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Thread: E7018 the right way and why

  1. #51
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    Re: E7018 the right way and why

    IMOP,,, the cheap inverter has made sticks way more practical/convenient than ever. It has allowed real work from 120V.

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  3. #52
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    Re: E7018 the right way and why

    Find me a FCAW wire that runs at 100 amps and gives mechanical properties of a 7018.

    It doesn't exist!

    E71T-1 does NOT have the same properties as 7018!
    Which properties, exactly? Lincoln 71M will run at 100 amps (give or take) and has properties that, on paper, seem to exceed the mechanical properties of their Excalibur 7018

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    Miller Multimatic 255

  4. #53
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    Re: E7018 the right way and why

    E71T-11 and E7018 has a about same yield 70,000 psi.
    AWS set is 58,000 psi for standard type.
    Hard to compare a CV and CC welding machines. They close but one set the voltage and the you set the current.

    T8 and T11 takes different rod and wire.

    Dave

    Quote Originally Posted by Munkul View Post
    Find me a FCAW wire that runs at 100 amps and gives mechanical properties of a 7018.

    It doesn't exist!

    E71T-1 does NOT have the same properties as 7018!

    T-8 and T-11 wires do not run at 100 amps!


    I have organised and supervised critical coded repair works to some old mixer paddles on chemical vessels. In each case we used a small 150 amp MMA inverter running off a long extension, and 1/8" 7018 for mechanical properties. Brand new vac packs of H-5 low hydrogen rods. No restarts. Heated quiver. All the proper way to do it.

    Tell me Dave, how would I have achieved the same repairs with FCAW? T-8 wires start running at 200 amps, and are not user friendly. On these repairs with the older carbon steel, it made more sense to run lots of small weld beads, repair the crack slowly, and achieve a degree of PWHT to each previous run. You couldn't run a T-8 or T-11 wire like that. I would have had to double the power supply, and deal with bulky wire running equipment, also.
    Or, I could have used a T-1 wire, but it would have been brittle and not give the toughness properties that we wanted.
    In this case, not only was 7018 MMA the best choice - it was pretty much the only choice.

    There you go, now I've qualified my statement - there will, in my opinion, ALWAYS be a place for MMA electrodes.

  5. #54
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    Re: E7018 the right way and why

    Nice chart

    Dave

    Quote Originally Posted by Louie1961 View Post
    Which properties, exactly? Lincoln 71M will run at 100 amps (give or take) and has properties that, on paper, seem to exceed the mechanical properties of their Excalibur 7018

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  7. #55
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    Re: E7018 the right way and why

    Never try a inverter welder.

    Dave

    Quote Originally Posted by Sberry View Post
    IMOP,,, the cheap inverter has made sticks way more practical/convenient than ever. It has allowed real work from 120V.

  8. #56
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    Re: E7018 the right way and why

    Most here know that E6011 is used for first pass then E7018

    In repair work you may need E6013 for large gaps for first pass and then E7018.

    This more fun using fluxcore for large gaps.

    Dave

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    Re: E7018 the right way and why

    Quote Originally Posted by Louie1961 View Post
    Which properties, exactly? Lincoln 71M will run at 100 amps (give or take) and has properties that, on paper, seem to exceed the mechanical properties of their Excalibur 7018

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    Yeah flux core gas shielded is awesome stuff. But you need gas with it. I'm talking direct self shielded flux core that you can use in wind etc similar to 7018
    The low hydrogen H5 and impact tests at - 20 are the properties I'm interested in as much as being easy to run.
    I want a ductile and forgiving weld that works across a huge variety of materials and joints and positions. That is what 7018 is great at.
    Sure a 1.2mm dual shield wire might work too, although maybe not at 100 amps... You can't get the same heat input with wire as you can with mma
    Last edited by Munkul; 11-12-2021 at 03:21 PM.
    Murphy's Golden Rule: Whoever has the gold, makes the rules.

  10. #58
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    Re: E7018 the right way and why

    Dave, I give up, quoting tensile stress means very little. I'm out.
    Murphy's Golden Rule: Whoever has the gold, makes the rules.

  11. #59
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    Re: E7018 the right way and why

    E71T-1 does NOT have the same properties as 7018!
    Munkul, I am guessing this was a typo then because E71T-1 is gas shielded flux core. Maybe you meant E71T-11?
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  13. #60
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    Re: E7018 the right way and why

    E71T-1 is a little stronger than E7018 and E71T-11 but it needs CO2

    Dave

    Quote Originally Posted by Louie1961 View Post
    Munkul, I am guessing this was a typo then because E71T-1 is gas shielded flux core. Maybe you meant E71T-11?

