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Thread: FAIL! Collets 101

  1. #101
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    Re: FAIL! Collets 101

    Name:  rhino55.jpg
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Size:  211.2 KB Time to center the part in relation to the mill spindle. All's good. (Reason the part is now hollow is that I used the crappy carbide cut plug gage, then had to correct the situation using the pristine 12L14 gage. Luckily I had enough material to swap ends,, and do the machining right. I picked up the wrong gage.........it now resides out in the pasture)

    So...............I'm ready to do the slots for the wrench, and I look in the coolant sump. I'm tired of fighting bacterial growth.

    So Sammy heads to the City to do some shopping.

    Name:  rhino56.jpg
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Size:  219.4 KB Carbide end mill + a few other goodies. No coolant required.

    Got my Carl's Junior, and decided to do some more shopping

    Name:  rhino57.jpg
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Size:  123.8 KB Ambled on by the steel store, got a verbal quote, and the fella sent a quote to the house via that magic internet thingy. A-500. The good stuff, and what any sane person would spec. I strayed off the straight, and narrow, but came back to what the right thing oughta be. Anything else is just trash off the internet...........expertise worth what ya pay for it.

    Dump the crap at the auction yard, the head off to pick up what I shoulda bought in the first place.

    Bein' as I ain't a pipe guy....................it's the 6" square 3/16 wall tubing. Life is back on track. We agreed that when I come to pay, and pick up, they'll put a stick of the 3/16 on the fork lift, and a stick of the 1/4 on the forklift. I'll decide which one I want, when I see the deflection.

  2. #102
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    Re: FAIL! Collets 101

    The boss is happy (K'kins). No more of that moronic crap that folks do. Keyboard warriors. We's gettin' down the to the real. Took me a while, but I got on track, and I'm as happy as a pig dipped in ...........

    Unsolicited advice, in this day and age, and probably back to caveman times............is just that. Worth a pittance.

    Gonna be a nice early Winter. The Fab Shop is soon to be open for bizzzzness

    Don't like it, sorry..................Some people actually look at this sht, and do stuff according to what they read. I don't feel like having that on my conscience. Do it right, or go home.

    Used to be some good people on here. Mostly gone now. The place is devolving into something akin to Pirate 4x4.

    Little short story...................

    Always had a hard time finding someone that could properly align a front end. No kidding....................they're far, and few between.

    Got the doooooods that would tell ya that they've been doin' it this way for 100yrs. Then ya got the doooood that actually LOOKED IN THE BOOK FOR THE SPECS FOR YOUR VEHICLE. Wanna guess which doood did the front end right???????????? And, ya wanna guess which dood did the alignment, and the truck actually tracked right????????

    I get told that I'm just believing what I read off the internet. BY GUYS THAT ONLY EXIST ON THE INTERNET. Ya wanna tell me that your expertise ain't any better than anything else I read..................although I tend to read things that are bonafide. And back it up by stuff that's in print. Geeeeeez doods, get real.

    I have no idea what a chartered engineer is, but I'd hope that sorta person has nothing to do with anything I do. Get real.

    Am I gettin' ugly............................shure............. .but I'm responding in kind

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  4. #103
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    Re: FAIL! Collets 101

    Steve From So Cal gave about the only useable advice in this whole thing.

  5. #104
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    Re: FAIL! Collets 101

    Lateral bracing is gonna be totally unique, thanks Steve.

  6. #105
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    Re: FAIL! Collets 101

    Quote Originally Posted by farmersammm View Post
    The boss is happy (K'kins). No more of that moronic crap that folks do. Keyboard warriors. We's gettin' down the to the real. Took me a while, but I got on track, and I'm as happy as a pig dipped in ...........

    Unsolicited advice, in this day and age, and probably back to caveman times............is just that. Worth a pittance.

    Gonna be a nice early Winter. The Fab Shop is soon to be open for bizzzzness

    Don't like it, sorry..................Some people actually look at this sht, and do stuff according to what they read. I don't feel like having that on my conscience. Do it right, or go home.

    Used to be some good people on here. Mostly gone now. The place is devolving into something akin to Pirate 4x4.

    Little short story...................

    Always had a hard time finding someone that could properly align a front end. No kidding....................they're far, and few between.

