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Thread: 16 Hours of GMAW Training/Instruction?

  1. #76
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    Re: 16 Hours of GMAW Training/Instruction?

    Quote Originally Posted by Willie B View Post
    A table makes a good early project Thicker the better, but damned heavy.

    Walter makes a disc built for mill scale & rust.
    Just looked up that Walter disc, looks perfect for my needs. The grinding wheel takes a lot of material off, going to end up with a super thing table lol.

  2. #77
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    Re: 16 Hours of GMAW Training/Instruction?

    Go, Go to every class even if its bad. You will learn something maybe from a class mate.
    Its just a little time and money, go

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    Re: 16 Hours of GMAW Training/Instruction?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ambull01 View Post
    Yeah I need to clean up this garage and throw more crap away. Don't want to start a fire and burn everything down. I'll have to look into screwing in pieces of sheet metal to the walls or something to create a fireproof barrier near the welding table.



    Ah I see, thanks for that explanation. Guess that's why the instructor said stick welding was the hardest to learn, you control everything vs the machine doing it for you. I would like to try stick and TIG welding one day but don't want to buy more welding machines. I may have to sign up for the stick and TIG classes at the school I just attended.

    Do you know of joints/weld types that go from easiest to hardest? I'll focus most of my practice time on just flat welds to get the hang of it then maybe do some fillet welds and really practice stacking beads and blending. After that maybe some vertical up and vertical down. Not sure what else to do after that though.

    The welding table I have is only 1/8" steel and has surface rust just about everywhere. I'm taking a cup style wire brush to it and a grinding wheel to take off all the rust. It's a huge pain, should have passed on this table. I want to put a 1/4" steel plate on the table top but not sure if this table will be able to hold it lol. I may have to experiment with reinforcing the legs and table frame to support 1/4" plates.
    Stick welding should be pretty easy to learn now that you understand a bit how welding works. Its all about reading the puddle and adjusting to what its telling you. Any open root joint in any positioin with any process is probly more difficult than anything, when learning it you tend to blow through and create a big keyhole in it. Again its all about watchin the puddle and making you adjustment to what its telling you.

  4. #79
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    Re: 16 Hours of GMAW Training/Instruction?

    Quote Originally Posted by Reebz View Post
    Go, Go to every class even if its bad. You will learn something maybe from a class mate.
    Its just a little time and money, go
    I will most likely, maybe in the spring or late winter. I want to really dig in to MIG welding right now and practice at least a little everyday.

    Quote Originally Posted by old miner called Pop View Post
    Stick welding should be pretty easy to learn now that you understand a bit how welding works. Its all about reading the puddle and adjusting to what its telling you. Any open root joint in any positioin with any process is probly more difficult than anything, when learning it you tend to blow through and create a big keyhole in it. Again its all about watchin the puddle and making you adjustment to what its telling you.
    Just tried to do a t-joint. Tacked the ends then tried to run a bead and totally missed the joint lol. I tried that gentle back and forth rocking motion I saw on a Weld.com video on Youtube. I think I like it more than drawing Cs.

  5. #80
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    Re: 16 Hours of GMAW Training/Instruction?

    I have SOO much work to do with this stupid table, fml. I'll be working on this **** for a week or so I think.
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    I'm trying to get the top to bare metal and I'll wire brush the rest of table and maybe paint it with black Rust Oleum paint. I hopefully that Walter disc cuts this rust away faster than my grinding disc.

    Also, was hoping I could use the existing 120 volt plug in my garage but the welder tripped the breaker. From what I can see it's just the garage and dishwasher on that circuit (looks like it's two separate breakers too).

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    It's the breaker switches on the bottom left. 15amps so figured it would suffice. I had the welder on the highest volt setting (number 7) to weld on the 1/8" t-joint. The Hobart cover said that's the starting setting so was going to test it out and adjust from there. Guess I'll have my electrician install a 50amp 240 volt breaker/plug and a 20 amp 115 volt. Cost for the 50 amp is $250 and the 20 is another $150 so $400 total. Wish I could do it myself but I don't like to mess with electrical stuff besides really simple things like new wall receptacles, ceiling fans, etc.

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    Re: 16 Hours of GMAW Training/Instruction?

    As long as that table is flat all I would do is wire wheel it and call it good, grind it, sand it, make it shine like a mirror or whatever it gonna get hogged up and rusty all over again. As long as its flat and you can get a good ground on it your good to go.

  7. #82
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    Re: 16 Hours of GMAW Training/Instruction?

