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Thread: E7018 the right way and why

  1. #76
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    Re: E7018 the right way and why

    Most of my welding was E7018 and E71T-1 + CO2.
    Even 11018-D2 for 1060 steel.


    You do need to know spec or the type of steel you welding to pick the right stick or wire.

    Dave

    Quote Originally Posted by Munkul View Post
    What does that mean? You are confusing the issue on purpose.

    71t-11 for structural steel - fine for some codes, as well you know.

    71t-11 for heavy equipment repair - like Welder Dave says, anyone who knows anything about welding metallurgy knows it's a mistake. T-8 wires or dualshield wires are a far better idea.
    "Most customers that need welding on heavy equipment repair wear I live likes flux core." Are you saying they use 71t-11 specifically, or just "flux core" because you don't know the answer?

  2. #77
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    Re: E7018 the right way and why

    Quote Originally Posted by Willie B View Post
    I'm pretty limited in knowledge of self shielded. 250 amps is not enough for a .035 self shielded wire?
    250 amps would obliterate .035 wire. Thing is .035 wire doesn't meet structural code. You have to get into .068 or larger wire to meet those codes.

  3. #78
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    Re: E7018 the right way and why

    I have never seen any spec that gave size.

    I seen spec {E70XX or greater} ,{no solid wire} or {must conform to AWS}

    Can you post this specification?

    Dave

    Quote Originally Posted by M J D View Post
    250 amps would obliterate .035 wire. Thing is .035 wire doesn't meet structural code. You have to get into .068 or larger wire to meet those codes.
    Last edited by smithdoor; 11-24-2021 at 10:57 AM.

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    Re: E7018 the right way and why

    Quote Originally Posted by smithdoor View Post
    Most of my welding was E7018 and E71T-1 + CO2.
    Even 11018-D2 for 1060 steel.

    Dave
    Right. So either you're dodging the question, or you're saying that you didn't in fact, use any T-11 in heavy plant repair.

    T-1 is one of those dualshield wires i was talking about
    Murphy's Golden Rule: Whoever has the gold, makes the rules.

  5. #80
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    Re: E7018 the right way and why

    Very little A213 Grade steel.
    I typically do not use name brand names.

    Dave

    Quote Originally Posted by Munkul View Post
    Right. So either you're dodging the question, or you're saying that you didn't in fact, use any T-11 in heavy plant repair.

    T-1 is one of those dualshield wires i was talking about

  6. #81
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    Re: E7018 the right way and why

    Quote Originally Posted by M J D View Post
    250 amps would obliterate .035 wire. Thing is .035 wire doesn't meet structural code. You have to get into .068 or larger wire to meet those codes.
    I was responding to Sammm's comment his Ranger wasn't powerful enough to run flux core. I see 115 volt Chinese welders running flux core, I'd sure think 250 was plenty.

    I was not taking sides, on the discussion of flux core meeting codes. I'm pretty limited on my flux core experience, but have dabbled in Dual Shield with mixed results. When it works it's wonderful.
    An optimist is usually wrong, and when the unexpected happens is unprepared. A pessimist is usually right, when wrong, is delighted, and well prepared.

  7. #82
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    Re: E7018 the right way and why

    Quote Originally Posted by Willie B View Post
    I was responding to Sammm's comment his Ranger wasn't powerful enough to run flux core. I see 115 volt Chinese welders running flux core, I'd sure think 250 was plenty.

    I was not taking sides, on the discussion of flux core meeting codes. I'm pretty limited on my flux core experience, but have dabbled in Dual Shield with mixed results. When it works it's wonderful.
    I should have explained further.

    I was looking for a self shielding wire that would have the same properties as 7018, but they all come in sizes that require more amps to run than the GXT will crank out. None of them come in .035-.045 diameters.

    Something like NR305 takes about 300amps to run in the smallest size available (3/32). It makes a guy sorta feel inadequate

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  9. #83
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    Re: E7018 the right way and why

    There's one wire that's right on the edge, but I can't recall what it is. Close enough to run in maybe .068, but no fudge factor.

  10. #84
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    Re: E7018 the right way and why

    https://www.lincolnelectric.com/fr-f...signators.aspx

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    This is the general idea of what the smaller wires are used for :

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    Lots of limitations on thickness number of passes, and if CEP were here he would also comment on seismic rating.

    Most of the self shielded wires besides the T11, and GS materials (NR-211,NR-212 ,Fabshield-21b) are only available in 30lb or larger spools/barrels, and with 1/16" minimum dia.

    Most commonly used ones are NR-232/233, and NR-203 that I've seen used. Looking at the NR232 procedure shows that .068" wire dia. starts at about 19 volts and 195 amps. With a 250 amp engine driven welder, it would be at the top of its ability. It would probably need a dedicated gun if you were to use it often(LN-25?), but not outside the realm of possibility.

    I think it comes down to this choice for me :

    A) Buy a new gun and a 15 kg spool (NR-232 or equivilant T-8 wire in .068" dia. )

    B) Buy a 10lb can of fresh E7018 1/8" electrodes

    My engine driven welder is only 200 amps DC and I don't have a feeder, so its (A) for me.