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    Re: E7018 the right way and why

    Quote Originally Posted by Louie1961 View Post
    Munkul, I am guessing this was a typo then because E71T-1 is gas shielded flux core. Maybe you meant E71T-11?
    apologies, you are correct, I was mixing up 11 and 1 all along

    So yeah I didn't mean to compare T-1 wire to 7018, only T-8 and T-11.

    T-11 self shield wire has no impact properties and it's not ductile. It's great for fencing and non critical stuff, but not for structural or lifting equipment.

    T-8 gives similar properties to 7018, but is hard to run nicely and needs lots of power, wires start at 1.6mm and amps start around 200. You'd use it on big construction sites, but not for small repair work.

    There is one other self shield wire I was thinking of but maybe I'm getting muddled up, looking at the AWS designations I can't even remember which number it was I was thinking of. I'll stop here.
    Last edited by Munkul; 11-13-2021 at 04:42 AM.
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    Re: E7018 the right way and why

    Quote Originally Posted by smithdoor View Post
    Most here know that E6011 is used for first pass then E7018

    In repair work you may need E6013 for large gaps for first pass and then E7018.

    This more fun using fluxcore for large gaps.

    Dave
    We don't use 6010/6011 over here barely at all. You can't even buy the stuff over the counter, they are special order only.

    On smaller pipe jobs mostly TIG roots. On big jobs, automatic orbital TIG or special pulse MIG programs for rooting.
    Murphy's Golden Rule: Whoever has the gold, makes the rules.

  16. #63
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    Re: E7018 the right way and why

    It mainly for any doing stick welding.
    For any using stick can run into large gaps. When I was in field I found E6013 was great for filling large gaps and holes.

    There is a difference in types of welding. The type I did it is number pounds per hour of weld (quoted type welding)
    TIG , pulse MIG and torch is a great for thing gauge type welding but slower.

    Even stick welding is slower than fluxcore welding.

    Dave

    Quote Originally Posted by Munkul View Post
    We don't use 6010/6011 over here barely at all. You can't even buy the stuff over the counter, they are special order only.

    On smaller pipe jobs mostly TIG roots. On big jobs, automatic orbital TIG or special pulse MIG programs for rooting.

  17. #64
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    Re: E7018 the right way and why

    When started most shops in my city used E6013 and E6011later add E7018

    I found going in field I care
    E6011 high pen
    E7018 med pen this was used most of time.
    E6013 low pen

    Dave

    Quote Originally Posted by Munkul View Post
    We don't use 6010/6011 over here barely at all. You can't even buy the stuff over the counter, they are special order only.

    On smaller pipe jobs mostly TIG roots. On big jobs, automatic orbital TIG or special pulse MIG programs for rooting.

  18. #65
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    Re: E7018 the right way and why

    I used 13 when I was a sprout due to AC, then I was a bit more pretentious about it all and wanted big ole shiny lohy beads. When I started working Iron it was all 10 and 18 so I had to have DC. I gave most of the 13 away, I did use 18AC a while but it isnt as good vertical as DC
    I use 11 now and 18, havnt used a 13 in 30+ years and the penetration of 18 is similar. I got nothing against the way guys do it, all or mostly all general purpose and as long as it has adequate weld with decent design most of it works.
    Last edited by Sberry; 11-13-2021 at 07:27 PM.

  19. #66
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    Re: E7018 the right way and why

    I knew a guy or 2 never used anything but 7014, they couldnt really even run much else but they did ok with that and it didnt leak and it didnt break.

  20. #67
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    Re: E7018 the right way and why

    How lucky just one rod.

    Dave

    Quote Originally Posted by Sberry View Post
    I knew a guy or 2 never used anything but 7014, they couldnt really even run much else but they did ok with that and it didnt leak and it didnt break.

  21. #68
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    Re: E7018 the right way and why

    Guy said i made him a believer though in 11, simple seal welding sheet. Lots of 12 thru about 10ga and a little lighter sometimes.

  22. #69
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    Re: E7018 the right way and why

    I can make do but need a few tools but this guy could do absolutely anything with absolutely nothing. Start in the morning and buy a buzzer for 75$ with a handful of 7014 and 50 ft of 10 cable could be bugged on to power somewhere and he was in business.