    Quote Originally Posted by old miner called Pop View Post
    As long as that table is flat all I would do is wire wheel it and call it good, grind it, sand it, make it shine like a mirror or whatever it gonna get hogged up and rusty all over again. As long as its flat and you can get a good ground on it your good to go.
    **** I thought I needed the table top shiny metal to get a good connection with the work lead. So just wire wheel all the heavy, flaky rust off and I'll be good to go? The wire wheel is a hell of a lot faster.

    Once I put the table together I'll put my carpenter level on the table top and make sure it's nice and straight/leveled. I want to finish this table as fast as possible so I can just concentrate on practicing welding.

  8. #83
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    Re: 16 Hours of GMAW Training/Instruction?

    I'm an electrician. Copper scrap accumulates over the years. I sometimes load the truck with scrap. Once, the buyer had some copper bricks. I bought what they had. They are incredible for grounding a weldment on the table. They also provide gravity clamping action & I sometimes use them as steady rests for TIG welding.
    An optimist is usually wrong, and when the unexpected happens is unprepared. A pessimist is usually right, when wrong, is delighted, and well prepared.

  9. #84
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    Re: 16 Hours of GMAW Training/Instruction?

    Quote Originally Posted by old miner called Pop View Post
    He probly wont, except for maybe experimenting with some overhead work. I wear a full leather jacket in the winter a lot, keeps my old bones a bit warmer. Workin outside in the winter can be brutal but I would still rather work outside than in a shop, outside I get myself goin better and nobody bothers me at all when im outside, except maybe to see if i need anything or if Im still alive. Lots of times I see no one for days at a time, I like it that way, I just in my own groove and run with it.

    In the summer I just wear heavy denim or cotton work shirts over a t shirt, unless im directly under somethin doin heavy gouging or welding, and in most cases its one of those jackets I told him about
    I wish I could do justice with a picture. Overhead welding is not an everyday thing for me. If you can work in a leather jacket I deeply respect you. I swelter until the air is down below 40 degrees.

    Three layers of cotton, long sleeve t shirt, "River Driver's Shirt" & heavy cotton sweatshirt. I got a few holes through clothing & skin. Leather boots have a synthetic liner. Somehow I got a hunk of slag inside a boot. I reasoned it'd cool soon. When it didn't, I got busy removing. I have a slag shaped hole in my sock, boot liner, & scorched into my leg.

    Something magical about overhead welding, I'm amazed when it doesn't drip! I can't say I like the spatter, or slag coming down on me. It's late October, maybe I ought to buy some leathers.
    An optimist is usually wrong, and when the unexpected happens is unprepared. A pessimist is usually right, when wrong, is delighted, and well prepared.

  10. #85
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    Re: 16 Hours of GMAW Training/Instruction?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ambull01 View Post
    **** I thought I needed the table top shiny metal to get a good connection with the work lead. So just wire wheel all the heavy, flaky rust off and I'll be good to go? The wire wheel is a hell of a lot faster.

    Once I put the table together I'll put my carpenter level on the table top and make sure it's nice and straight/leveled. I want to finish this table as fast as possible so I can just concentrate on practicing welding.
    No it dont have to be shiny and all that, just knock the rust off with a wire wheel, if you want to shine up a spot to clamp your ground to sure go ahead but its not needed. Ive seen and done enough welding on dirty rusty oily crap that would have took 3 days and one of those cleaning contractors to get it off and it worked out fine. Frank used to say hell anybody can weld on nice clean new steel...takes a real welder to weld through this stuff. Im talkin sulfur in the steel from the coal dirt, rust, mud, grease oil and whatever else it got into

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    Re: 16 Hours of GMAW Training/Instruction?

    Quote Originally Posted by Willie B View Post
    I wish I could do justice with a picture. Overhead welding is not an everyday thing for me. If you can work in a leather jacket I deeply respect you. I swelter until the air is down below 40 degrees.

    Three layers of cotton, long sleeve t shirt, "River Driver's Shirt" & heavy cotton sweatshirt. I got a few holes through clothing & skin. Leather boots have a synthetic liner. Somehow I got a hunk of slag inside a boot. I reasoned it'd cool soon. When it didn't, I got busy removing. I have a slag shaped hole in my sock, boot liner, & scorched into my leg.

    Something magical about overhead welding, I'm amazed when it doesn't drip! I can't say I like the spatter, or slag coming down on me. It's late October, maybe I ought to buy some leathers.
    My problem with overhead work is when I got it goin on good I get too damn greedy and dont want to stop, then I end up directly under it and the splatter drops down on me, or that nice long piece of slag thats been peeling off the last 2 minutes drops down on me and I end up with a nasty burn I desribed in the earlier post. Like my throat or my nose when I flip my hood up, that one finally healed up it was ugly for a few days but hey I never in my life won a beauty contest.

