Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 26 to 33 of 33

Thread: Suitcase vs Small Mig Machine

  1. #26
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    1,282
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Suitcase vs Small Mig Machine

    Quote Originally Posted by Munkul View Post
    What "internal" fuse? They don't have one!

    It says that's the fuse you WOULD use. It also says on the specs, that Imax is 26a for the 200. This is peak current at max settings... not effective current, but it will trip the wrong size of breaker.
    A short peak of 26 amps will not blow a 16 amp fuse. It also won't blow a type C breaker... but the instantaneous current (even higher than 26 amps) probably would blow a 16 amp type B.

    The Ieff (effective current) at 100%DC (which is where the welding current doesn't exceed 120 amps) is 13.2 amps, which makes sense to me. We would get away with using MIG sets on 13 amp fuses for sheet metal, but crank it up and they'll blow.

    In real life these figures are usually overblown slightly, after all no-one wants a machine that doesn't do at least what it says it does on the tin. And after all, it does say it will be happy on a 16a type C, presumably at max power, and this is the important number.
    You know I thought that but dang it was so small.

    So again same thing use a 16 amp fuse to feed the Tig 180 or the Mig 200. Same input suggested.

    They surely are trying to get you to give the machine some protection by not having more feed than it needs I recon.

    Some of these small machines do run protection in the machine or the cord itself because they usually have a 50 amp plug they don't really want 50 available to the machine when it is over 3 times what it requires. Makes the majic smoke too thick when it comes out. Lol
    Last edited by danielplace; 10-26-2021 at 11:11 AM.

  2. #27
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Location
    Cumbria, UK
    Posts
    1,607
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Suitcase vs Small Mig Machine

    Quote Originally Posted by danielplace View Post
    You know I thought that but dang it was so small.

    So again same thing use a 16 amp fuse to feed the Tig 180 or the Mig 200. Same input suggested.

    They surely are trying to get you to give the machine some protection by not having more feed than it needs I recon.

    Some of these small machines do run protection in the machine or the cord itself because they usually have a 50 amp plug they don't really want 50 available to the machine when it is over 3 times what it requires. Makes the majic smoke too thick when it comes out. Lol
    You may be right... in UK they don't have any built in protection other than it's own circuitry overheating/overvoltage protection. The input cable is protected upstream by the breaker, or the 13 amp fuse (if you're using it on a fused plug like many domestic users do)

    Although I'd have thought they designed the machine to run on a specific size of circuit. It states 16 amps for a reason. It's not their fault or their problem if you feed it with a 50a breaker and something goes wrong. The 16a breaker is to blow before the cable melts from overcurrent.
    Murphy's Golden Rule: Whoever has the gold, makes the rules.

  3. #28
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Location
    Clovis California
    Posts
    3,546
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Suitcase vs Small Mig Machine

    The advantage to MIG over stick/tig is takes a smaller breaker to do same work.

    My MIG welder runs 20 amp breaker.
    When had a stick welder it took a 50 breaker.

    Dave

    Quote Originally Posted by danielplace View Post
    You know I thought that but dang it was so small.

    So again same thing use a 16 amp fuse to feed the Tig 180 or the Mig 200 same input suggested.

    They surely are trying to get you to give the machine some protection by not having more feed than it needs I recon.

    Some of these small machines do run protection in the machine or the cord itself because they usually have a 50 amp plug they don't really want 50 available to the machine when it is over 3 times what it requires.

  4. #29
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Location
    Cumbria, UK
    Posts
    1,607
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Suitcase vs Small Mig Machine

    Quote Originally Posted by smithdoor View Post
    The advantage to MIG over stick/tig is takes a smaller breaker to do same work.

    My MIG welder runs 20 amp breaker.
    When had a stick welder it took a 50 breaker.

    Dave
    Generally it's the other way around, as you use more arc voltage in MIG than MMA, so more power is consumed.

    Older stick units were very power hungry and inefficient, so maybe this was a large part of the reason why you could downsize when you went to MIG.
    Murphy's Golden Rule: Whoever has the gold, makes the rules.

  5. #30
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    1,282
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Suitcase vs Small Mig Machine

    Quote Originally Posted by Munkul View Post
    You may be right... in UK they don't have any built in protection other than it's own circuitry overheating/overvoltage protection. The input cable is protected upstream by the breaker, or the 13 amp fuse (if you're using it on a fused plug like many domestic users do)

    Although I'd have thought they designed the machine to run on a specific size of circuit. It states 16 amps for a reason. It's not their fault or their problem if you feed it with a 50a breaker and something goes wrong. The 16a breaker is to blow before the cable melts from overcurrent.
    Found this. It is suggesting a 16 amp supply alright.

    MinarcMig Evo machines pack huge MIG/MAG welding capacity and quality into their portable, compact size.
    Choose from either 200 A or 170 A models, delivering their welding power at 35 % duty cycle from a 16 A,
    1-phase mains supply.
    Designed for use with long supply cables of 100m+

    MinarcMig Evo delivers premium results wherever your work takes you.
    MinarcMig Evo 200 offers Automatic and Manual mode set-up for precise welding quality and arc ignition,
    monitored and controlled by Kemppi’s adaptive arc regulation system. MinarcMig Evo 170 offers manual
    setting only, with separate controls for voltage and wire feed speed.
    Last edited by danielplace; 10-26-2021 at 12:18 PM.