    There are times in the past that I have piled on some NR-212, or FabShield in a pinch when it should have been the above mentioned materials, and most times it will last long enough to complete a job (of course a little gusset, plate or support angle always. helps) Most mainitenance guys are guilty of this, some are better than others. That's why they invented O/A torches, and arc gouging equipment isn't it ?

    This is just for Self shielded wire.

    T-1 is a much different story. It only requires a 10lb spool of .035" wire, and 5lb cylinder of CO2, and my HD mig gun.
    Airco 250 ac/dc Heliwelder Square wave
    Miller Synchrowave 180 sd
    Miller Econo Twin HF
    Lincoln 210 MP
    Dayton 225 ac/dc
    Victor torches
    Snap-On YA-212
    Lotos Cut60D
    Primeweld 225 ac/dc
    Primeweld mig180
    Miller AEAD-200

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  12. #85
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    Re: E7018 the right way and why

    These are the the Big Job wires for the Bridge, and building guys.


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    If you doing big work like this.

    Airco 250 ac/dc Heliwelder Square wave
    Miller Synchrowave 180 sd
    Miller Econo Twin HF
    Lincoln 210 MP
    Dayton 225 ac/dc
    Victor torches
    Snap-On YA-212
    Lotos Cut60D
    Primeweld 225 ac/dc
    Primeweld mig180
    Miller AEAD-200

  13. #86
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    Re: E7018 the right way and why

    If a guy is a good lo hy welder the 203 makes you feel like a super frickin hero. The control is fantastic, the rod doesnt get hot and dont have to stop in some inconvenient spot to change rods.

  14. #87
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    Re: E7018 the right way and why

    I was working for Bridge and they had 600A machines. After that I went back to the local hall to do some test and they had 300A machines. They thought the plates were beautiful but I was really looking for more heat. I had been using big machines and simply got used to it.

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    Re: E7018 the right way and why

    For the hobbyist the cost of NR203 or other wire with low temp. impact properties comes into play. Low temp. impact requirements is generally the easiest way to tell which consumables are designed for the highest strength and/or closest to 7018 in a wire. E71-T11 is more equivalent to maybe 7014. The TGS is more like 6013 which is only good for sheet metal. When you add gas shielded flux-core wires into the mix you are just stirring the pot because they are many more options for many more types of steel. It gets a little monotonous to have to keep explaining that tensile strength is usually the least important factor in determining a filler metal.

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  17. #89
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    Re: E7018 the right way and why

    Ok...here is my 2 cents. I just spent 14 hours bulldoggin down a basket plate inside an excavator bucket, the plate was 3/4 inch Cruesabro 8000, very very hard stuff, so it dont bend easy at all. 7 bottles of propane and 14 hours later I got the center down tight (they didnt roll it tight enough, not my fault they made their template). I guarantee you will not hold that plate down with t-11 self shielded wire no matter how much you preheat it, how hot you run it, bevel it or any other trick you can think of... Nr 233 or 232or 7018 will hold it. If you wanna use t-11 wire for this you might as well burn a a bunch of 6011 rods and see how that works for ya...wear your earplugs and stay out of the line of fire and watch the excitement

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  19. #90
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    Re: E7018 the right way and why

    I am not a 6013 guy but its a general purpose rod. Same for 14. Its mechanical properties are not quite as good as lo hy but lots of the worlds work is done with it. I remember being a pretentious pup and ask an eld timer why not 18 as he was a 6010 guy. He was beyond giving a crap about impressing someone but said simply, i can weld miles without a leak,,,, ha

  20. #91
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    Re: E7018 the right way and why

    Quote Originally Posted by old miner called Pop View Post
    Ok...here is my 2 cents. I just spent 14 hours bulldoggin down a basket plate inside an excavator bucket, the plate was 3/4 inch Cruesabro 8000, very very hard stuff, so it dont bend easy at all. 7 bottles of propane and 14 hours later I got the center down tight (they didnt roll it tight enough, not my fault they made their template). I guarantee you will not hold that plate down with t-11 self shielded wire no matter how much you preheat it, how hot you run it, bevel it or any other trick you can think of... Nr 233 or 232or 7018 will hold it. If you wanna use t-11 wire for this you might as well burn a a bunch of 6011 rods and see how that works for ya...wear your earplugs and stay out of the line of fire and watch the excitement
    Exactly. When fitting up and tacking, nothing holds like 7018. T-11 is better suited for scabbing mufflers on shltbox cars than any real welding.