    THose copper bricks you talk about...where could I find somethin like that? I have some uses for a few them
    Last edited by old miner called Pop; 10-26-2021 at 04:46 AM.

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    Re: 16 Hours of GMAW Training/Instruction?

    Quote Originally Posted by old miner called Pop View Post
    My problem with overhead work is when I got it goin on good I get too damn greedy and dont want to stop, then I end up directly under it and the splatter drops down on me, or that nice long piece of slag thats been peeling off the last 2 minutes drops down on me and I end up with a nasty burn I desribed in the earlier post. Like my throat or my nose when I flip my hood up, that one finally healed up it was ugly for a few days but hey I never in my life won a beauty contest.

    THose copper bricks you talk about...where could I find somethin like that? I have some uses for a few them
    I can't say where they came from. Scrap dealer had a few sizes in the bottom of an open topped tote. I grabbed them.
    An optimist is usually wrong, and when the unexpected happens is unprepared. A pessimist is usually right, when wrong, is delighted, and well prepared.

  13. #88
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    Re: 16 Hours of GMAW Training/Instruction?

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    Long one & other is 1-1/2" square. I have a radiused corner for making boxes of 16 gauge aluminum. Clamp them inside the corner while welding the outside corner, it traps gas & makes a heat sink to limit distortion.

    All were milled to precisely square on each corner.
    An optimist is usually wrong, and when the unexpected happens is unprepared. A pessimist is usually right, when wrong, is delighted, and well prepared.

  14. #89
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    Re: 16 Hours of GMAW Training/Instruction?

    Quote Originally Posted by old miner called Pop View Post
    No it dont have to be shiny and all that, just knock the rust off with a wire wheel, if you want to shine up a spot to clamp your ground to sure go ahead but its not needed. Ive seen and done enough welding on dirty rusty oily crap that would have took 3 days and one of those cleaning contractors to get it off and it worked out fine. Frank used to say hell anybody can weld on nice clean new steel...takes a real welder to weld through this stuff. Im talkin sulfur in the steel from the coal dirt, rust, mud, grease oil and whatever else it got into
    Oh hell yes, thanks for letting me know that! I'll be finished wire wheeling this table in a day or so vs a week with a grinding wheel. I'll clean it the best I can with the wire wheel then try to practice some beads on it with the flux core wire I have. Looks like someone just put short beads on it to hole the pieces together.

    Quote Originally Posted by Willie B View Post

    Long one & other is 1-1/2" square. I have a radiused corner for making boxes of 16 gauge aluminum. Clamp them inside the corner while welding the outside corner, it traps gas & makes a heat sink to limit distortion.

    All were milled to precisely square on each corner.
    The heat sink thing is fascinating to me, I'll read up on that. That might be a good idea for my future truck panel replacement project. Put some kind of heat sink in the back of the panel but, since I'll just do lots of tacks, I don't know if it would matter.

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    Re: 16 Hours of GMAW Training/Instruction?

    I have another stupid question. Since I'm going to have my electrician put in a 50 amp, 230V receptacle and plug into my garage for my Hobart 210MVP; is there any reason why I should also have him put in a 20 amp, 115V receptacle and plug?

    I only have one receptacle in my garage currently. It's a 15 amp breaker which my Hobart trips whenever I try to run a bead longer than a few seconds, super annoying. Having a higher rated receptacle would be nice I guess but it will be an additional $150 on top of the price for the 50 amp.

    Can the Hobart plugged into a 50amp, 230V receptacle do the same smaller material thickness welds as it would plugged into a 20amp, 115V receptacle? If the only difference is the 230V capability just gives it more power to weld thicker stuff then I'll just go with 50 amp receptacle option.

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    Re: 16 Hours of GMAW Training/Instruction?

    A overhead fillet with 7018 is my favorite weld to make. Not very straight but smooth,,, ha
    Attached Images Attached Images  

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    Re: 16 Hours of GMAW Training/Instruction?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sberry View Post
    A overhead fillet with 7018 is my favorite weld to make. Not very straight but smooth,,, ha
    Oh that's pretty. Do you trace "Cs" when you weld beads or another shape/letter (i.e. Os or something else)?

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    Re: 16 Hours of GMAW Training/Instruction?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ambull01 View Post
    I have another stupid question. Since I'm going to have my electrician put in a 50 amp, 230V receptacle and plug into my garage for my Hobart 210MVP; is there any reason why I should also have him put in a 20 amp, 115V receptacle and plug?

