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Thread: I Might of Really Stepped In It.

  1. #1
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    I Might of Really Stepped In It.

    I got to thinking about that damn pipe I got, and why it would be threaded, and have couplings on one end.

    I'm thinkin' this crap might be casing.

    Got so upset about it, I went out and looked at it on the trailer.

    Plain as day........................it's labeled J55

    Based on what I've been able to come up with...........................................it' s not suitable for welding because of the high carbon content.

    https://www.worldironsteel.com/news/...-25170138.html

    .34-.39 carbon content. I'm pretty sure this is a disaster waiting to happen.

    Luckily, it's still on the trailer.
    Last edited by farmersammm; 10-13-2021 at 05:04 AM. Reason: bad link

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  3. #2
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    Re: I Might of Really Stepped In It.

    Damn, that sucks!

    I bet you had a nagging feeling of something isn't going to work - your fabricator sixth sense.

    I've had projects like that, where I knew SOMETHING wasn't right, but couldn't find it until it was a huge pain in the rear to correct.

    Have you considered moving your shipping containers and rigging up an I beam between them? Make a quick, dirty, and safe "drive thru" or "pull thru" gantry.

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  5. #3
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    Re: I Might of Really Stepped In It.

    welding wire ER55-G with similar strength should be selected, which has excellent welding process performance, more Ni, strong cold cracking resistance, and its deposited metal has excellent comprehensive mechanical properties.

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    Re: I Might of Really Stepped In It.

    Quote Originally Posted by _Weldman_ View Post
    welding wire ER55-G with similar strength should be selected, which has excellent welding process performance, more Ni, strong cold cracking resistance, and its deposited metal has excellent comprehensive mechanical properties.

    It's the preheating and post weld cooling that really puts a damper on the whole party.

    Post-welding treatment: tempering treatment: 600±20℃, insulation time: 4h; Heating rate 50℃/h, cooling rate 50℃/h.
    Airco Auto-Pak 130

    Forney 235AC/DC

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  8. #5
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    Re: I Might of Really Stepped In It.

    So, is the guy who gave you a real price for the actual stuff you needed still beneath contempt? Seems like "gets people like you" might mean "people like you get got."

    I talked to another ckskr, told him what I need it for.........like I tell all the people. Azzhole says he ain't gonna design it for me. I didn't ask him to design it, I just want the dimensions and the f'n price. "Depends on how many feet you want".....................120-160ft 4 1/2..................$6/foot says this f'n hero. For used crap.

    Splained to the dood in Tulsa that I wasn't an oilfield guy, or a pipe guy. I think in NOMINAL terms. So................is 4 1/2 pipe same as a sch pipe in my terms.........inside diameter + wall. Dood laughed, told me he gets guys like me, and gave me the damn dimensions without lookin' down his nose. You gotta sale Brother

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    Re: I Might of Really Stepped In It.

    K'kins talked to the guys at where she works. They deal with this kind of pipe on a regular basis.

    Billy, who I trust..........................................."W e've had it crack when welding it in long sections/welds". The only way he's had success with it is to skip around, and let short welds cool. Both of their gin pole trucks were made with 5" casing, and work well. These are used for everything, including moving pumps, etc. They exclusively use an E70 Outershield wire in the shop. I have to get over there, and talk face to face to see what his weld procedures were.....preheat, no preheat, etc. Just the work "crack" leads me to believe I'm correct in not using the J55.

    I've also discovered that all used oilfield pipe (at least around here) is sold as "structural" when it's no longer suitable for intended purpose, or is simply surplus stock. "Structural", when talking to a pipe guy is simply not "structural". It's pipe they want to move.

    True structural pipe is stuff they use for HSS..................A500, A252, A53, A139 among others. All have chemistry which makes them readily weldable. This stuff is available around here, but a bit more expensive (the stuff I checked out 6" (6 9/16) 1/4 wall $8.75/ft) this is for new pipe with mill certs. (Considering what I've gone through......I'll believe that when I see the paperwork)

    The origins of the used pipe is not really certain. Unless it's stenciled at the mill, and you can see it, it's a crap shoot as to what it actually is. I guess you could take a metal analysis gun, but I dinna gots one

    I'm not terribly concerned with the additional cost. It's an expensive lesson, but worth it. I really can't afford any failures.

    At least, that's my thinking at this point.

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  11. #7
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    Re: I Might of Really Stepped In It.

    You can weld J-55 with low hydrogen without problems when you get into higher grades with white collars then it gets a little different again joint design is important and gussets design lots of stuff built with casing is welded j-55 and L-80 are common structural steel getting good fit up and good joint design and you will have no problems

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    Re: I Might of Really Stepped In It.

    Good luck
    Check with welding suppliers most will have a chart.