    Got the doooooods that would tell ya that they've been doin' it this way for 100yrs. Then ya got the doooood that actually LOOKED IN THE BOOK FOR THE SPECS FOR YOUR VEHICLE. Wanna guess which doood did the front end right???????????? And, ya wanna guess which dood did the alignment, and the truck actually tracked right????????

    I get told that I'm just believing what I read off the internet. BY GUYS THAT ONLY EXIST ON THE INTERNET. Ya wanna tell me that your expertise ain't any better than anything else I read..................although I tend to read things that are bonafide. And back it up by stuff that's in print. Geeeeeez doods, get real.

    I have no idea what a chartered engineer is, but I'd hope that sorta person has nothing to do with anything I do. Get real.

    Am I gettin' ugly............................shure............. .but I'm responding in kind
    You dont need to defend what your doing, anyone who's been around knows your going about it in the most time consuming and expensive manner. As for " right way" that's a relative term. As the dreamers say " it's not the destination, it's the journey". Well this is certainly the overland route with a more detours and roadblocks that anyone could imagine. What I do find puzzling and yet amusing at the same time is you ask for answers and or advice then blast them when they give it. The only real " keyboard warrior" is yourself. Combine that with ego stroking, self induced problems and a whole lot of pity seeking. Oh well, will it work? Who knows, the real question is will it ever get completed ? Building Noah's ark was the right call when he was told it would rain for 40 days and 40 nights, but would the same ark be required if it sprinkled for 4 hrs. At least after seeing all this fuchery to do a simple job,( which is after all the destination) I can always look back and say some time wasting job wasn't such a waste after all. Rant over, let the drama continue.

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  8. #106
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    Re: FAIL! Collets 101

    Sam, don't be salty just because we told you you should buy some concrete
    Murphy's Golden Rule: Whoever has the gold, makes the rules.

  9. #107
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    Re: FAIL! Collets 101

    Name:  rhino58.jpg
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Size:  244.9 KB Checked the the slot depth on an OEM nut. Slots not right, tool won't fit.

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    Figured all that was left, was to saw the part off the stub.......................

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Size:  205.9 KB The part walked, and the saw took it for a spin.

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Size:  239.5 KB Finished cutting the part on the saw, well clear of the damage. Milled the excess, and damaged area. Luckily, the damage didn't affect the required dimensions. Got REAL lucky.

  10. #108
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    Re: FAIL! Collets 101

    Name:  rhino63.jpg
Views: 399
Size:  190.0 KB Little parts held in a chuck can have disastrous runout, so it pays to check.

    Name:  rhino64.jpg
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Size:  181.4 KB Small cleanup chamfer, and it's a done deal. There isn't another nut on the planet like this one. They simply don't make them in this thread size. Leastways, none I could find.

    Name:  rhino65.jpg
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Size:  234.9 KB New partzzzzzzzz, and the old nut that caused all the damage.

    Check runout on the tapered blade flange, and it's ready to go back in the machine.

    Name:  rhino66.jpg
Views: 400
Size:  164.7 KB OEM nut on the shaft. The new thread is 1/16 smaller diameter. I don't feel it should affect the strength. Did a nice chamfered, and radiused transition, from the new thread to the remaining shaft. This ought to prevent any stress problems at the transition.

  11. #109
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    Re: FAIL! Collets 101

    I was a carbide naysayer for years, but I gotta say that they're the bee's knees for milling. I'm mostly transitioned completely away from HSS. No more rancid coolant, and no more machine rust problems.

    Still prefer the HSS for the lathe. Cuts nicer at lower speeds, and economical, because it's a matter of minutes to sharpen the tool, and get back to work. At the speeds I run, I have completely given up on carbide threading..................just doesn't work at slower speeds.

  12. #110
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    Re: FAIL! Collets 101

    Name:  rhino67.jpg
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Size:  188.8 KB Cleaned the face of the hub, then seated it on the shaft. Not bolted, but seated with rubber mallet. This is just a preliminary look see.

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    Name:  rhino69.jpg
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Size:  172.5 KB Radial runout at the chuck.

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    Name:  rhino71.jpg
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Size:  169.6 KB Radial runout just shy of the bearing journal.

