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Thread: Would I be wrong to use 6013 over 7018 on this?

  1. #151
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    Re: Would I be wrong to use 6013 over 7018 on this?

    Quote Originally Posted by farmersammm View Post
    For that crappy angle iron................chipping hammer, and die grinder with small cup brush.
    I've used the 2 to 3" wire wheels chucked in the rechargeable drill too.... works good...
    The harder you fall, the higher you bounce...

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  2. #152
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    Re: Would I be wrong to use 6013 over 7018 on this?

    Quote Originally Posted by whtbaron View Post
    I've used the 2 to 3" wire wheels chucked in the rechargeable drill too.... works good...
    I have knotted wheels that rip it right off. I’m at work though with none of my stuff here I have to bring it in. I was using an automotive trim removal tool as a chipping hammer lol

    I’m just curious how these guys get the self peeling slag.
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  4. #153
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    Re: Would I be wrong to use 6013 over 7018 on this?

    Looks good. Is your weld convex or concave, cannot tell from the photo? Convex with no undercut releases easier. I use a modded file to rake slag.

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    Re: Would I be wrong to use 6013 over 7018 on this?

    Quote Originally Posted by BrooklynBravest View Post
    I have knotted wheels that rip it right off. I’m at work though with none of my stuff here I have to bring it in. I was using an automotive trim removal tool as a chipping hammer lol

    I’m just curious how these guys get the self peeling slag.
    Self peeling slag comes from the slag shrinking as it cools. A fillet weld is a lot less likely to peel than a butt weld as the corners hold it. Some electrodes, such as Excalibur 7018 have harder to remove slag than say atom arc or McKay 7018, must be electrode composition. Either way I wouldn't dwell much on self peeling slag ,as it's what's underneath that really matters

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  7. #155
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    Re: Would I be wrong to use 6013 over 7018 on this?

    Since people are involved, 7018 is the rod of choice. A wire wheel takes slag off fairly easily if you can get at it. What is frustrating for me is people with little experience offering advice like they have have been welding for 30 years. A year ago they were asking for basic advice on welding. Kind of like a gung ho 1st year apprentice just out of school figuring he know's it all. I've mis-spoke in he past but I've never gave bad advice as far as safety is concerned. The thought of using 6013 on a platform for training scares me almost to the point that if you have to ask, you aren't qualified to be doing the welding regardless what rods you use. 6013 is definitely not a structural rod. New 7018 out of the box is fine for 95% of the welding that requires it's strength. Ovens are only required for critical work like pressure vessel's and piping. As long as 7018 is dry it should be fine. You can even short it out on the plate for a couple sec's. if you're worried it might have some moisture. As far as the fit up, it just needs the inside corner nipped to fit properly. When I built large skids for oil and gas processing equipment, the engineers always allowed for a 1/8" penetration gap. We usually ignored it because often it would leave too big of a gap. Everything was welded on both sides so there were no strength issues.

  8. #156
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    Re: Would I be wrong to use 6013 over 7018 on this?

    Quote Originally Posted by tapwelder View Post
    Looks good. Is your weld convex or concave, cannot tell from the photo? Convex with no undercut releases easier. I use a modded file to rake slag.
    It’s definitely more to the concave end for the fillet. I slowed travel speed down letting it build more and it did come off easier.
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  9. #157
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    Re: Would I be wrong to use 6013 over 7018 on this?

    Quote Originally Posted by Welder Dave View Post
    Since people are involved, 7018 is the rod of choice. A wire wheel takes slag off fairly easily if you can get at it. What is frustrating for me is people with little experience offering advice like they have have been welding for 30 years. A year ago they were asking for basic advice on welding. Kind of like a gung ho 1st year apprentice just out of school figuring he know's it all. I've mis-spoke in he past but I've never gave bad advice as far as safety is concerned. The thought of using 6013 on a platform for training scares me almost to the point that if you have to ask, you aren't qualified to be doing the welding regardless what rods you use. 6013 is definitely not a structural rod. New 7018 out of the box is fine for 95% of the welding that requires it's strength. Ovens are only required for critical work like pressure vessel's and piping. As long as 7018 is dry it should be fine. You can even short it out on the plate for a couple sec's. if you're worried it might have some moisture. As far as the fit up, it just needs the inside corner nipped to fit properly. When I built large skids for oil and gas processing equipment, the engineers always allowed for a 1/8" penetration gap. We usually ignored it because often it would leave too big of a gap. Everything was welded on both sides so there were no strength issues.
    You would surely be mortified by the amount of stuff at the FDNY fire academy that was welded together by guys who are part time iron workers and even more part time welders.
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    Re: Would I be wrong to use 6013 over 7018 on this?

