Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 28

Thread: SA200 New to me.....Questions

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    17
    Post Thanks / Like

    SA200 New to me.....Questions

    I just bought a SA200 F163 and I have a few questions. The code on the faceplate and generator is 6792. I looked it up and it's a 1970 model. The linkage between the vacuum idler and the carb is missing.
    1) Are the windings copper?
    2) Can someone with an identical welder post some pics of the vacuum idler linkage?
    3) The carb looks like cast iron, is it a Marvel Shoebler?
    4) The faceplate model says SA200 f 163 and the stamp on the block, barely readable looks like F 400 612. Is this an F163 engine?
    Attached Images Attached Images    

  2. #2
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Central Wa. state
    Posts
    5,301
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: SA200 New to me.....Questions

    Yes, copper coils. Yes, Marvel-Shebler carb. And yes that is a 163 engine. Cant help with a pic of the linkage.

  3. Likes Pilgrim liked this post
  4. #3
    Join Date
    May 2021
    Location
    NW Georgia
    Posts
    15
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: SA200 New to me.....Questions

    Name:  R57 spring.jpg
Views: 336
Size:  58.6 KB

  5. Likes Pilgrim, 12V71 liked this post
  6. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    17
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: SA200 New to me.....Questions

    Thanks for the quick replies! I could fabricate that long piece of linkage, but I would need to find the arm with the extra hole that clamps to the throttle shaft on my Marvel Shoebler. I wonder why mine doesn't have that extra hole.
    Last edited by Pilgrim; 10-27-2021 at 10:51 PM.

  7. #5
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Central Wa. state
    Posts
    5,301
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: SA200 New to me.....Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Pilgrim View Post
    Thanks for the quick replies! I could fabricate that long piece of linkage, but I would need to find the arm with the extra hole that clamps to the throttle shaft on my Marvel Shoebler. I wonder why mine doesn't have that extra hole.
    That arm for the idler linkage is not solidly attached, it has a "float" feature to keep the idler from interfering with the governor until the idler pulls it back.

  8. Likes Pilgrim liked this post
  9. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    17
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: SA200 New to me.....Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by 12V71 View Post
    That arm for the idler linkage is not solidly attached, it has a "float" feature to keep the idler from interfering with the governor until the idler pulls it back.
    Thanks, that makes sense. Those parts may be hard to find.

  10. #7
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    17
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: SA200 New to me.....Questions

    I found this in ebay, but it doesn't look like it would work unless I had a longer throttle shaft. See carb in OP pics.

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/22455708517...evt=1&mkcid=28

  11. #8
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Central Wa. state
    Posts
    5,301
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: SA200 New to me.....Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Pilgrim View Post
    I found this in ebay, but it doesn't look like it would work unless I had a longer throttle shaft. See carb in OP pics.

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/22455708517...evt=1&mkcid=28
    I would snatch the arm kit. A longer throttle shaft could easily be made by a good machinist. A piece of brass rod and a small amount of mill and drill is all it would take.

  12. Likes Pilgrim liked this post
  13. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    17
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: SA200 New to me.....Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by 12V71 View Post
    I would snatch the arm kit. A longer throttle shaft could easily be made by a good machinist. A piece of brass rod and a small amount of mill and drill is all it would take.
    Good point. It's a bit difficult to get machine shops around here to do any custom work, but it might be worth a try.
    If SA 200's came from the factory with vacuum idlers and Marvel Shoebler carbs, it would seem that applicable factory parts were made at some point. Maybe the carb on mine was a misfit replacement and a previous owner did away with the idler linkage to get it running again, then discarded the old carb.

  14. #10
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Central Wa. state
    Posts
    5,301
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: SA200 New to me.....Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Pilgrim View Post
    Good point. It's a bit difficult to get machine shops around here to do any custom work, but it might be worth a try.
    If SA 200's came from the factory with vacuum idlers and Marvel Shoebler carbs, it would seem that applicable factory parts were made at some point. Maybe the carb on mine was a misfit replacement and a previous owner did away with the idler linkage to get it running again, then discarded the old carb.
    Yeah, that carb is probably from a later electric idler machine... or a piece of farm equipment.