    Dave

    Quote Originally Posted by farmersammm View Post
    I got to thinking about that damn pipe I got, and why it would be threaded, and have couplings on one end.

    I'm thinkin' this crap might be casing.

    Got so upset about it, I went out and looked at it on the trailer.

    Plain as day........................it's labeled J55

    Based on what I've been able to come up with...........................................it' s not suitable for welding because of the high carbon content.

    https://www.worldironsteel.com/news/...-25170138.html

    .34-.39 carbon content. I'm pretty sure this is a disaster waiting to happen.

    Luckily, it's still on the trailer.
    Last edited by smithdoor; 10-14-2021 at 12:41 AM.

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    Re: I Might of Really Stepped In It.

    The final decision is to go examine the purported structural pipe I've located.............to see if it's actually structural, then the casing goes back to the supplier. Actually, it would have gone back to the supplier today, had I not been sidelined with a heart stress test..........treadmills suck!! (And truck, and trailer, are sitting in a pool of water and mud)

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    J55 is a medium carbon steel, the video gets into this type of steel at about 10:25


    The necessity of stress relieving puts me off. Stress relieving involves more than the widely touted banging away on the weld with a needle scaler. It involves a considerable heat soak, at elevated temperatures.

    I'm not saying that the J55 can't be welded............I'm just saying that I don't want to weld it, given the choice.

    The poles on this truck, and its companion, were reportedly made from casing...........which I don't doubt. Although I wonder about the bow at the top.

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    The mild steels are designed to be welded. I don't want to get lucky, I want to get it right.

    If it were corrals, fence corners, or gates, I'd have no issues.

    I don't anticipate any problems returning the pipe........................and if I do have problems, the invoice is plainly printed "structural pipe". Legally, this is not structural pipe.

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  16. #10
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    Re: I Might of Really Stepped In It.

    Just borrow that rig-up truck and fix the tractor.

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    Re: I Might of Really Stepped In It.

    Quote Originally Posted by 12V71 View Post
    Just borrow that rig-up truck and fix the tractor.
    We borrowed one of the tank trucks when we had the wildfires back in 2012, and it caught on fire in the middle of the road at about 2 in the morning Wiring issue. Put it out quick, but it was embarrassing. You hate to use something, and have problems with it while it's in your hands. I'd probably knock the house down with that gin pole truck

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  20. #12
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    Re: I Might of Really Stepped In It.

    My experience is gin poles are made of drill pipe NOT casing not saying always but not very often . People get nervous because they hear the horror stories of welding tubing and sucker rods and weld breaking again good fit up and good welding practices grind all rust and bevel joints etc and you won’t have problems this includes new box of rod not something that has been in shop for a year. And if your buying used pipe nowadays you don’t know what your getting are you buying grade B or ! Are you buying x42 , x52 , or maybe even some exotic stuff you don’t know ! So your choice but buying salvage or used you will never know for sure

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    Re: I Might of Really Stepped In It.

    Also the other thread that is going is operation pole barn is a whole building made of used tubing and casing
    I can tell you that is why most companies or individuals that build important structures that involve lifting etc use new material for liability reasons. I supervise a large pipeyard in the Bakken and have welded for many years I own my own business if your not comfortable welding it DONT but remember the next stuff you go get might not be any better.

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    Re: I Might of Really Stepped In It.

    Well, this stuff is supposed to be new pipe. I'm gonna give it a look tomorrow.

    So...............I think I'm finally getting some idea of the type of pipe I'm needing. This is a whole new education

    I've narrowed it down to: A500, A53 TYPE A or B, A106 TYPE A or B

    A53: https://www.amerpipe.com/steel-pipe-...more%20rows%20

    A106: https://www.amerpipe.com/steel-pipe-...pecifications/

    The A500 is the simplest...................same same as the square tubing I've worked with for over 2 decades.

    The WP for A53, AND A106 seems to be straightforward https://www.kub.org/uploads/15230_Ga...Procedures.PDF

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    Re: I Might of Really Stepped In It.

    The yield strength on TYPE B in both grades seems to be closest to typical A36. All things being equal, I'm thinking I'll be looking for the TYPE B

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    Re: I Might of Really Stepped In It.

    K'kins is the brains in the outfit "How about just pouring a nice level slab out there, and making a small regular gantry crane, or buying one?"

    Well............................................

    It's been a while since I was a contractor (Class C residential back out in Colorado). IIRC..........a yard covers around 90SF, 4" deep. Dunno what the price of mud is these days (minimum delivery, price per yard, and waiting time). I always used to specify IIRC something on the order of a minimum 8 sack mix so's it would be waterproof, and tough. Then ya gotta figure on the lumber for forms, and 6.6.10.10 wire. I remember it was grey when it set up, most of the other guys used less cement per yard, and got those bright white slabs (which didn't seem to hold up well to freeze/thaw cycles). But I was just as weird back then, as now

    She's so damn practical, it makes ya wanna throw up

    I still have all the tools, including my prized David White transit.

