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Thread: FAIL! Collets 101

  1. #26
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    Re: FAIL! Collets 101

    Sam, you work hard, and you work clever, but you don't work smart

    Why did you need to drive 100 miles for a gauge that you didn't even need? The lathe is still in the threading gears that you used to cut the external thread... why should the pitch change? And the threadform is meaningless... you just want a good fit between nut and shaft!

    So again, I don't get it. You're clever, and you work hard, but the concept of "work smart" has totally eluded you... must be old age
    Murphy's Golden Rule: Whoever has the gold, makes the rules.

  2. #27
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    Re: FAIL! Collets 101

    Quote Originally Posted by Munkul View Post
    Sam, you work hard, and you work clever, but you don't work smart

    Why did you need to drive 100 miles for a gauge that you didn't even need? The lathe is still in the threading gears that you used to cut the external thread... why should the pitch change? And the threadform is meaningless... you just want a good fit between nut and shaft!

    So again, I don't get it. You're clever, and you work hard, but the concept of "work smart" has totally eluded you... must be old age
    How am I gonna set the threading tool perpendicular to the spindle????????? I'm doing the plug gage now......for the new nut.......and I'm using a HSS bit instead of the crappy carbide bit. So I need to get it square........can't do that without the center gage. The carbide toolholder has been removed, and toolpost turned to handle the facing tool. Besides..........the HSS bit is ground at an offset, and needs to be gaged to the surface of the stock.

    I suppose I could fiddle fart around, and use an angle block, but that's absolutely unwieldy.

    And I beg to differ Threadform is absolutely important for a plug gage. This ain't one 'a Nelson's cannons

  3. #28
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    Re: FAIL! Collets 101

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  4. #29
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    Re: FAIL! Collets 101

    Sam, we built a world empire on the back of nelson's cannons, it was only after we started caring about precision that we lost our edge

    Not being funny but it's a friggin bush hog. The shaft is already bent as a banana. You're trying to make a silk purse from a pig's ear.
    It's not going to care if the threads are squint. If the thread engagement is good, it will be fine. You've seen the tolerance on shop fasteners, most of them at slack as ****

    Most older machinists when they ground HSS for cutting threads just eyeballed it with a magnifying glass, unless it was ultra critical. Uranus Inc bush hog repair industries ain't critical

    These days of course, most people use insert threadforms, which are already square to axis if your toolpost is on 90 degrees. That's all I use anyway. Lay flat inserts are a little bit more resilient to interrupted cuts than the upright style.

    Again, making a plug gauge for the nut. Why? You have a perfectly good shaft there to use as a gauge.
    I think i mentioned it already, but personally if I HAD to do what you were doing I'd have made the nut FIRST and use that as the thread gauge for the shaft threads.

    Work smarter, not harder!
    Last edited by Munkul; 11-08-2021 at 08:16 AM.
    Murphy's Golden Rule: Whoever has the gold, makes the rules.

  5. #30
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    Re: FAIL! Collets 101

    No wonder the Empire shrunk to a smidgeon

    I dunno about other folks, but I use these to set the bit in relation to the stock that I'm ready to thread https://www.travers.com/product/ttc-...00-10%7CC%3A20 It's not just for grinding yer point.

  6. #31
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    Re: FAIL! Collets 101

    Let me elucidate....................................... Videos seem to work. Pictures are better than words for some folks


  7. #32
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    Re: FAIL! Collets 101

    Speaking of old school machinists.............................

    Got to 4:40ish on the video.


  8. #33
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    Re: FAIL! Collets 101

    All that Lend Lease stuff,, which saved yer bacon was made in this manner

  9. #34
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    Re: FAIL! Collets 101

    It's not that I disagree with the technique, it's a good technique, definitely. (I'm time served, I know how to single-point thread)

    It's that I disagree with you on the level of precision required. You're not making perfect threads to an ISO spec for a customer miles away, you're making a custom nut for a custom thread, on a banana'd old shaft. As long as they fit one another nicely, that's all that matters.

    Like I say, you could have eyeballed that and it would have been fine.