    I’m just curious how these guys get the self peeling slag.
    You have to get the heat and the travel speed just right to get a peel. a little too much or too little either way will make the slag not peel. It takes practice. I find the excalibur rods peel easier than the Hobart 7018s from tractor supply. But even the Hobart rods will peel if you get the speed and heat correct.
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    Re: Would I be wrong to use 6013 over 7018 on this?

    I wonder what the millions of pounds of 6013 sold every year do? Lots of it in 5/32 and was widely used till 18 came along. Still is. Might even be as much or more used than lo hy due to the fact its used in ag and other general work.

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    Re: Would I be wrong to use 6013 over 7018 on this?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sberry View Post
    I wonder what the millions of pounds of 6013 sold every year do? Lots of it in 5/32 and was widely used till 18 came along. Still is. Might even be as much or more used than lo hy due to the fact its used in ag and other general work.
    I think the reality for any welding is that in most applications even the ****tiest of welds have proven to be quite resilient.

    This tower is going to hold maybe 500 pounds at any given time and each piece has around 4-6 4” beads on it, even if I did an absolutely horrible job welding it, it would take thousands of pounds to bring it down.

    When it’s something like a building with real dynamic loads it surely matters more.
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  14. #161
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    Re: Would I be wrong to use 6013 over 7018 on this?

    I like self peeling welds.
    I found when all settings and technician is just right, most wire/rod will peel.
    The rods and wire I found will easily peel is E6013, E7024, E71T-11 and E71T-1.

    It makes cleanup easier

    Dave

    Quote Originally Posted by Louie1961 View Post
    You have to get the heat and the travel speed just right to get a peel. a little too much or too little either way will make the slag not peel. It takes practice. I find the excalibur rods peel easier than the Hobart 7018s from tractor supply. But even the Hobart rods will peel if you get the speed and heat correct.

  15. #162
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    Re: Would I be wrong to use 6013 over 7018 on this?

    Here is a non finalized draft of the plan.

    The railings will be a lot more intricate, ladder off the side and whatnot. Second deck has a window in it for window rescue stuff. I just don't have it in me to draw it right now.

    That lower tier of bracing may or may not be there. I think being angle iron legs it will need it though for a span of around 10 feet. The tower is 20 to the deck though. Might reduce the overall height 2-3 feet.
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    Last edited by BrooklynBravest; 11-26-2021 at 08:53 AM.
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  16. #163
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    Re: Would I be wrong to use 6013 over 7018 on this?

    Brought some scraps of the angle home to mess with.

    Those are 7018 1/8 @ 130 amps

    Got some porosity i guess from the arc getting too long in that spot Iím not sure. Iím still using the **** Lincoln rods from Home Depot everyone said suck for porosity though.

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    Re: Would I be wrong to use 6013 over 7018 on this?

    7018 - yes, it looks better than anything else in this thread. i figured u could do it

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    Re: Would I be wrong to use 6013 over 7018 on this?

    Looks like 7018AC.

  19. #166
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    Re: Would I be wrong to use 6013 over 7018 on this?

    From what I see on this site, I would bet You guys could even tell what box the welding rods came out of. Serial number and all.

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  21. #167
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    Re: Would I be wrong to use 6013 over 7018 on this?

    "Let me preface this by saying I don’t stick weld often." What else can anyone need? I'll bet ten more pages are to come! There really isn't much worth here to catching one's interest anymore. Didn't used to be that way. Kinda sad but most of these forums die from everyone leaving except those who have a congenital need to yap.

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  23. #168
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    Re: Would I be wrong to use 6013 over 7018 on this?

    Quote Originally Posted by Yofish View Post
    "Let me preface this by saying I don’t stick weld often." What else can anyone need? I'll bet ten more pages are to come! There really isn't much worth here to catching one's interest anymore. Didn't used to be that way. Kinda sad but most of these forums die from everyone leaving except those who have a congenital need to yap.
    Or people who show up occasionally to pisz and moan.

  24. #169
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    Re: Would I be wrong to use 6013 over 7018 on this?

    Quote Originally Posted by Yofish View Post
    "Let me preface this by saying I don’t stick weld often." What else can anyone need? I'll bet ten more pages are to come! There really isn't much worth here to catching one's interest anymore. Didn't used to be that way. Kinda sad but most of these forums die from everyone leaving except those who have a congenital need to yap.
    I think we are also more in the age of facebook groups than forums. Its just where the internet has mostly moved to.

    Quote Originally Posted by farmersammm View Post
    Looks like 7018AC.
    yep... The lincoln **** from home depot everyone said sucks. So I'm not sure if the problem is the wizard or the wand, or a little of both
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    Re: Would I be wrong to use 6013 over 7018 on this?

