Issue with 6010 arc

[Carbon-Arc]

Welding with 6010+ on either straight or reverse polarity is pretty difficult on my machine. The arc likes to extinguish frequently, and to maintain the arc as best as possible, I'm finding that I have to bury the tip of the rod in the molten flux puddle.
6011 will run completely fine at the same amperage (on AC).
Is this some inherent fault of my machine, or do I need to adjust something?

[Louie1961]

Some machines, especially small inverters, don't run 6010 very well. Just not enough voltage on the output. Stick to 6011 or try a different welder if you really have to use 6010

[Jack Ryan]

If you have VRD can you disable it? It might help.

Try not to electrocute yourself though.

Jack

[albrightree]

What machine are you running it on ? What are your settings ? Are you using Lincoln 6010+ ( the grey stuff) not the Red electrodes. What is your Primary ( input ) voltage 230v,240v, maybe 208v ?

I have a Dayton 250 AC/DC that is probably very similar to you Century, and running 230 vac it runs 6010 but is very sticky/cranky. On 208 vac without changing internal taps its near impossible to run, moving taps helps but its a bit of a job to keep a steady arc.
When running 6010 on my EconoTwinHF or Airco250 both run good on 230v, but I can tell when I'm running on 208v(without changing taps) its a little bit cranky, and I have to turn up the amps just a little bit to compensate. All the other rods run fine 6011, 6013,7014,7018, 308,309,316,NI55, and some maintanence rods.


My point is , input voltage can affect how your machine will run 6010, almost as much as what machine you run it on. Some machines (even transformer) just don't run 6010 as well as others. If you have a job that spec's that rod, you might need to get a machine that works well with 6010. None of my work has 6010 specified , but I do have some of the red, and some of the grey in the shop.



I solved the problem by buying a 50lb box of Lincoln 1/8" 6011, and it works everywhere, with every thing.


Good luck

[mla2ofus]

I have some 6010 that was given to me and I have to turn up the amps a little on my Miller Thunderbolt to run 6010. I think the OCV is a little too low for this.

[smithdoor]

You all welding rod type and has different technic. It will even change with welding machines.

If you can weld with E6011 why not use E6011. They both high pen rod the only difference is E6010 is DC only and E6011 is both AC and DC

Dave

Welding with 6010+ on either straight or reverse polarity is pretty difficult on my machine. The arc likes to extinguish frequently, and to maintain the arc as best as possible, I'm finding that I have to bury the tip of the rod in the molten flux puddle.
6011 will run completely fine at the same amperage (on AC).
Is this some inherent fault of my machine, or do I need to adjust something?

[Carbon-Arc]

To answer all questions:
I'm running the 6010 on the Century 250 amp AC/DC transformer machine.
The 6010 is the Lincoln grey rod.
No VRD on my machine.
I'm not sure about input voltage, my plugin is one of those four prong explodable types.
I had initially dismissed too low OCV, since I can maintain some pretty long arc lengths with other rods, but maybe I'm mistaken.
I'll be back to welding on Friday, I'll play around with the 6010 a little more. I did find that welding with it was much easier of I stick the rod and let it heat up for 10 seconds before striking the arc.

[albrightree]

To answer all questions:
I'm running the 6010 on the Century 250 amp AC/DC transformer machine.
The 6010 is the Lincoln grey rod.
No VRD on my machine.
I'm not sure about input voltage, my plugin is one of those four prong "explodable" types.
I had initially dismissed too low OCV, since I can maintain some pretty long arc lengths with other rods, but maybe I'm mistaken.
I'll be back to welding on Friday, I'll play around with the 6010 a little more. I did find that welding with it was much easier of I stick the rod and let it heat up for 10 seconds before striking the arc.

I hope not !!!
I think you mean "convertible" similar to a clothes dryer, or Oven plug , flat blades having several voltage/amperage configurations. If residential, then most likely 230vac, probably not the input being the problem.
Its a very good chance its the welder itself, it just doesn't have the arc for it. No adjustments beyond Amps.

Regards

[Louie1961]

Probably the OCV is too low. Those welders have a high range and a low range on AC, which actually does affect the OCV (higher OCV in low range). I'd bet a dollar that the DC side of that welder is connected to the high range of the transformer. You could figure it out pretty quick with an AC/DC voltage meter. But honestly for that machine, just get some of the Hobart 6011 at Tractor Supply and go to town. Those Hobart 6011's are really nice:

[Oscar]

I did find that welding with it was much easier of I stick the rod and let it heat up for 10 seconds before striking the arc.

