Generator for stick welding

[Sberry]

How do these cheap machines compare to the Maxstar? Mine is older and just after they come MVP. if that makes any difference.

[BaTu]

I've come to think that, when using a generator, there's a difference between an Inverter and Transformers welders needs. I too have that Champion 7 / 8.2K Inverter Generator because so much of todays electronics just don't like the Square Wave non-inverter Generators produce and an I suspect that Inverter Welders work better when paired with Inverter Generators because they produce that "cleaner" sine & voltage.

A generators suitability for a welder might have a lot to do with which kind of welder you want to use it with...

[Oscar]

... I suspect that Inverter Welders work better when paired with Inverter Generators because they produce that "cleaner" sine & voltage.
.

Correct, but it's not just inverter-based welders that work better....all electronics work better with an inverter based generator if one is working under the assumption that the inverter produces enough clean-power under load.

[Brand X]

How do these cheap machines compare to the Maxstar? Mine is older and just after they come MVP. if that makes any difference.

Cary,
I used all the Thermal-arc of that time frame, dynasty/etc, but never the Maxstar I suspect the major difference is the Input amps to output is a bit better on the Miller. Until you get into the better quality/ higher cost units, that will not change.The Blue Demon on Amazon is a absolute steal at $69.00 It's built at the same factory as the klutch machines, but the Lift-arc is real, and better.. 92/93 amps output measured so good for 3/32 Nice arc starts with 7018/etc..These are not the same as the lowest tier stuff..

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00S4JTZG4...v_ov_lig_dp_it

[andremajic]

Has anyone ever considered buying a second generator and running them in parallel? It seems to be a good idea if you own an inverter style. https://www.generatorhero.com/parall...tors-together/

I have 2 smaller 5500w gas powered generators that I bought for power for the house, but they are different brands, so I wouldn't mix and match.

Andy

[Oscar]

Has anyone ever considered buying a second generator and running them in parallel? It seems to be a good idea if you own an inverter style. https://www.generatorhero.com/parall...tors-together/

I have 2 smaller 5500w gas powered generators that I bought for power for the house, but they are different brands, so I wouldn't mix and match.

Andy

It's much more cost-effective to just buy a larger single generator. You get more watts/dollar.

[andremajic]

It's much more cost-effective to just buy a larger single generator. You get more watts/dollar.

The way I look at is that I already paid for a smaller generator, so cost is lower. Also, it's easier to move 2 smaller generators than a large generator. Might be a liability with the ease of movement if you have a lot of crack/meth heads in your area.

But that's just me.

Another option is to make a 110v adapter with heavy duty extension cords that take the hot end of 2 different 110v circuits and combine them in a 240v plug so you can just plug in your welder to your customer/buddy's power outlets. This would only work if you're remotely close to a couple outlets. Wouldn't work for field/farm use.


Just some ideas to help save some hard earned cash!

Andy

[Sberry]

The new machines can do a lot with 120. If you are close enough to power to come up with a cobbled scheme of trying to use outlets from different circuits you can come up with 240 I done crap likw cobble from customer wiring before when I was a kid and its not good. Using 120 outlet is plug in and acceptable.
The good news is,,, the modern machines d not need much,,, at your buddies can use a simple smaller cable and install the correct circuit at minimal expense which beats cords and adapters. Install is as easy andsimp;e circuit as you can ever do and the right way to save some hard earned cash.

[Sberry]

We tend to think of puters and hi tech as real modern but the cost of usable tools has tanked to disposable pricing and really not worth carrying insurance on,,, ha. What was the entry price of a buzzer in 1960, then 70 then 80 and was 300 not too long ago. Yes it may work 25 yrs from now etc but it weighs a lot, needs 50A service to run a 1/8 electrode. Now we got a 14 # machine runs 30A circuit from a 12 cord, some places to 200 ft on 240, gives local control, can replace it with one with new features 5 years from now, DC professional arc, sub 200$ DVI too which is handy as a zipper.

[Sberry]

Sears hand tools were more $ in 1980 than toady by several times if you buy sets. My spt was 650 in 92. I bought an AC/DC buzzer in 83 maybe, seems it was pushing 400 then. Sure, its disposable today but cost 1/2 as much in todays dollars and has better features.

[Sberry]

I have had 2 long occasions I can recall andone could have been improved a bit. The other eliminated if it was important but I carry 2basic cords on the van. 50 ft of 12 and a 25 or 2 of 16. My last stick job had an outlet at the service and I ran cord to work on level ground and 10 rods over an hour or so. Didnt require 25 ft of 10, in fact had a wire a size larger than the machine needed at that distance. Could have thrown 10x the cash at it and not work better.
Over the years should have had mag drill, its just something besides an Ironworker I should have got and didnt. But was looking and its really worth consideration of a 250 generic import they rebadge all over the place. They make 10X of these for every proprietary bastard.
I made it this long without it, doubt I will wear one out.