    I bet you have a protractor that you could have used one way or another. or SOME form of getting the cutting tip as square as you can.

    But you chose to drive 100 miles with a trailer on the back, for a crappy $5 gauge that you somehow convinced yourself was required....

    No wonder you can't get on, Sam, for getting in your own way!

    I say all this from the comfort of the internet, knowing that in person I'd be far too polite to say it to your face. I'd smile and be respectful of your seniority. It wouldn't stop me thinking it, though.
    Murphy's Golden Rule: Whoever has the gold, makes the rules.

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  11. #35
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    Re: FAIL! Collets 101

    Quote Originally Posted by farmersammm View Post
    All that Lend Lease stuff,, which saved yer bacon was made in this manner
    Deflecting the issue won't shut me up
    Murphy's Golden Rule: Whoever has the gold, makes the rules.

  12. #36
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    Re: FAIL! Collets 101

    Use a 60* carbide insert to set the threading tool with the shaft.

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  14. #37
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    Re: FAIL! Collets 101

    Quote Originally Posted by Munkul View Post
    Deflecting the issue won't shut me up
    I thought the issue was me losing my center gage

    Here it is in British if there's a language barrier problem.....................(I can't stop)


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  16. #38
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    Re: FAIL! Collets 101

    Quote Originally Posted by lars66 View Post
    Use a 60* carbide insert to set the threading tool with the shaft.
    All's I got is CCMT inserts.

    I could put a longer piece of round stock in the chuck, and use an angle block against the stock, then run the tip into the angle block side. But I gotta make the trip to pick up the pipe, so might as well pick up HALF A DOZEN gages. I might be able to keep track of 12

  17. #39
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    Re: FAIL! Collets 101

    To be clear.............the pipe yard where the J55 is to be returned, is in Tulsa on the same general route as the tool store (about 2 mi. off of I-44). So......on the way out of Tulsa, having to pass the exit to the tool store, I'll sashay on in and drop some coin.........before continuing on to the other pipe yard to pick up the 8". I'm just upset that I gotta actually WALK across the street cause I can't get in the parking lot with the 32' trailer

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  19. #40
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    Re: FAIL! Collets 101

    Why not just chuck up something with an existing 60 degree thread and set it to that? I can only imagine the dicking around to precisely set the compound to 29 degrees, 33 minutes and 13 seconds or whatever obscure angle is required to achieve NASA precision .

  20. #41
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    Re: FAIL! Collets 101

    I guess a guy could make a nut, and while it's on the lathe TRY TO SCREW IN A 10LB FINE THREADED SHAFT TO SEE IF IT'S A GOOD FIT. Not this boyo It's part of the reason I wasn't happy with the internal thread on the collet...........sure it fit for what I needed, but it had some fit issues if it was gonna be used as a for real nut.

    Or, I could remove the nut from the lathe, and try to see if it's a nice fit, then slap it back in the lathe to continue threading it Be interesting to see how that turns out

    Make a standard nut, and it should fit. Albeit I missed the pitch diameter on the shaft by .002 (mic was out of calibration when I originally checked diameter, ta weren't .004 (British)) . Machinery's says that the allowance on a 2B fit is .015 for the specs. So, ya gots a standard shaft thread, and a standard nut thread,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,it should fit.

    Which is the point(threading joke) of working to standards.

  21. #42
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    Re: FAIL! Collets 101

    Quote Originally Posted by farmersammm View Post

    Here it is in British if there's a language barrier problem.....................(I can't stop)
    That got a chuckle
    Murphy's Golden Rule: Whoever has the gold, makes the rules.

  22. #43
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    Re: FAIL! Collets 101

    Quote Originally Posted by Munkul View Post
    That got a chuckle
    Hey........you're one of the best. I always enjoy the banter. Makes my day. No kidding.

    Take care,, be safe, and have a good day/evening. I never know what time it is on different sides of the Planet.

    Gotta get my butt down the road with that stupid pipe

  23. #44
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    Re: FAIL! Collets 101

    Quote Originally Posted by farmersammm View Post
    Hey........you're one of the best. I always enjoy the banter. Makes my day. No kidding.