Don't let that fool you though. A machine that is capable of running 6010, sticking the rod is not necessary. Just the fact that you have to bury the rod to keep it lit really tells the whole story. It really does.

[Carbon-Arc]

albrightree- I do mean explodable. It's a specific type of connector at the college, not a regular home plug-in. There is no adjustment besides amperage on my machine.
I'll try the 6011 on DC, if it is also hard to run, I'll chock it up to too low OCV.

[Kelvin]

It's interesting and kinda surprising to me that it's the OCV in inerters that causes trouble with 6010, because on my engine drive welder, when I'm burning 6010 and want a lot of dig / "arc force" I turn the "fine" adjustment way down (this varies the OCV and also lets you use multiple "coarse" ranges for the same given amperage) ... so when I'm putting in a root with 6010, and want lots of dig, I set the range tap at one of the upper ranges, and set the "fine" adjustment way down around 10% ... which gives an OCV of probably less than 65VDC (by using the fine adjustment, I can get OCV from 58VDC at the bottom to 88VDC at the top)... this low OCV makes the 6010 very "sticky" at arc startup, but once the arc is lit, you can gouge holes in your material like an oxylance...

I guess the electronics and everything else are different, giving different behavior on an engine drive versus an inerter...anyway, not to go TOO far OT...

[Carbon-Arc]

It's interesting and kinda surprising to me that it's the OCV in inerters that causes trouble with 6010, because on my engine drive welder, when I'm burning 6010 and want a lot of dig / "arc force" I turn the "fine" adjustment way down (this varies the OCV and also lets you use multiple "coarse" ranges for the same given amperage) ... so when I'm putting in a root with 6010, and want lots of dig, I set the range tap at one of the upper ranges, and set the "fine" adjustment way down around 10% ... which gives an OCV of probably less than 65VDC (by using the fine adjustment, I can get OCV from 58VDC at the bottom to 88VDC at the top)... this low OCV makes the 6010 very "sticky" at arc startup, but once the arc is lit, you can gouge holes in your material like an oxylance...

I guess the electronics and everything else are different, giving different behavior on an engine drive versus an inerter...anyway, not to go TOO far OT...

Well, my machine is a transformer machine, so I'm not sure what parts of it differ from your engine drive machine (besides the obvious).

[Carbon-Arc]

It's not OCV, I just measured this morning. OCV on AC is 66 volts, OCV on DC is 69 volts.

[MISSING LINK]

Try for kicks and giggles, find some red 6010. I had a AC only stick machine that would not run 7018 or gray 5p+ 6010. But give it some red 6010 and it welded fine. Can't explain it, it just worked. Other wise, as others have said, 6011 is very nice!

[Kelvin]

Well, my machine is a transformer machine, so I'm not sure what parts of it differ from your engine drive machine (besides the obvious).

Well, the different "taps" (coarse adjustment positions) on mine change the characteristics of the arc pretty dramatically...

I assume you've tried turning up the amperage to try to get it to run 6010 better...?

I don't think I've ever used a DC transformer machine that couldn't run 6010 nicely, allowing you to long-arc for "whip and pause" technique...

[Roert42]

To answer all questions:
I did find that welding with it was much easier of I stick the rod and let it heat up for 10 seconds before striking the arc.

I've seen this issue before with trying to run 6010 on under powered machines. I would have to drag the rod across the steel to get the tip of the rod hot enough to hold an arch. Not enough amps to start up and run.

It honestly just sounds like it needs more amps. What happens when you start to crank the amps up?

[Carbon-Arc]

When I turn the amps up, not much happens. With 1/8in rod, 6010 will have an equally hard time at 100 amps, or at 160 amps.
Meanwhile the 6011 will run fine on DC as well.

[Welder Dave]

It's just the machine. If it was an Idealarc 250 or Dialarc 250 it would run 6010 pretty good but these machines are quite an upgrade from the Century. If it runs 6011, use that.

[smithdoor]

I agree 👍
I said same thing in one first posts.

Dave

It's just the machine. If it was an Idealarc 250 or Dialarc 250 it would run 6010 pretty good but these machines are quite an upgrade from the Century. If it runs 6011, use that.

[Jack Ryan]

I've never tried 6010 but as it features so much I thought I'd give it a go. Turns out that's easier said than done. Not a common rod in Australia and there are very few stockists so I can only order in bulk.