    The .005 runout is most likely caused by the center that was damaged by the puller. Surprisingly, it's not that far out. So, all things considered..............I'm calling the shaft good.

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    Re: FAIL! Collets 101

    Name:  rhino72.jpg
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    Name:  rhino73.jpg
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Size:  240.2 KB Axial runout at the face of the hub.

    To verify, I'll go ahead and make sure the taper is spotless on the shaft, and hub............then reassemble it at torque. If it tests out the same, it gets faced.

  14. #112
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    Re: FAIL! Collets 101

    Name:  rhino75.jpg
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Size:  210.5 KB Because I ain't no machinist, I find some things interesting, and sorta fun.

    With the, what turned out to be, slight damage to one of the centers..............there's a concentricity problem which can affect any facing operations.

    Axial runout is one thing.............lack of concentricity another. You can check axial runout all day long with the part in an offset position between the headstock, and tailstock. The results will be accurate, but not pertinent when thinking about facing anything on that shaft.

    Before removing the shaft from the lathe, I trammed the shaft. I'm showing about .002-.005 "taper" over the length of the shaft at various clocked positions. This is the result of the bad center. Some of the error, no doubt, is due to the shaft being held on a dead center at the headstock, which is held in the 3 jaw chuck. 3 jaws have a bit of inherent runout.

    Simple way to go about reducing any error is to switch to a 4 jaw, true up the dead center, and see where the cookies fall.

    If there's still appreciable error in the damaged center, it's just a matter of compensating with the 4 jaw, and clocking the part to the 4 jaw for turning. I can keep the shaft in a static position, relative to the chuck, by using a dog. It's not rocket science, but if you don't do this for a living, it's interesting to deal with.

  15. #113
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    Re: FAIL! Collets 101

    Curious to see pictures of the threading tools you used. Earlier you showed an upright insert tool, which you said did not work well. Later you refer to HSS. I want to learn to thread with my SB 13 and understand getting the tooling right is a big piece of the puzzle.

  16. #114
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    Re: FAIL! Collets 101

    Love the explanation posts OP…fun to watch your efforts.

  17. #115
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    Re: FAIL! Collets 101

    Quote Originally Posted by Zimm View Post
    Curious to see pictures of the threading tools you used. Earlier you showed an upright insert tool, which you said did not work well. Later you refer to HSS. I want to learn to thread with my SB 13 and understand getting the tooling right is a big piece of the puzzle.
    Name:  threading tools.jpg
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    Name:  threading tools 2.jpg
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Size:  146.9 KB The internal threading/boring bar is very nice. They're designed to hold ground high speed steel (HSS) bits that you make yourself. One end holds threading tools, the angled end holds a tool for boring that allows you to cut ahead of the bar as it goes deeper into the bore.

    They're getting harder to find, but are available https://www.ebay.com/itm/32487432625...QAAOSwS0phigA7

    Name:  threading tool 4.jpg
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    Name:  threading tool3.jpg
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Size:  170.2 KB Simple HSS bit used for external threading.

    One tool blank can literally last a lifetime. Once you get it ground to the required 60* angle, it's just a matter of keeping them sharp with a touch on the grinder, or a stone.

    Great set of books for the basics of machining https://www.ebay.com/itm/27502783639...AAAOSwfg5hiDCk These are like the Lincoln book on welding. Simple, basic, and well written. Most of the old texts were.

    Video guides are available on YouTube from Open Source Machine Tools...............some excellent older training films https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC79...q-SAM-g/videos

    Small lathes, like ours, benefit from HSS tooling. Sharp edges will work better at lower rpm's, and lower horsepower. Carbide generally requires a fast, heavy, cut..........something hard to do on a small lathe.

    As far as understanding threading dials................just copy a pic off the Net, and use it for reference. No need to understand the underlying principles.

    If your machine has an 8TPI lead screw, copy this one, and you're golden.