[Sberry]

Cary,
I used all the Thermal-arc of that time frame, dynasty/etc, but never the Maxstar I suspect the major difference is the Input amps to output is a bit better on the Miller. Until you get into the better quality/ higher cost units, that will not change.The Blue Demon on Amazon is a absolute steal at $69.00 It's built at the same factory as the klutch machines, but the Lift-arc is real, and better.. 92/93 amps output measured so good for 3/32 Nice arc starts with 7018/etc..These are not the same as the lowest tier stuff..

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00S4JTZG4...v_ov_lig_dp_it

Yes, 92 and 93 are the real numbers. The Max never trips a breaker up to 100 ft of wire, I tried another machine some Forney pos welded ok but tripped up 1/2 way thru a rod and can weld all day with the Max. Newer may be the same only cheaper. ??? I dont know anything about it all. I use the DC buzzer as the shop machine, only time I have ever used 240 on the Max was a test rod. I have the S,,, I dont care about tig but it was 800$ 15 years ago. As little as I use it a sub 200$ machine could probably work for me today.

[Sberry]

I really thought Hobart was late to the game not offering a 120V stick. They kind of tried the Maxstar concept earlier on but didnt seem to get the grip and it ended up costing about the same as a blue and they had to give away the features cheaper etc,,,, not sure exactly but seem to remember some of that. Other things I didnt think much of at the time worked out rather well. I am not good at that hedging and/but those guys catch a loser once in a while too. They win some.

[Sberry]

Good to know about the starts. That little stuff is where these could shine and neat handrail and even small bore pipe, lot of real work done in 3/32. So much where the fabrication is tedious that the welding is minor. Did one a while back, would have saved about 4 or 5 rods in a couple hrs with bigger electrodes, 5 minutes tops and it happened to be in face place and the little rod let a nice cap where it show and needed heavier. Drove a pickup there vs a 20K truck.
BTW,,, I remember you with the TA, the cost was quite a bit lower then but I was really unsure about the 93A without tripping up.

[Sberry]

When I was on the job back in the day I got round. I had some big rod stuff, some in the middle and a couple years in fussy butt where was close and personal with 3/32 7018 and another few yrs off and on with the Linc buzzer which is really good cept for one thing. The step adjustment. Thing is,,, its so super close especially on modern power its not worth a change to me and for general work doesnt mean much. At a nuke even had the helper turn down a fuzz half way thru a rod etc, just a little, couple A.
I am far out of practice, it really does take a little daily driving but I can do 18 like flange guy does 13. Its tedious and lots easier when someone is paying the time to do it that way.

[Sberry]

This might have been a Max test,,, was in there somewhere.

[Brand X]

My TA-160 was about over $1600 new..Little bit more then the maxstar..Jim bought that one from me..That was different then the base 85S machines or the china 95s I have now,,The 95s can be a bit funky in arc starts with the genny, and 7018. Not sure if it was the rod or what? Switched to some 309 just to get it done.. Those always strike easy, and re-strike . I need to run it more to see what is up. The newest cheaper Blue Demon Mig/stick seem to be less finicky on the genny.


All the large China stuff has really shot up in Price . I don't have much. but Tire machine,Balancer, and a mid-rise lift that has doubled in 3 years..Pretty nice quality really.

[Sberry]

I guess I was recalling the China 95s. I remember the 161, that was the comparative to the Dynasty was it not? I remember all that when we were on Hobart.

[Brand X]

The TA-185 was,, The TA 160 was different then the China 161s The 161s would be a good match for your Miller. PFC in that one I sold that to my Marine tech friend, His 95s was just a bit short for his 120 volt needs. I believe the 95s peaks at about 103 amps. Where the 161s will just get him to 1/8 7018 Those machines was in the low $400 on sale maybe high $300 for certain buyers..