  15. Likes Pilgrim liked this post
  16. #11
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    17
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: SA200 New to me.....Questions

    Thanks for the replies!
    I have a few more questions... I found a rats nest under the commutator. Is there a way to keep the little bastids out without overheating the generator?
    This unit came with a Basch magneto, which is out of service. Previous owner installed this distributor. Is it made by Prestolite? Anyone installed the electronic ignition upgrade? https://bwparts.com/electronic-ignit...50-w-f163.html

    What spark plugs should I use? It has Autolite 386 in it.
    Attached Images Attached Images   

  17. #12
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    3,554
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: SA200 New to me.....Questions

    Why the heck is the R57 on upside down??
    "You can't out puke a buzzard"

  18. Likes 12V71 liked this post
  19. #13
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Location
    NE
    Posts
    40
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: SA200 New to me.....Questions

    Were you able to find the linkage from the carb to idler?

  20. #14
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Location
    Clovis California
    Posts
    3,576
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: SA200 New to me.....Questions

    magnetics die from the magnetic loss power and needs to re-magnetic.
    There are companies that does work.
    I just goto the tractor junk yard and find one that works. Then repair the only for a backup.

    Dave

    Quote Originally Posted by Pilgrim View Post
    Thanks for the replies!
    I have a few more questions... I found a rats nest under the commutator. Is there a way to keep the little bastids out without overheating the generator?
    This unit came with a Basch magneto, which is out of service. Previous owner installed this distributor. Is it made by Prestolite? Anyone installed the electronic ignition upgrade? https://bwparts.com/electronic-ignit...50-w-f163.html

    What spark plugs should I use? It has Autolite 386 in it.

  21. #15
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    17
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: SA200 New to me.....Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by 12V71 View Post
    That arm for the idler linkage is not solidly attached, it has a "float" feature to keep the idler from interfering with the governor until the idler pulls it back.
    I finally found the right used carb with the float feature. Tuned the engine and burned a few 7018 3/16 rods......what a sweeeet weldor! I love this thing.
    I don't have the linkage rod from the vacuum idler nor the 3/16" pins for it. I looked at the vacuum idler. It has around 70 VDC at both terminals and they both drop to around 28 VDC while welding. The rod coming out of the diaphram moves forward 1/8" when I strike an arc. Does that sound like it's working right? Where can I get the rod and pins?
    Attached Images Attached Images  
    Last edited by Pilgrim; 2 Weeks Ago at 07:31 PM.

  22. #16
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Central Wa. state
    Posts
    5,301
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: SA200 New to me.....Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Pilgrim View Post
    I finally found the right used carb with the float feature. Tuned the engine and burned a few 7018 3/16 rods......what a sweeeet weldor! I love this thing.
    I don't have the linkage rod from the vacuum idler nor the 3/16" pins for it. I looked at the vacuum idler. It has around 70 VDC at both terminals and they both drop to around 28 VDC while welding. The rod coming out of the diaphram moves forward 1/8" when I strike an arc. Does that sound like it's working right? Where can I get the rod and pins?
    Yep, that means the idler is working. The pins should be easy to find, the rod and spring... maybe check with the SA200 parts folks that do used parts?
    Also, I think Pipeliner Is right, the idler unit is upside down for whatever reason a previous owner had. The moving end of the arm with the cotter pin is usually "up". It has been 20 years since I had one but it does ring a bell. The cotter pin is to pin the linkage at full speed for grinding. The R57 did not sense from the grinder outlet.
    Last edited by 12V71; 2 Weeks Ago at 10:09 PM.

  23. Likes Pilgrim liked this post
  24. #17
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Location
    NE
    Posts
    40
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: SA200 New to me.....Questions

    I would call stumpfs I believe they have a bone yard of sa 200’s. I’ve bought some parts off them that no one else had.

  25. Likes Pilgrim liked this post
  26. #18
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    17
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: SA200 New to me.....Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by 12V71 View Post
    Yep, that means the idler is working. The pins should be easy to find, the rod and spring... maybe check with the SA200 parts folks that do used parts?
    Also, I think Pipeliner Is right, the idler unit is upside down for whatever reason a previous owner had. The moving end of the arm with the cotter pin is usually "up". It has been 20 years since I had one but it does ring a bell. The cotter pin is to pin the linkage at full speed for grinding. The R57 did not sense from the grinder outlet.
    Thanks. I think the idler is right side up but the short arm with pins was upside-down. The flat bar sticking out horizontally from the idler at the bottom has 3 holes. It looks like at least one has to be pinned at all times or it would defeat itself. So one hole for grinding, one hole for normal operation and one hole for idle?
    Quote Originally Posted by Tigeze View Post
    I would call stumpfs I believe they have a bone yard of sa 200ís. Iíve bought some parts off them that no one else had.
    I called them and they said they probably have that stuff and will call me back. Thanks for the suggestion.
    Most likely the diaphram is what goes out and can't be replaced on that system and it gets replaced by electronic solenoid, so should be plenty around.