    Take care,, be safe, and have a good day/evening. I never know what time it is on different sides of the Planet.

    Gotta get my butt down the road with that stupid pipe
    You too, Sam. Always entertaining to read your threads, and I know your engineering is sound
    Murphy's Golden Rule: Whoever has the gold, makes the rules.

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  25. #45
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    Re: FAIL! Collets 101

    I Am A Freakin' Genius!!
    CSI: Oklahoma

    First off.............no pipe.......tractor died

    BUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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    I got out the little CSI flashlight, and wondered what Grissom might do...............
    Where could I have been when I misplaced the damn thing?
    Maybe dressing the point on the tool???????????

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    I'd looked here before......repeatedly
    This time I got out my little official CSI flashlight
    it had fallen edgewise between the dressing stone
    and something else!!!!!!!!!!!

    We're On a Roll Here!!

    Tractor's been starting hard, or not starting
    Have to fiddle with the shutoff knob thingy
    I messed with that pump for almost half a day
    checked flow from the tank clear to the pump
    THEN I DID THE UNTHINKABLE!!!!!!
    took off the cable connector.
    Grissom was whispering in my ear
    "Follow the facts"

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    Worn enough so's the shutoff lever on the pump doesn't open
    No diesel.....no start

    LIFE IS SWEET!!!!

    Found my favorite ruler yesterday
    Found my center gage today
    And solved the fuel crisis

  26. #46
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    Re: FAIL! Collets 101

    Now, back to yer regular programming.........................

    I specifically bought 12L14 to make a plug gage. It's one of the sweetest machining steels in the UNIVERSE.

    Yesterday, before the crisis I used the carbide tool to make a gage.

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    I think I did a thread a few years back "Carbide Sucks" or something to that effect. THIS IS WHY I DON'T LIKE CARBIDE. That is the worst damn finish I've ever seen on a thread. It just plain sucks, and it's full of "noise" on the V's. Will be hard to tell if a nut rotates smoothly on that rough crap.

    Before I lost the center gage, I was gonna make another one with HSS. They only take about 15 minutes to make, so might as well verify two things........................ #1 Carbide still sucks for threading #2 Did the mope on Fleabay send me something other than 12L14 (it looks like the right stuff, but only machining will tell)

    I mentioned earlier that this particular tool is a NOS Dorian.......which has been discontinued. I'm wondering if the way the thing was designed is the problem..........therefore they quit making them. The insert sits in the tool in a neutral rake. It's the deal........no way to change it. I'm not at all certain that a relatively dull carbide insert will function well at a neutral rake when a good finish is desired. HSS will, but generally I think carbide won't. Before I get a shtstorm of negative replies............with carbide, the insert might sit neutral, but the profile is either negative or positive. Depends on the insert, and tool holder design. Although, I'm not certain that any form tool can sit at any other angle than neutral

    I've experimented with this tool in the past................trying to justify keeping it, rather than chucking it over the fence into the pasture. I've set it below centerline, and no difference........it still just tears the metal, doesn't slice it.

    I hope I don't hit Bertha The Cow in the noggin when I toss this thing over the fence this evening.

  27. #47
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    Re: FAIL! Collets 101

    This is what 12L14 should look like.

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    And it looks like this with a HSS bit. If it doesn't look like this tomorrow, somebody is gonna get a hot Email on Fleabay. If I had one of those mondo dollar XRF analyzers, it would be a done deal...........know for sure what I have.

  28. #48
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    Re: FAIL! Collets 101

    "So....................I figure I ought to find the center gage sometime in December"

    Best way to find it is to start looking for something else...
    Last edited by whtbaron; 11-08-2021 at 09:46 PM.
    The harder you fall, the higher you bounce...

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  30. #49
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    Re: FAIL! Collets 101

    Need to chain it to a heavy large object like the old service station restroom key

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  32. #50
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    Re: FAIL! Collets 101

    Quote Originally Posted by M J D View Post
    Need to chain it to a heavy large object like the old service station restroom key


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