The one that got away that I regret was the Thermal Arc 170 Thought I needed more for my well pump, and why I have the MQ -6000 Excellent standard genny, but the Italian Thermal would match my Lincoln 305 G in many respects. One of the best there ever was in small units..

https://www.tzsupplies.com/thermal-a...lder-i6113799/

[Sberry]

Right, 185. So many numbers for so long ago. I came to the forums to look at projects mostly. I didnt think i would have the interest in the equipment so speak and it took me a while to get my mind around this equipment in general. I remember the confusion i felt about new cameras despite quite fair knowledge , etc and i was not sure of the answer to the old quality value, where you get what you pay for deep questions.
So,, i follow your logic and experiments while i lean on my old standby and come to so.e same conclusions. I try to place myself in position of new buyer and now consider value differently . I change my mi d a lot and only reason i dont buy/adopt new is i simply dont need it. Its interesting, chznges my view of a lot of old assumptions might not as true anyway but the quality value curve has changed.

[Sberry]

What i mean by that,, the tool truck guy is a great guy, gave you a hat and 25$ discount on 700$wrench set or let a guy pay 25 a month etc but how is Walmart screwing us bringing a full polish tuff 1/2 socket set for 25$,,, ha.
I mean, ok, i take the Snap if you giving it to me, like back in the day,,, i would do a line if you put it there but i aint buying,,,,, ha. I will take the Walmart today if i got to pay. It would be a different matter if it didnt work.
Finding lots of stuff i like better or as good. Sometimes disposable cost. People use consumables all the time but use a 10$ tool up and its the end of the world or they should have bought a 50$ one. Or more. Or use it once and got to chase the truch down, personally was on with one i found in scrap, i filed it just in case but not gonna sit on another 40 over it.

[Sberry]

I wasted a lot of money over the years, only a little on tools but it has changed value scale a lot in recent history. It moved from the middle of product lines being decent value to a step from the bottom of the ladder being the best value. Lot of talk about grinders, a 10$ hf is junk but at 30$ even retail can get a pretty good tool will earn way back its cost before it shates.
I spent 1000$ on grinders first 20 years with good and 200 over last 20 with econemy 30$ a time znd 20 once on sale, should have got 5 would made it till retirement.

[Sberry]

Would have loved a 69$ welder back in the day. As we just talked about, 95s, 400 or so. Even then i was behind the curve,,, the 400$ machine would have done what i have done with the one i paid 8 for. Should have bought stock with the otber 4.

[CAVEMANN]

What i mean by that,, the tool truck guy is a great guy, gave you a hat and 25$ discount on 700$wrench set or let a guy pay 25 a month etc but how is Walmart screwing us bringing a full polish tuff 1/2 socket set for 25$,,, ha.
I mean, ok, i take the Snap if you giving it to me, like back in the day,,, i would do a line if you put it there but i aint buying,,,,, ha. I will take the Walmart today if i got to pay. It would be a different matter if it didnt work.
Finding lots of stuff i like better or as good. Sometimes disposable cost. People use consumables all the time but use a 10$ tool up and its the end of the world or they should have bought a 50$ one. Or more. Or use it once and got to chase the truch down, personally was on with one i found in scrap, i filed it just in case but not gonna sit on another 40 over it.

Hmm, I bought a set of METRIC 6 point sockets from Walmart in 1999, they were a name brand, Stanley IIRC, or maybe CHALLENGER, anyway the the 21mm split I took it back to Walmart, and because they carried a lifetime replacement gaurantee just like Snap-on, Craftsman & every other tool manufacturer. They wouldn't stand honor the manufacturer's gaurantee, they said to send/take it to a distributor/dealer. Isn't that the role assumed by Walmart when they started selling that brand? I had to buy a socket,12 pt was all I could find, to this day I haven't found a 6 point 21mm socket in a store, not a huge issue as long as you don't have a nut/bolt with damaged corners.
I also got into it witha SEARS store employee on an air ratchet that I purchased an extended warranty for, I was in my uniform & the employee asked if I used the ratchet for work & I said yes, they tried to tell me that the warranty didn't apply to workplace use, I told them that the tool & warranty was sold to me while I was in uniform, they finally conceded & honored the warranty, but refused to sell me a warranty. I've also been told that their LIFETIME REPLACEMENT on hand tools didn't apply to tools used on the job, hell, I used my tools at work for almost 50 years and never had a problem exchanging any of them, I bought the biggest MECHANICS set that SEARS had in 1973 & used the hell out of them, I had a LOT of Snap-on tools but only things I couldn't get in the CRAFTSMAN line. I don'tunderstand how they can market a tool set as a "MECHANICS SET" and refuse to honor the warranty.

[Sberry]

I had a bunch of busted Sears sockets. But here is the deal with that Walmart. They may have limited in store replacement but i believe they sell it with a disclaimer that full warranty is with the mfgr. I am sure if they were more specialized like HF not such a problem or if they were to double the cost they would be glad to have in house but they are selling it discount and they aint the only one to give people a hard time.