  6. #31
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Location
    Clovis California
    Posts
    3,546
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Suitcase vs Small Mig Machine

    I have own Miller MIG welders up to 750 Amp and stick/tig welders to 350 amps.
    At point any welder is down sizing.

    The starting amps of the stick welder is very high current do to CC.
    The MIG welder use CV and the starting current is far less

    Dave

    Quote Originally Posted by Munkul View Post
    Generally it's the other way around, as you use more arc voltage in MIG than MMA, so more power is consumed.

    Older stick units were very power hungry and inefficient, so maybe this was a large part of the reason why you could downsize when you went to MIG.

  7. #32
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    810
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Suitcase vs Small Mig Machine

    Quote Originally Posted by danielplace View Post
    Found this. It is suggesting a 16 amp supply alright.

    MinarcMig Evo machines pack huge MIG/MAG welding capacity and quality into their portable, compact size.
    Choose from either 200 A or 170 A models, delivering their welding power at 35 % duty cycle from a 16 A,
    1-phase mains supply.
    Designed for use with long supply cables of 100m+

    MinarcMig Evo delivers premium results wherever your work takes you.
    MinarcMig Evo 200 offers Automatic and Manual mode set-up for precise welding quality and arc ignition,
    monitored and controlled by Kemppi’s adaptive arc regulation system. MinarcMig Evo 170 offers manual
    setting only, with separate controls for voltage and wire feed speed.
    A Minarcmig 200 (or pretty much any 200amp class single phase 240 volt MIG) will trip a 16 amp circuit (which is a standard household circuit here in aus) at about 22 volts and 140 amps, the lead that comes with a Minarc MIG evo 200 is a 6mm square cable rated to carry 32 amps of 240 volt power, and if you put a 32 amp 240 volt plug on it and plug it into a 32 amp 240 volts single phase outlet you can run it at 26 volts and 200 amps until the machine hits it's duty cycle.

    you dont get 35% duty cycle at 200 amps from a 16 amp mains supply, you get about 10 seconds before the breaker trips, which makes sense.

    200 amps at 26 volts is 5200 watt's, the minarc mig 200 is rated at 82% efficiency, so at 5200 watts of output at the handpiece the welder will be drawing 6340 watts from the plug, or in other word 26.4 amps at 240 volts, exactly what Munkel has been saying, which is exactly what the manual for the Kemppi states, far more than the 3840 watt's a 16 amp circuit outputs.

    So why do they state 16 amp, and put a 16 amp plug on the machine? to stop idiots from seeing a 32 amp plug, wiring up a 32 amp plus to they're home circuit and burning they're house down trying to weld at max output, you need a 32 amp circuit to run a 200 amp MIG properly and that gives you some leeway, it's not to protect the machine, it's to protect idiots from themselves.
    Last edited by ttoks; 10-26-2021 at 02:01 PM.

  8. #33
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    1,282
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: Suitcase vs Small Mig Machine

    Quote Originally Posted by ttoks View Post
    A Minarcmig 200 (or pretty much any 200amp class single phase 240 volt MIG) will trip a 16 amp circuit (which is a standard household circuit here in aus) at about 22 volts and 140 amps, the lead that comes with a Minarc MIG evo 200 is a 6mm square cable rated to carry 32 amps of 240 volt power, and if you put a 32 amp 240 volt plug on it and plug it into a 32 amp 240 volts single phase outlet you can run it at 26 volts and 200 amps until the machine hits it's duty cycle.

    you dont get 35% duty cycle at 200 amps from a 16 amp mains supply, you get about 10 seconds before the breaker trips, which makes sense.

    200 amps at 26 volts is 5200 watt's, the minarc mig 200 is rated at 82% efficiency, so at 5200 watts of output at the handpiece the welder will be drawing 6340 watts from the plug, or in other word 26.4 amps at 240 volts, exactly what Munkel has been saying, which is exactly what the manual for the Kemppi states, far more than the 3840 watt's a 16 amp circuit outputs.

    So why do they state 16 amp, and put a 16 amp plug on the machine? to stop idiots from seeing a 32 amp plug, wiring up a 32 amp plus to they're home circuit and burning they're house down trying to weld at max output, you need a 32 amp circuit to run a 200 amp MIG properly and that gives you some leeway, it's not to protect the machine, it's to protect idiots from themselves.
    Cool. A welder if wire to what is recommended won't touch the high end.

    Then with 300 feet of cord how much would you have for top end if starting out at 16 up close. Someone posted recently where a company stuck a note in there manual saying similar to what we are discussing. Maybe even was Kemmpi. The were saying something like maybe a 25 amp 240 volt may be needed I think it was.

    I guess 300 feet of cord means nothing when they don't state the AWG is it 16 gauge or 4/0. Lol.

    Yea I believe you are mostly correct as it sounds like you have personal experience with the machine and the numbers are saying 16 amp can't do that.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Page generated in 1,638,548,926.12352 seconds with 13 queries