    So, figure maybe about $200 a yard???????????? Hell I dunno, I don't do this stuff anymore. It looks like maybe a 12x20 slab isn't out of the realm of affordable. And I'm getting kind of old to be scoochin' around in the dirt to fix stuff.............and getting covered in ticks. Hell.............I dunno. I sorta got the bit in my teeth for a damn bridge crane

    Now, we're talkin' full slabs I'd only figured on 4 concrete pads for the crane (just enough to support the columns, and allow me to move the entire crane out of the "shop" when I have to bring the swather, or other wide stuff in)

    She's asleep now. I might just go in there, and thump her on the top of her noggin DAMN THAT WOMAN

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  30. #17
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    Re: I Might of Really Stepped In It.

    81 sq ft at 4"

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    Re: I Might of Really Stepped In It.

    The idea of pouring a proper slab is one of the best ideas you've had recently... oh wait, it was the wife's idea

    Anything that means less faffing around and more actual useful output!
    Murphy's Golden Rule: Whoever has the gold, makes the rules.

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  34. #19
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    Re: I Might of Really Stepped In It.

    Go big.... then you can drop that heated shop you need on top of it and the gantry crane... concrete is currently stupid expensive (like most building materials) but I don't think I've ever seen it get cheaper...
    The harder you fall, the higher you bounce...

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  36. #20
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    Re: I Might of Really Stepped In It.

    I didn't get a really clear quote on the concrete. It's 127/yard, with a $40 charge for 3 yards...........more for less yards. I didn't remember to ask whether that was a per yard surcharge. Either way, it's relatively cheap compared to the steel prices.

    No way to get a concrete truck in here until it dries out, and I trim back the driveway. Lot of low hanging limbs. Another reason I built the man lift for the broken tractor We're into a nightly rain pattern right now, and now that temps are dropping, I have no real idea when a heavy truck could actually operate in the yard. Plus, the yard is completely jammed up with equipment right now...........no way a truck could get to where it has to be.

    BACK TO STEEL

    I nailed the guy down on the new pipe he has..............the stuff I might take a look at today. It's new mill reject. He says it's because they're random drops from sizing the pipe at the mill probably This is the 6" stuff at $8.75/foot.

    Go Bob has some mill reject in the size I want, but it's on the Kansas border, up around Bartlesville. 5 1/2 .380 wall at $5.95/foot.

    Neither of these guys would commit as to the grade of pipe..........just calling it weldable mild steel.

    So.................I got fed up with this stuff, and called a new prime pipe supplier over at Port of Catoosa.

    New 6 1/2 .280 wall A53-B, with a MTR..........26.49/foot....... 5 1/2 for 20.34/foot. This is UnGodly high, but it's certified material...........and is cheaper than square tubing.

    Just got off the phone with the LWS, and he's trying to get a better price.

    We also discussed using channel for a built up column...................cheaper, but still high. 6" channel, 40', $238. I'm not totally opposed to a built up column. I've used channel in the past for fabricating a hoe drill caddy, using this process to make the tubing for the load carrying beam.............it worked well.
    Last edited by farmersammm; 10-15-2021 at 02:50 PM.

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    Re: I Might of Really Stepped In It.

    BTW..........everything comin' out of the LWS carries an MTR, completely traceable.

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    Re: I Might of Really Stepped In It.

    For anyone unfamiliar with Go Bob Steel

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    Re: I Might of Really Stepped In It.

    Quote Originally Posted by farmersammm View Post
    The final decision is to go examine the purported structural pipe I've located.............to see if it's actually structural, then the casing goes back to the supplier. Actually, it would have gone back to the supplier today, had I not been sidelined with a heart stress test..........treadmills suck!! .
    Wait til you have to do an echo stress test (echocardiogram). You’re pedalling away on a stationary incline bike then they flip the whole contraption ON ITS SIDE while you’re pedalling so they can use the ultrasound dealie on you (same as used in pregnancies


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
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  40. #24
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    Re: I Might of Really Stepped In It.

    If you decide to go with concrete (which I think is a good idea) I'll suggest you spend a little more money. (I like to do that too, especially someone else's) Around here 4" is a patio to drink beer on. I'd like to see it closer to 6" and for an extra expense excavate about 16" wide around the entire perimeter another 4" for 10" thick just in case you want to one day bolt columns to it or a wall. And maybe sell an extra couple of cows and make it 16' wide.
    ---Meltedmetal

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  42. #25
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    Re: I Might of Really Stepped In It.

    Well since we are back to design if I was trying to get by I would auger holes cement in columns for my crane let them extend past the crane build the crane in place pour concrete or get some material that packs well { you can always pour concrete later } and you can always put rafter up later and put a roof over it

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