  27. #19
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Central Wa. state
    Posts
    5,301
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: SA200 New to me.....Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Pilgrim View Post
    Thanks. I think the idler is right side up but the short arm with pins was upside-down. The flat bar sticking out horizontally from the idler at the bottom has 3 holes. It looks like at least one has to be pinned at all times or it would defeat itself. So one hole for grinding, one hole for normal operation and one hole for idle?I called them and they said they probably have that stuff and will call me back. Thanks for the suggestion.
    Most likely the diaphram is what goes out and can't be replaced on that system and it gets replaced by electronic solenoid, so should be plenty around.
    Somewhere I have a 1969 SA 200 manual (rare huh?) Let me dig through the f(p)iling system and find it. Weld and idle did not need the pin. That was handled by the vacuum system, the pin was only needed to lock it at high idle for grinding. The trick was to tap the rod to get high idle and pin it before it dropped back to idle. I think in the day we would set the delay felt for about 8-10 seconds to idle after breaking the arc.
    Also, it appears the top pin in your pic is a rivet for the fixed arm pivot. That does tell me that the idler is upside down, that and I seem to remember cramping in from the other side to adjust the delay screw.

  28. Likes Pilgrim liked this post
  29. #20
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    17
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: SA200 New to me.....Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by 12V71 View Post
    Somewhere I have a 1969 SA 200 manual (rare huh?) Let me dig through the f(p)iling system and find it. Weld and idle did not need the pin. That was handled by the vacuum system, the pin was only needed to lock it at high idle for grinding. The trick was to tap the rod to get high idle and pin it before it dropped back to idle. I think in the day we would set the delay felt for about 8-10 seconds to idle after breaking the arc.
    Also, it appears the top pin in your pic is a rivet for the fixed arm pivot. That does tell me that the idler is upside down, that and I seem to remember cramping in from the other side to adjust the delay screw.
    What looks like a rivet is just the head of a pin. I removed the bar with 3 holes and put it back on the other way, with the business end up, see new pic. I don't think the idler is upside down because if I put it on the other way the vacuum adjustment would be towards the inside.
    Attached Images Attached Images  

  30. #21
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Location
    NE
    Posts
    40
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: SA200 New to me.....Questions

    Your idler is 100% upside down

  31. Likes Pilgrim liked this post
  32. #22
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Location
    NE
    Posts
    40
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: SA200 New to me.....Questions

    Any info you need on the idler can be found here.

    https://www.lincolnelectric.com/asse...oln3/im179.pdf

  33. Likes 12V71, Pilgrim liked this post
  34. #23
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    17
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: SA200 New to me.....Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Tigeze View Post
    Your idler is 100% upside down
    OK, you're right, thanks. Stumpf is sending the used rod and spring, I'll try them out when they get here.

  35. Likes 12V71, Tigeze liked this post
  36. #24
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Location
    NE
    Posts
    40
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: SA200 New to me.....Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by Pilgrim View Post
    OK, you're right, thanks. Stumpf is sending the used rod and spring, I'll try them out when they get here.
    Glad you found it. Stumpfs is awesome, they have everything.

  37. Likes Pilgrim liked this post
  38. #25
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    17
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: SA200 New to me.....Questions

    Just an update and thank you to all who contributed. Call the Preacher, I'm going to marry this weldor.
    I got the rod, pins and spring from Stumpf for the R57 vacuum idler and got it working great.....delay time 5 seconds, put a pin in it and the 120 VDC grinder outlet puts out 122volts. Open circuit voltage on the weld terminals is 81 VDC at 1550 RPM. Idle RPM is 1000. Commutator looks smooth.

    Only things left I can think of is I need to fix the 12 volt DC Delco generator, I see a wire loose inside.
    I noticed some of these F163 engines have some sort of heat tube and hose for the intake air, don't know anything about them, but I'm in Montana so I reckon I need to find one.
    On the Prestolite distributor, the timing only changes about one degree between 1000 and 1500 RPM, seems wrong but the engine runs great anyway.
    Last edited by Pilgrim; 1 Week Ago at 06:17 PM.

  39. Likes 12V71 liked this post

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Page generated in 1,638,801,451.37829 seconds with 15 queries