I ordered a 10lb packet of Forney 1/8" E6010 from the US. I don't know if that is any good but I'll find out in a few months. Unfortunately the USPS has suspended shipments to Australia because two of the 10 international airports are disrupted due to COVID-19. Lack of international flights is an ongoing problem as most of the packages come on passenger flights.

Hopefully the flux is still attached to the rods when it gets here.

Jack

[12V71]

When I turn the amps up, not much happens. With 1/8in rod, 6010 will have an equally hard time at 100 amps, or at 160 amps.
Meanwhile the 6011 will run fine on DC as well.

You may have the OCV, but its not holding up arc volts. Most of those cheaper machines wont. 6011 has added arc stabilizers to maintain the arc on A/C and that helps with low volt D/C welding. Stick with some good 6011, 6010 is no better if your machine wont run it.

[Carbon-Arc]

I'll measure closed circuit volts on Monday, and we have a Lincoln idealarc 250 DC/ 300AC I can compare with.

[albrightree]

From the ESAB website :

The Right Welder

E6010 electrodes require more voltage than other electrodes. Further, as operators whip the electrode, the arc length changes, and the welding power source needs to keep the arc established.

Because of these two issues, power sources good for running E6010 electrodes share two characteristics. First, they have a high open circuit voltage (OCV), which is voltage at the electrode before the arc is struck (e.g., no current being drawn). A frequent analogy is that OCV — and remember that voltage provides electrical pressure — is like a garden hose with the water turned on and before the nozzle is opened. A power source that provides good electrical pressure provides better arc starts.

Secondly, good E6010 welders have a large inductor. An inductor resists change in electric current passing through it. They are said to “hold power” or act as a “power reserve” to keep the arc established as the operator manipulates the electrode. Conventional power sources and welding generators use large magnetics, such as copper wire wrapped around a ferrite core. Inverter-based power sources use electronics and much smaller magnetics to minimize overall weight.

Note that inverters need to be specifically designed for welding with an E6010 electrode. Adding the required electronic components and writing the algorithms that provide good arc characteristics increases the cost of the unit. Most small multiprocess inverters designed to appeal more to the home-hobby welder simply don’t have these components (and the target audience doesn’t have the skill to run E6010 electrodes even if they did).


This is the link to the whole article : https://www.esabna.com/us/en/news/ne...electrodes.cfm

The choices are :
1) Run the 6010 and put up with the sticking arc.
If you think its hard to run on the bench, imagine how fun it will be to use it in a less convenient spot. Imagine how it would work out underneath a trailer, or dump body, where you find your self wedged between a frame, and a leaf spring. Then trying to reach out with the stinger to strike an arc, and every time it sticks you have wiggle, and pull the electrode back without striking a fuel line, brake line, or wiring harness.

Cost $3.00 (for bottle of aspirin)


2) Buy some 6011 and get better welds, less head ache. Use the 6010 to make hooks to hang stuff up when spray painting or spray cleaning with solvent. Break the flux off the 6010 and use as filler rod to help in filling hole with the 6011

Cost - $25.00 (for a box of 1/8" 6011)


3) Buy a new welder like the ESAB rebel, and weld like a PRO

Cost - $800 ( Everlast sells a cheaper version, your decision )





I have a remote silo location where I have either 208v, or 480v available to me. I keep a welder there permanently so I don't have to drag one out to make a small repair. At one point there were two machines out there. One was a IdealArc 250 AC/DC, and the other is the Dayton 250 AC/DC. Both were run off the 208v line with the internal taps set for 240V, both ran lousy, with the Dayton barely usable. After I changed the taps on both machines the welding was greatly improved with both machines, with the exception of 6010 on the Dayton. The IdealArc didn't have any trouble with the 6010. The only thing that helped improve the usability of the 6010 on the Dayton welder was to make sure it had a good ground (usually by grinding) .

Hope This Helps

[Jack Ryan]

From the ESAB website :

Note that inverters need to be specifically designed for welding with an E6010 electrode. Adding the required electronic components and writing the algorithms that provide good arc characteristics increases the cost of the unit. Most small multiprocess inverters designed to appeal more to the home-hobby welder simply don’t have these components (and the target audience doesn’t have the skill to run E6010 electrodes even if they did).

Assuming that the inverter is well designed, I think that both the higher OCV and the inductance can be provided by software. In fact, I think an inductor in software is better than one in hardware. A real inductor will impede increasing current as well as decreasing current, a software inductor can be made only to impede reducing current.

This is the link to the whole article : https://www.esabna.com/us/en/news/ne...electrodes.cfm

Just letting you know, the link doesn't work.

Jack