    I only have one receptacle in my garage currently. It's a 15 amp breaker which my Hobart trips whenever I try to run a bead longer than a few seconds, super annoying. Having a higher rated receptacle would be nice I guess but it will be an additional $150 on top of the price for the 50 amp.

    Can the Hobart plugged into a 50amp, 230V receptacle do the same smaller material thickness welds as it would plugged into a 20amp, 115V receptacle? If the only difference is the 230V capability just gives it more power to weld thicker stuff then I'll just go with 50 amp receptacle option.
    I would in case you ever get a larger 110 volt air compressor, table saw or other higher amp draw machine .

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    Re: 16 Hours of GMAW Training/Instruction?

    Quote Originally Posted by M J D View Post
    I would in case you ever get a larger 110 volt air compressor, table saw or other higher amp draw machine .
    A dedicated 20 amp 120 volt receptacle will see plenty of use, but not for your welder. Even a pancake compressor wants one.
    An optimist is usually wrong, and when the unexpected happens is unprepared. A pessimist is usually right, when wrong, is delighted, and well prepared.

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    Re: 16 Hours of GMAW Training/Instruction?

    Yeah good point. The electrician will also have to cut up the drywall, mess with the panel, etc. so may as well have him do everything at once. Doesn't make a lot of sense why they would put in a 15 amp breaker for the garage when that's where most people would plug in their power tools, compressors, etc. Bastards forcing me to spend money on something that should have been installed.

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    Re: 16 Hours of GMAW Training/Instruction?

    For a a heat sink I use Brass bar stock, I have an hunk about 1/2" x 1 1/2" x 12". Good for welding thin stuff to prevent blowing a hole in it. Plus you can put it behind something with a big gap and weld right over it, fill in a hole or something.

    You can get sheets of copper kind of like shim stock, called welding spoons, more flexible then the bar. Great for autobody stuff because you can bend it up on the back of a curved panel at a joint or just filling in holes/ spot welds.



    On the Stick vs Mig. I think stick is more obvious when you are making mistakes. It's really easy to make a nice looking Mig weld that has lack of fusion, and just sits on top of the metal.


    For the point of your welds wondering. Sounds like you may be having a hard time seeing the puddle. Are you may try using a lighter shade or a cheater lens if you wear glasses. I also find that having a bright light shinning on the work helps to see where you are going too.
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    Re: 16 Hours of GMAW Training/Instruction?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ambull01 View Post
    Yeah good point. The electrician will also have to cut up the drywall, mess with the panel, etc. so may as well have him do everything at once. Doesn't make a lot of sense why they would put in a 15 amp breaker for the garage when that's where most people would plug in their power tools, compressors, etc. Bastards forcing me to spend money on something that should have been installed.
    You are mistaken. Residential garages are under no code requirements to provide more than lighting (dim) & the most anemic of outlets. There is a very good chance the electrician who wired your home would not have been awarded the job if he had included power for a dedicated circuit. Residential wiring is a cutthroat business. Do a good job & price it as such, you don't get the job. Residential work is "code minimum" Vermont doesn't inspect private homes. Workmanship is invariably well below "code minimum". The GC needs his profit.

    Truth is here, it's not common for an electrician to wire a private home. I know one contractor built homes averaging $2,000,000. Only time he used an electrician is when the homeowner insisted. Others were wired by carpenters, or plumbers. They typically scrambled to find skilled people to make things work before the homeowner noticed.
    Last edited by Willie B; 10-26-2021 at 08:55 PM.
    An optimist is usually wrong, and when the unexpected happens is unprepared. A pessimist is usually right, when wrong, is delighted, and well prepared.

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  24. #98
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    Re: 16 Hours of GMAW Training/Instruction?

    Quote Originally Posted by Willie B View Post
    You are mistaken. Residential garages are under no code requirements to provide more than lighting (dim) & the most anemic of outlets. There is a very good chance the electrician who wired your home would not have been awarded the job if he had included power for a dedicated circuit. Residential wiring is a cutthroat business. Do a good job & price it as such, you don't get the job. Residential work is "code minimum" Vermont doesn't inspect private homes. Workmanship is invariably well below "code minimum". The GC needs his profit.

    Truth is here, it's not common for an electrician to wire a private home. I know one contractor built homes averaging $2,000,000. Only time he used an electrician is when the homeowner insisted. Others were wired by carpenters, or plumbers. They typically scrambled to find skilled people to make things work before the homeowner noticed.