    Name:  threading tool 5.jpg
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    Machinery's Handbook has all the data needed for all kinds of threadforms. Ebay has them relatively cheap. Any of them are good, no matter what year they were published (within reason) Something from the 70's is just as good as something printed last year. This stuff doesn't change. https://www.ebay.com/itm/23428216225...oAAOSw5hNhjZQU

  18. #116
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    Re: FAIL! Collets 101

    There's usually a great deal of discussion regarding grinding a flat on the tip of a threading bit. Mostly about providing a sort of radius at the root of the thread, making it stronger.........less likely to fail from stress. These flats are very well defined as to width. Something, that if you're starting out, isn't absolutely necessary..........but realize that you'll get slammed in a discussion if you don't at least pay lip service to the concept

    The flat also can relate to thread depth..............something I don't pay attention to. I measure pitch diameter, so thread depth isn't a factor I consider. Thread depth is handy if you're doing a batch of parts, otherwise you'll either gage of an existing nut, use a thread micrometer, or measure over 3 wires with a regular micrometer. https://www.ebay.com/itm/26509878863...kAAOSwTeVhlbog In reality, thread depth is a poor substitute for actually knowing your pitch diameter.

    I generally just give the tip of the threading tool a kiss with a stone to gently round the tip. It's almost imperceptible,, but keeps the tip from wearing prematurely, and adds a bit of radius to the root of the thread. It's not 100% correct, but works for what I do.

    The only important measurements are major diameter, minor diameter,, and pitch diameter. Major is the crest, minor is the root,, and pitch is the flank of the thread.

    I really only use the minor diameter as a depth point for my relief cut (where the tool runs off at the end of the thread). Actual depth is either determined by fit, or by measuring the pitch diameter.

    Major diameter is mainly used for clearance. It is mostly important so that the nut/screw don't interfere with each other when they mate.

    Turn the OD to the major diameter. Then go to the end of the thread, and plunge to the minor diameter for your relief. Then just take passes until the nut fits, or you hit your pitch measurement.

  19. #117
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    Re: FAIL! Collets 101

    Was looking a the GOBOB video for the construction of the trailer, and he never mentioned the composition of the pipes. Then the next video came on it was about gates. I just have to share...

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    Well at least the gate and H-frame look like they're well made.
    Airco 250 ac/dc Heliwelder Square wave
    Miller Synchrowave 180 sd
    Miller Econo Twin HF
    Lincoln 210 MP
    Dayton 225 ac/dc
    Victor torches
    Snap-On YA-212
    Lotos Cut60D
    Primeweld 225 ac/dc
    Primeweld mig180
    Miller AEAD-200

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  21. #118
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    Re: FAIL! Collets 101


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  23. #119
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    Re: FAIL! Collets 101

    So how flat is the plate that fits against that? I assume that's next?
    The harder you fall, the higher you bounce...

    250 amp Miller DialArc AC/DC Stick
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  24. #120
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    Re: FAIL! Collets 101

    Quote Originally Posted by whtbaron View Post
    So how flat is the plate that fits against that? I assume that's next?
    You WOULD have to rain on my parade

    If it's not too messed up, I'm hoping I can flame straighten it. Little bit of heat shrinking might pull it in close. I haven't gotten to that point yet. This thing just goes on into eternity

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  26. #121
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    Re: FAIL! Collets 101

    Time out.....................................

    Besides being master welder, NASA machinist, hedge fund manager, and just plain ol' annoying geezer............I'M AN HVAC DOOOOOOOOD (When the boss says she's tired of not having any heat in the house)

    Haven't fired up the heater yet this year because it's needing its annual cleaning.

    Name:  rhino76.jpg
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    Name:  rhino79.jpg
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Size:  205.8 KB I like to remove the entire blower assembly, and blow out the squirrel cage. Amazing what collects in there. I feel it throws the fan out of balance,, and probably ruins it with time. This one is going on about 25yrs old.

    Name:  rhino80.jpg
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Size:  227.8 KB Then I open up the plenum, and blow the fins out. House used to have central air,, but when I found out how much it was gonna cost to fix the outdoor comressor unit.....................I decided to be an ecologist, and switch to window units I'd like to get rid of the little doghouse thing, but the exhaust piping is in the way, and I believe I'd have to start at the roof, and work my way down, to disassemble it to get it out of the way. BTW, the window units actually save a ton of money. Our worst electric bill during Summer runs about $85

    Name:  rhino81.jpg
Views: 176
Size:  210.4 KB Is ya thinkin' it might need a new air filter????

