. They need inserts that can stand the heat, and hog a lot of material. And, the inserts are designed to leave a nice finish at high speed/feed rates.

    Metal is some funny stuff I guess
    Last edited by farmersammm; 10-09-2021 at 11:13 AM. Reason: removed an incorrect sentence

  23. #94
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    Re: Pin Spanner

    Aluminum is more like working with wood than it is like working with steel. More speed, more feed and more clearance on cutting edges. Coolant and or lubricant is mainly to prevent chip welding.

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  25. #95
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    Re: Pin Spanner

    It's been years since I machined anything. I went to trade school for it, but I always remembered running aluminium at a faster speed than regular steel material.

    Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

  26. #96
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    Re: Pin Spanner

    Aluminum is run at higher speeds because it can be run at higher speeds. It's all about production. This doesn't change the fact that aluminum is prone to a built up edge on the cutting tool..............at any speed.

    Before carbide tooling was introduced, steel was run at a relatively slow speed.......................then carbide came about, and the speeds increased many times. Not because it was necessary, but because it was a way to make more money by turning out parts faster. And,, because carbide tooling is relatively dull, it took greater speeds to create a good finish.

    https://materialsdata.nist.gov/bitst...=3&isAllowed=y Nowhere does any industry literature talk about speed as a way to reduce tool wear,, or other problems (including built up edge). It talks about overcoming the problems that increased speed produces. Particularly about the use of coolant, and increased rake angles. Aluminum is 1018 on steroids when it comes to fighting the gummy nature of the material.

    https://www.mmsonline.com/articles/m...ss%20unchanged.

  27. #97
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    Re: Pin Spanner

    Ok I get it now after having problems machining 1 piece of aluminum you are now the " guru" to all things that work when dealing with aluminum.🤣

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  29. #98
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    Re: Pin Spanner

    Quote Originally Posted by farmersammm View Post
    Aluminum is run at higher speeds because it can be run at higher speeds. It's all about production. This doesn't change the fact that aluminum is prone to a built up edge on the cutting tool..............at any speed.

    Before carbide tooling was introduced, steel was run at a relatively slow speed.......................then carbide came about, and the speeds increased many times. Not because it was necessary, but because it was a way to make more money by turning out parts faster. And,, because carbide tooling is relatively dull, it took greater speeds to create a good finish.

    https://materialsdata.nist.gov/bitst...=3&isAllowed=y Nowhere does any industry literature talk about speed as a way to reduce tool wear,, or other problems (including built up edge). It talks about overcoming the problems that increased speed produces. Particularly about the use of coolant, and increased rake angles. Aluminum is 1018 on steroids when it comes to fighting the gummy nature of the material.

    https://www.mmsonline.com/articles/m...ss%20unchanged.
    I never worked at a production shop.....just a two year tech school. Also was taught by a man with 40 years experience in a machine shop setting. Just saying.

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  30. #99
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    Re: Pin Spanner

    Have you finished repairing that bush hog shaft yet, or what?
    Murphy's Golden Rule: Whoever has the gold, makes the rules.

  31. #100
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    Re: Pin Spanner

    Quote Originally Posted by Munkul View Post
    Have you finished repairing that bush hog shaft yet, or what?
    12L14 just cleared the Detroit postal center yesterday(Saturday), should be here next week. Just treading water till I can make a plug gauge.

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