    Around here you see a lot of this. 1 engineer stamps the plans as a side job, 1 licensed electrician to pull the permits for the jobs, and a few "Helpers" that do all the actual work. Engineer never looks at the plans, the electrician never sets foot on the job until the inspector is supposed to be there.
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    Re: 16 Hours of GMAW Training/Instruction?

    Quote Originally Posted by Roert42 View Post
    Around here you see a lot of this. 1 engineer stamps the plans as a side job, 1 licensed electrician to pull the permits for the jobs, and a few "Helpers" that do all the actual work. Engineer never looks at the plans, the electrician never sets foot on the job until the inspector is supposed to be there.
    A good deal less enforcement than that here. Vermont analyzes national code for years, then drafts their own code far more stringent than NEC. I believe our code is the most demanding in the country. Enforcement is zero in private homes & very spotty in commercial & multi family structures. Codes are only enforced in law suits. If there is a loss, somebody has to pay! Typically, the original "electrician" is obscure. If a licensed electrician files a permit for a minor change, or the resident remembers a name of an electrician who came later, that's who gets sued.
    An optimist is usually wrong, and when the unexpected happens is unprepared. A pessimist is usually right, when wrong, is delighted, and well prepared.

  26. #100
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    Re: 16 Hours of GMAW Training/Instruction?

    Quote Originally Posted by Roert42 View Post
    For a a heat sink I use Brass bar stock, I have an hunk about 1/2" x 1 1/2" x 12". Good for welding thin stuff to prevent blowing a hole in it. Plus you can put it behind something with a big gap and weld right over it, fill in a hole or something.

    You can get sheets of copper kind of like shim stock, called welding spoons, more flexible then the bar. Great for autobody stuff because you can bend it up on the back of a curved panel at a joint or just filling in holes/ spot welds.

    On the Stick vs Mig. I think stick is more obvious when you are making mistakes. It's really easy to make a nice looking Mig weld that has lack of fusion, and just sits on top of the metal.

    For the point of your welds wondering. Sounds like you may be having a hard time seeing the puddle. Are you may try using a lighter shade or a cheater lens if you wear glasses. I also find that having a bright light shinning on the work helps to see where you are going too.
    Oh I may look into the welding spoon thing. I'll have to replace two big rear panels soon.

    I can see the puddle really well, too well I think lol. I may be concentrating on the puddle too much and losing track of the joint/toe of the previous weld. I'll try that bright light on the work piece idea and see if that helps.

    Quote Originally Posted by Willie B View Post
    You are mistaken. Residential garages are under no code requirements to provide more than lighting (dim) & the most anemic of outlets. There is a very good chance the electrician who wired your home would not have been awarded the job if he had included power for a dedicated circuit. Residential wiring is a cutthroat business. Do a good job & price it as such, you don't get the job. Residential work is "code minimum" Vermont doesn't inspect private homes. Workmanship is invariably well below "code minimum". The GC needs his profit.

    Truth is here, it's not common for an electrician to wire a private home. I know one contractor built homes averaging $2,000,000. Only time he used an electrician is when the homeowner insisted. Others were wired by carpenters, or plumbers. They typically scrambled to find skilled people to make things work before the homeowner noticed.
    Yeah just thought it would be logical to put at least a 20 amp breaker for the garage. If, as was mentioned, a little air compressor will need a 20 amp then why wouldn't they install that. How much more would it have cost them I wonder. Anyway, I'll have it fixed as soon as my electrician can schedule me in.

    You guys are making me paranoid about my wiring now lol. Actually, my 6 year old step-son pulled the ceiling fan cord in his room the other night and the whole fan dropped down. I'm talking the whole fan assembly and the plastic electric box lmao. At first I was pissed because I thought he tried to hang on the fan or something. The plastic electric box was just braced by the drywall. Now I'll have to go up in the attic soon and see if I can secure it against something. I should check the other ceiling fans too.

    Quote Originally Posted by Willie B View Post
    A good deal less enforcement than that here. Vermont analyzes national code for years, then drafts their own code far more stringent than NEC. I believe our code is the most demanding in the country. Enforcement is zero in private homes & very spotty in commercial & multi family structures. Codes are only enforced in law suits. If there is a loss, somebody has to pay! Typically, the original "electrician" is obscure. If a licensed electrician files a permit for a minor change, or the resident remembers a name of an electrician who came later, that's who gets sued.
    That sucks! Poor bastards getting blamed for crap that someone else did/failed to do. I may pay my electrician to do a quick electrical home inspection soon.

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