What happens to E71T-11 gasless wire if run with C25

[ttoks]

On the job I'm on we've given a procedure to run .045 E71T-1M dual shield, but the wire supplied is .035 E71T-11 self shield, the question has been raised about the wire being wrong and gas not being needed and we've just been told to use the wire that's been supplied and weld it with gas.

So what happens to -11 self shield if you run it with C25?

[Louie1961]

I read somewhere that using shielding gas with E71T-11 actually degrades the chemistry of the weld metal or makes it more brittle, or something like that. But for the life of me, I can't find that link in my bookmarks. So don't take this as gospel.

[Munkul]

I can tell you one thing for sure:
The weld properties will not be the same as they would be if used the way the manufacturer recommended.

[smithdoor]

It is any one's guess.
I have seen a few times data on E71-1 using different gas.
This one I used for 30 years with CO2.

Today I use E71-11 no gas it works great.
If I had C25 I would try it out on E71-11

Dave

On the job I'm on we've given a procedure to run .045 E71T-1M dual shield, but the wire supplied is .035 E71T-11 self shield, the question has been raised about the wire being wrong and gas not being needed and we've just been told to use the wire that's been supplied and weld it with gas.

So what happens to -11 self shield if you run it with C25?

[albrightree]

It was a thread from long ago, but the data sheet for the lincoln, or hobart states NOT TO USE SHIELDING GAS, something about preventing the flux from having enough Oxygen to work properly.

Here's a Hyundai data sheet for Super 11 , take note of page 2 : http://www.hyundaiwelding.com/data/f...hield%2011.pdf

Here's what Lincoln has to say about it : https://www.lincolnelectric.com/en/W...W-S-Electrodes


Cheers

[smithdoor]

Thank you
Great data on E71T-11

Dave

It was a thread from long ago, but the data sheet for the lincoln, or hobart states NOT TO USE SHIELDING GAS, something about preventing the flux from having enough Oxygen to work properly.

Here's a Hyundai data sheet for Super 11 , take note of page 2 : http://www.hyundaiwelding.com/data/f...hield%2011.pdf

Here's what Lincoln has to say about it : https://www.lincolnelectric.com/en/W...W-S-Electrodes


Cheers

[tapwelder]

I did it many years ago as an experiment. Cannot recall the actual results. Not impressive in eliminating cleanup as that was my goal.

[smithdoor]

Back to old saying
{What not broken do not fix}

Dave

I did it many years ago as an experiment. Cannot recall the actual results. Not impressive in eliminating cleanup as that was my goal.

[ttoks]

It was a thread from long ago, but the data sheet for the lincoln, or hobart states NOT TO USE SHIELDING GAS, something about preventing the flux from having enough Oxygen to work properly.

Here's a Hyundai data sheet for Super 11 , take note of page 2 : http://www.hyundaiwelding.com/data/f...hield%2011.pdf

Here's what Lincoln has to say about it : https://www.lincolnelectric.com/en/W...W-S-Electrodes


Cheers

interesting, I'd also read somewhere that using shield gas resulted in far more aluminium in the weld than is acceptable, thanks for both link's, especially the hyundai one as that is the specific wire we are using.

[albrightree]

I think the Oxygen reacts with the aluminum for a cleaning action, without the oxygen the aluminum doesn't burn off. Pretty sure that's why there is so much white smoke and white soot, from the aluminum . I try to keep my head out of the smoke, but it still clouds up my faceshield , and turns my gun white. Its hardly noticeable on my pink 3m filters for my respirator, but shows up greyish on my white 3m facemasks(disposable).

It may also be a factor in whether a wire is multi-pass or not.

I just guessed you might be using Hyundai or Kobelco over there.

Be Safe

[ttoks]

I think the Oxygen reacts with the aluminum for a cleaning action, without the oxygen the aluminum doesn't burn off. Pretty sure that's why there is so much white smoke and white soot, from the aluminum . I try to keep my head out of the smoke, but it still clouds up my faceshield , and turns my gun white. Its hardly noticeable on my pink 3m filters for my respirator, but shows up greyish on my white 3m facemasks(disposable).

It may also be a factor in whether a wire is multi-pass or not.

I just guessed you might be using Hyundai or Kobelco over there.

Be Safe

Yeah that's how I understood it, the flux has alot of deoxidisers (including aluminium) to deal with the oxygen in the air, and if there's no oxygen for it to bind to and make aluminium oxide (plus silicone, titanium and whatever else they use) it ends up in the weld making it brittle.

Having run it with gas now I'll tell you that there's a hell of a lot less smoke running gasless wire with gas, which im guessing is the lack of oxides forming, no white crud at all, comes back with the gas off.

We're actually using Hyundai and of all things Blue Demon which surprised me, seeing as I had so much trouble trying to source Blue Demon consumables about 6 months ago here in upside down land.

I tend to just use ESAB (re branded as CIG here) that's available everywhere including big box stores.

[albrightree]

I've used blue demon MIG, and TIG wires, tungstens, and welding rods without any problems. They're just a re-seller , not a manufacturer , that became popular in the 1990's because they were one of the few companies that offered specialty welding products in smaller reels, and boxes. All their stuff has AWS certs for the standard materials, they also sell some specialty stuff with no ratings for bolt removal, gouging etc. . Strange enough, they list a distributor in Guam, not sure what they are, listed as furniture, and building supplies.


Certs :
https://weldingmaterialsales.com/cert/10313/




Guam distributor :
https://weldingmaterialsales.com/dea...ericana-group/

Best Regards

[Welder Dave]

It's self-shielded wire for a reason(s).

[smithdoor]

I agree

I just remember when first started welding flux core did try E70-3 with CO2 it did change mush. I only try it one time to see what would do.

Dave

It's self-shielded wire for a reason(s).