    Quote Originally Posted by BrooklynBravest View Post
    I think we are also more in the age of facebook groups than forums. Its just where the internet has mostly moved to.



    yep... The lincoln **** from home depot everyone said sucks. So I'm not sure if the problem is the wizard or the wand, or a little of both
    It runs strangely nowdays. Used to be a good reliable rod for those who either didn't have a DC machine, or for use when arc blow is severe.

    The porosity is common, even though you keep arc length to a minimum.................so I wouldn't let that bother you. You're not doing anything wrong. About all you can do is absolutely shove the rod into the steel, and even then it might run weird.

    Porosity is generally limited to the surface of the weld, but sometimes extends into the bead.

    Don't toss it out. It's the bomb for tacking, due to the easy restrike.

  26. #171
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    Re: Would I be wrong to use 6013 over 7018 on this?

    Quote Originally Posted by farmersammm View Post
    It runs strangely nowdays. Used to be a good reliable rod for those who either didn't have a DC machine, or for use when arc blow is severe.

    The porosity is common, even though you keep arc length to a minimum.................so I wouldn't let that bother you. You're not doing anything wrong. About all you can do is absolutely shove the rod into the steel, and even then it might run weird.

    Porosity is generally limited to the surface of the weld, but sometimes extends into the bead.

    Don't toss it out. It's the bomb for tacking, due to the easy restrike.
    The 7014 we had ran great. I'm gonna use that for anything that isn't vertical. I ordered a pack of 3/32 forney brand 7018 and of course it showed up and the package says 7018AC. Wasn't listed on amazon as such.

    I ordered the same thing as non AC now to give it a go.

    Again there's 6, 4" long welds per piece of angle on this thing, even if it was the worst welds in America it isn't gonna be an issue. I just want it to look nice aesthetically.
    Last edited by BrooklynBravest; 11-27-2021 at 09:24 AM.
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  27. #172
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    Re: Would I be wrong to use 6013 over 7018 on this?

    I would use the rod that works the best for you. They all will do the job per AWS.

    Dave

    Quote Originally Posted by BrooklynBravest View Post
    The 7014 we had ran great. I'm gonna use that for anything that isn't vertical. I ordered a pack of 3/32 forney brand 7018 and of course it showed up and the package says 7018AC. Wasn't listed on amazon as such.

    I ordered the same thing as non AC now to give it a go.

    Again there's 6, 4" long welds per piece of angle on this thing, even if it was the worst welds in America it isn't gonna be an issue. I just want it to look nice aesthetically.

  28. #173
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    Re: Would I be wrong to use 6013 over 7018 on this?

    It was about took 30 years before build ships use welding on large scale.

    Before 1900 it was bare rod and newspaper. Back in 1960's I saw wood box's of bare rod for arc welding and told "it works great by rolling in newspaper."

    HISTORY OF TODAY'S RODS
    In approximately 1900, Strohmenger introduced a coated metal electrode in Great Britain. There was a thin coating of clay or lime, but it provided a more stable arc. Oscar Kjellberg of Sweden invented a covered or coated electrode during the period of 1907 to 1914.

    Stick electrodes were produced by dipping short lengths of bare iron wire in thick mixtures of carbonates and silicates and allowing the coating to dry
    From
    https://weldinginfocenter.com/his_01/#1890

    Dave

    Quote Originally Posted by BrooklynBravest View Post
    The 7014 we had ran great. I'm gonna use that for anything that isn't vertical. I ordered a pack of 3/32 forney brand 7018 and of course it showed up and the package says 7018AC. Wasn't listed on amazon as such.

    I ordered the same thing as non AC now to give it a go.

    Again there's 6, 4" long welds per piece of angle on this thing, even if it was the worst welds in America it isn't gonna be an issue. I just want it to look nice aesthetically.
    Last edited by smithdoor; 11-27-2021 at 11:13 AM.

  29. #174
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    Re: Would I be wrong to use 6013 over 7018 on this?

    Alright after hours of messing around this is as good as it gets porosity wise.

    I canít see anything else to change other than ditching the rods that everyone did say sucked. (Home Depot Lincoln 7018AC)

    My process currently is:

    -Strike arc about 1Ē inward
    -steady move back to the start slight pause
    -weld with rod basically touching the metal
    -pull back and pause briefly at end of weld about 1/2
    -whip/pull rod quickly out of puddle to terminate it.

    Iím ordering regular 7018, if thatís all it is and i wasted all my time over $15 Iíll be fairly annoyed lol.

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    Re: Would I be wrong to use 6013 over 7018 on this?

    Quote Originally Posted by Yofish View Post
    "Let me preface this by saying I donít stick weld often." What else can anyone need? I'll bet ten more pages are to come! There really isn't much worth here to catching one's interest anymore. Didn't used to be that way. Kinda sad but most of these forums die from everyone leaving except those who have a congenital need to yap.
    And yet here you areÖ..


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