  21. #92
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    Re: E7018 the right way and why

    There a steel call T11
    The T11 is a only part of number
    Is steel or welding wire E71-T11 or NR211 or A213.

    https://www.steel-grades.com/metals/25/4525/-T11.html

    Dave

    Quote Originally Posted by old miner called Pop View Post
    Ok...here is my 2 cents. I just spent 14 hours bulldoggin down a basket plate inside an excavator bucket, the plate was 3/4 inch Cruesabro 8000, very very hard stuff, so it dont bend easy at all. 7 bottles of propane and 14 hours later I got the center down tight (they didnt roll it tight enough, not my fault they made their template). I guarantee you will not hold that plate down with t-11 self shielded wire no matter how much you preheat it, how hot you run it, bevel it or any other trick you can think of... Nr 233 or 232or 7018 will hold it. If you wanna use t-11 wire for this you might as well burn a a bunch of 6011 rods and see how that works for ya...wear your earplugs and stay out of the line of fire and watch the excitement

  22. #93
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    Re: E7018 the right way and why

    Quote Originally Posted by Welder Dave View Post
    For the hobbyist the cost of NR203 or other wire with low temp. impact properties comes into play. Low temp. impact requirements is generally the easiest way to tell which consumables are designed for the highest strength and/or closest to 7018 in a wire. E71-T11 is more equivalent to maybe 7014. The TGS is more like 6013 which is only good for sheet metal. When you add gas shielded flux-core wires into the mix you are just stirring the pot because they are many more options for many more types of steel. It gets a little monotonous to have to keep explaining that tensile strength is usually the least important factor in determining a filler metal.
    And, to add more confusion.................there's times when you want a mismatch. Tensile lower than the parent metal.

  23. #94
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    Re: E7018 the right way and why

    Quote Originally Posted by M J D View Post
    Exactly. When fitting up and tacking, nothing holds like 7018. T-11 is better suited for scabbing mufflers on shltbox cars than any real welding.
    yup T11 wire got its uses but structural steel and heavy stuff aint one of them, even on the box itself it will tell you its not made for thick applications.

    Even if that plate I was workin had been rolled proper that NR 211 wire wont hold it once thge bucket is put to use.

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    Re: E7018 the right way and why

    Both per AWS is about the same strength.
    E71T-11 or E7018. But 7014, E7024 , E7016, E70S-3, E70S-6 E71T-GS AND E71T-1 are about same strength too.

    It depends on type of work and cost for the type rod or wire to use.
    Today I like using E71T-11 {in past it was for field work E7018, E6011 and E6013 and shop work E71T-1}

    Dave

    PS you find T-1 & T-11 is also a type of steel .
    I do not use short forms or brand names as in NR211,NR212, T1,T11.

    Quote Originally Posted by M J D View Post
    Exactly. When fitting up and tacking, nothing holds like 7018. T-11 is better suited for scabbing mufflers on shltbox cars than any real welding.
    Last edited by smithdoor; 11-25-2021 at 10:46 AM.

  26. #96
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    Re: E7018 the right way and why

    Quote Originally Posted by smithdoor View Post
    Both per AWS is about the same strength.
    E71T-11 or E7018. But 7014, E7024 , E7016, E70S-3, E70S-6 E71T-GS AND E71T-1 are about same strength too.

    It depends on type of work and cost for the type rod or wire to use.
    Today I like using E71T-11 {in past it was for field work E7018, E6011 and E6013 and shop work E71T-1}

    Dave

    PS you find T-1 & T-11 is also a type of steel .
    I do not use short forms or brand names as in NR211,NR212, T1,T11.

    Ok...Then I guess what Im tryin to tell you is that E71T-11 is not made for structural steel work and I know for sure that it wont work for the work Im doin evry day

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  28. #97
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    Re: E7018 the right way and why

    It is rated for structural steel upto 3/4"
    I only started using E71T-11 in 2018 I like wire as clean weld and easy slag removal.

    Before 2018 I used E71T-1 and E7018 sometimes E6013 and E6011.

    Dave

    Quote Originally Posted by old miner called Pop View Post
    Ok...Then I guess what Im tryin to tell you is that E71T-11 is not made for structural steel work and I know for sure that it wont work for the work Im doin evry day

  29. #98
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    Re: E7018 the right way and why

    You can't determine the right wire/rod for the job strictly by the tensile strength rating of it, there are many more factors that must be considered. Some have limitations o single pass or thickness of metal to be welded or are not very ductile, may or many not be rated for seismic use. Just way more to picking the correct electrode then the tensile rating of it.
    Mike

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  31. #99
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    Re: E7018 the right way and why

    I think we're all going around in circles here. Smithdoor won't be told.
    Murphy's Golden Rule: Whoever has the gold, makes the rules.

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    Re: E7018 the right way and why

    Quote Originally Posted by Munkul View Post
    I think we're all going around in circles here. Smithdoor won't be told.
    I knida sorta agree with you there. I dont know what the welding codes call for with structural steel, but evry job I was on welding stuctural stuff, moments column slices, gussets and so on we either used 7018, dual shield wire with 75-25, or self shielded wire and that was NR232, now maybe thats a welding code or maybe its just what the customers engineers wanted. I used the NR 232 in a few shipyards as well. The NR 233 is a bit less moneywise a pound and I guess thats why Joe gets the stuff for me to use. Im the only guy there that uses it, and probly the only guy in Schuylkill County that uses it, the folks he gets it from tell me that Joe is the only guy they deliver it to. I know its got that seismic rating or classification or whatever and believe me these operators do just as much to these buckets as what an earthquake in San Francisco will do to a building or a bridge. Old Owen used to say this stuff is the ultimate welding test and I believe him
    Last edited by old miner called Pop; 11-25-2021 at 12:57 PM.

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