    This is why it takes forever to get stuff done. Gotta take time out to preserve domestic bliss

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  28. #122
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    Re: FAIL! Collets 101

    I have a couple small grain air fans like that on 3 hp motors I can move around in a hurry at harvest time. It's amazing how a little crud on those impeller blades just drops the efficiency down to almost nothing.
    The harder you fall, the higher you bounce...

    250 amp Miller DialArc AC/DC Stick
    F-225 amp Forney AC Stick
    230 amp Sears AC Stick
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  29. #123
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    Re: FAIL! Collets 101

    Quote Originally Posted by farmersammm View Post
    Time out.....................................

    Besides being master welder, NASA machinist, hedge fund manager, and just plain ol' annoying geezer............I'M AN HVAC DOOOOOOOOD (When the boss says she's tired of not having any heat in the house)

    Haven't fired up the heater yet this year because it's needing its annual cleaning.

    Name:  rhino76.jpg
Views: 176
Size:  227.4 KB

    Name:  rhino79.jpg
Views: 170
Size:  205.8 KB I like to remove the entire blower assembly, and blow out the squirrel cage. Amazing what collects in there. I feel it throws the fan out of balance,, and probably ruins it with time. This one is going on about 25yrs old.

    Name:  rhino80.jpg
Views: 170
Size:  227.8 KB Then I open up the plenum, and blow the fins out. House used to have central air,, but when I found out how much it was gonna cost to fix the outdoor comressor unit.....................I decided to be an ecologist, and switch to window units I'd like to get rid of the little doghouse thing, but the exhaust piping is in the way, and I believe I'd have to start at the roof, and work my way down, to disassemble it to get it out of the way. BTW, the window units actually save a ton of money. Our worst electric bill during Summer runs about $85

    Name:  rhino81.jpg
Views: 176
Size:  210.4 KB Is ya thinkin' it might need a new air filter????

    This is why it takes forever to get stuff done. Gotta take time out to preserve domestic bliss
    As somebody who actually does HVAC for a living for the last 20 years, what I'm thinking is that if that blower housing is that corroded, then the heat exchanger is likely not far behind, and you'd better have a look at it or at least make sure your CO detectors are in good working order. I don't know what decade you last changed that filter, but it would be a super idea to change it more frequently. A plugged filter will change more fan efficiency than ten years' accumulation on the squirrel cage, and that one is a long way past plugged. In fact, it's probably plugged enough that you've been exercising the temperature limit switches- the ones that keep your house from burning down- and in a well maintained system under normal conditions they should never open. In any case, a guy with breathing problems and a furnace in this condition are a terrible combination. A new filter is like three bucks- maybe once a year isn't such a great idea?

  30. #124
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    Re: FAIL! Collets 101

    Cleared For Takeoff




    We generally go through maybe 2, sometimes 3, filters during the season. I think the problem is that the return is directly across from the cooking stove in the kitchen. Lot of fine grease particles in the air, combined with the constant flow of dried mud from shoes on the floor. Not to mention the pup that constantly likes to be scratched.........tons of hair on the floor. We keep it swept, but it's still pretty hard on the filter I'm thinking.

    I tried the paper non-allergen filters once, and they seemed to put a real load on the blower + reducing the air velocity at the hot air vents. I've always gone back to the fiberglass filters.

  31. #125
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    Re: FAIL! Collets 101

    Quote Originally Posted by Oxford1 View Post
    As somebody who actually does HVAC for a living for the last 20 years, what I'm thinking is that if that blower housing is that corroded, then the heat exchanger is likely not far behind, and you'd better have a look at it or at least make sure your CO detectors are in good working order. I don't know what decade you last changed that filter, but it would be a super idea to change it more frequently. A plugged filter will change more fan efficiency than ten years' accumulation on the squirrel cage, and that one is a long way past plugged. In fact, it's probably plugged enough that you've been exercising the temperature limit switches- the ones that keep your house from burning down- and in a well maintained system under normal conditions they should never open. In any case, a guy with breathing problems and a furnace in this condition are a terrible combination. A new filter is like three bucks- maybe once a year isn't such a great idea?
    Na, all that rust will buff right out

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