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    Re: E7018 the right way and why

    I welded upto 10 guage with 6013 and E71-1. Today I would use E71-11

    Dave

    Quote Originally Posted by Sberry View Post
    Guy said i made him a believer though in 11, simple seal welding sheet. Lots of 12 thru about 10ga and a little lighter sometimes.

  24. #71
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    Re: E7018 the right way and why

    Comparing E71-T11 to 7018 (in any condition included saturated in water) can not be technically feasible. E71-T11 is only slightly better than E71-TGS. I refer to the GS as generally $hitty. It doesn't have to meet any AWS requirements. E71-T11 does BUT having used the original Lincoln Innershield the spec. sheet required something like 28 passes for a 3/4" thick coupon to meet the spec. Lincoln has since limited the max. thickness for this Innershield. You have to totally understand all the parameters that make a consumable the right one for the specific job. 7018 is the go to stick rod for things you want to be strong. Obviously the more critical the more you need to look into pre heating, rod ovens etc. 7018 basically dry out of the box is still the strongest of the mild steel electrodes and has been used successfully for millions of high strength repairs. If you showed up with E71-T11 to weld on a heavy equipment repair and the person in charge knew anything, they'd send you home.

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  26. #72
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    Re: E7018 the right way and why

    I could do both E7018 and E71T-11
    So if customer want E7018 no problem 😊.

    In metal building you can use either E71-T11 or E7018

    Dave

    PS Most customers that need welding on heavy equipment repair wear I live likes flux core.

    Quote Originally Posted by Welder Dave View Post
    Comparing E71-T11 to 7018 (in any condition included saturated in water) can not be technically feasible. E71-T11 is only slightly better than E71-TGS. I refer to the GS as generally $hitty. It doesn't have to meet any AWS requirements. E71-T11 does BUT having used the original Lincoln Innershield the spec. sheet required something like 28 passes for a 3/4" thick coupon to meet the spec. Lincoln has since limited the max. thickness for this Innershield. You have to totally understand all the parameters that make a consumable the right one for the specific job. 7018 is the go to stick rod for things you want to be strong. Obviously the more critical the more you need to look into pre heating, rod ovens etc. 7018 basically dry out of the box is still the strongest of the mild steel electrodes and has been used successfully for millions of high strength repairs. If you showed up with E71-T11 to weld on a heavy equipment repair and the person in charge knew anything, they'd send you home.
    Last edited by smithdoor; 11-23-2021 at 09:58 PM.

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    Re: E7018 the right way and why

    Quote Originally Posted by smithdoor View Post
    I could do both E7018 and E71T-11
    So if customer want E7018 no problem ��.

    In metal building you can use either E71-T11 or E7018

    Dave

    PS Most customers that need welding on heavy equipment repair wear I live likes flux core.
    What does that mean? You are confusing the issue on purpose.

    71t-11 for structural steel - fine for some codes, as well you know.

    71t-11 for heavy equipment repair - like Welder Dave says, anyone who knows anything about welding metallurgy knows it's a mistake. T-8 wires or dualshield wires are a far better idea.
    "Most customers that need welding on heavy equipment repair wear I live likes flux core." Are you saying they use 71t-11 specifically, or just "flux core" because you don't know the answer?
    Murphy's Golden Rule: Whoever has the gold, makes the rules.

  28. #74
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    Re: E7018 the right way and why

    Wires like NR211 really shouldn't be used for anything but thin gauge, non critical stuff. I mostly use it for lighter gauge cattle equipment.

    I've looked, a time or two, for a good self shielded wire I could run that has a good Charpy rating, but IIRC, none I could find would run on my little 250amp engine drive. The diameters are all too big for what power I have. So I just stick to 7018 ("stick")

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    Re: E7018 the right way and why

    Quote Originally Posted by farmersammm View Post
    Wires like NR211 really shouldn't be used for anything but thin gauge, non critical stuff. I mostly use it for lighter gauge cattle equipment.

    I've looked, a time or two, for a good self shielded wire I could run that has a good Charpy rating, but IIRC, none I could find would run on my little 250amp engine drive. The diameters are all too big for what power I have. So I just stick to 7018 ("stick")
    I'm pretty limited in knowledge of self shielded. 250 amps is not enough for a .035 self shielded wire?
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