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Thread: Non-traditional shielding gases

  1. #26
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    Re: Non-traditional shielding gases

    You can use Oxygen when pulse steel mig welding. There are 2 mixes that people use and its 98/2 and that's either 98/2 CO2 or 98/2 Oxygen.

    The O2 actually works quite a bit better then the CO2.

    That's the only time I have ever seen o2 used.


    I have heard of people using nitrogen, hydrogen, helium, and obvious argon for purge gases, though I only have used argon and helium myself.

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  2. #27
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    Re: Non-traditional shielding gases

    I used about 99% the time I used CO2 with flux core
    Today I use self shielding flux core E71T-11 no gas to buy or loose.

    Dave

    Quote Originally Posted by Country Metals View Post
    You can use Oxygen when pulse steel mig welding. There are 2 mixes that people use and its 98/2 and that's either 98/2 CO2 or 98/2 Oxygen.

    The O2 actually works quite a bit better then the CO2.

    That's the only time I have ever seen o2 used.


    I have heard of people using nitrogen, hydrogen, helium, and obvious argon for purge gases, though I only have used argon and helium myself.

    Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

  3. #28
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    Re: Non-traditional shielding gases

    Quote Originally Posted by Country Metals View Post
    You can use Oxygen when pulse steel mig welding. There are 2 mixes that people use and its 98/2 and that's either 98/2 CO2 or 98/2 Oxygen.

    The O2 actually works quite a bit better then the CO2.

    That's the only time I have ever seen o2 used.


    I have heard of people using nitrogen, hydrogen, helium, and obvious argon for purge gases, though I only have used argon and helium myself.

    Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk
    There's actually more common mixes for pulsed-spray: C10 or C8.

    The downfall of O₂ is that is uses up the deoxidizers in mild steel MIG wire, so the weld bead is left a dull-gray instead of the usual look like when C25 is used.
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  4. #29
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    Re: Non-traditional shielding gases

    Quote Originally Posted by Insaneride View Post
    Why and can you explain it? Is it like He mix?

    Hydrogen boost?

    Edit: it's for Stainless?
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  6. #30
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    Re: Non-traditional shielding gases

    I did not see on Lincoln chart propane
    Waiting for the video of propane shield gas.

    Dave

    Quote Originally Posted by Oscar View Post

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  8. #31
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    Re: Non-traditional shielding gases

    Quote Originally Posted by smithdoor View Post
    I did not see on Lincoln chart propane
    Waiting for the video of propane shield gas.

    Dave
    Propane is not a welding shielding gas, pretty simple.
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  9. #32
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    Re: Non-traditional shielding gases

    Has anyone tried welding in a vacuum? Use a Hvac 2 cycle pump to evacuate all the air out. Interesting stuff happens!

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  10. #33
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    Re: Non-traditional shielding gases

    I know that
    But video would be a great for tic toc and news. Heating propane to 5,000°F and then hitting the air BIG HOT flame.

    Dave

    Quote Originally Posted by Oscar View Post
    Propane is not a welding shielding gas, pretty simple.

  11. #34
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    Re: Non-traditional shielding gases

    NASA has but most metals in a vacuum will weld by self.

    Dave

    Quote Originally Posted by andremajic View Post
    Has anyone tried welding in a vacuum? Use a Hvac 2 cycle pump to evacuate all the air out. Interesting stuff happens!

    Andy

  12. #35
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    Re: Non-traditional shielding gases

    Quote Originally Posted by Oscar View Post

    Thanks Oscar but GMAW is MIG or wire feed. Lt Badd said he uses for TIG. I get that MIG can be used with all kinds of mixes including O2 and CO2 but those gases don't work with TIG. My question was about Hydrogen and TIG. I suspect a small amount like 2% Hydrogen gets snuffed out by the 98% Argon but gives desired weld temps for SS ?

    Also, I think the term mix is being used loosely. Knoble gases do not form a chemical bond with other elements or molecules. You can blend them like mixing oil and water but Knoble or Ion gases do not form bonds because there outer Valence is full. The CO2 molecule is interesting because it has a symmetrical chemical bond but neither gas is Knoble. Theres something about the efficiency of CO2 molecule to release energy but I don't remember the mechanics. Interesting but useless information.

  13. #36
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    Re: Non-traditional shielding gases

    Quote Originally Posted by smithdoor View Post
    I did not see on Lincoln chart propane
    Waiting for the video of propane shield gas.

    Dave

    I get it your joking but we all know that propane is good for heating and cutting only. For shielding a weld use acetalyne. I think with a carburizing flame?

  14. #37
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    Re: Non-traditional shielding gases

    Quote Originally Posted by Insaneride View Post
    Lt Badd said he uses for TIG.
    True, I missed that but none the less, it seems it serves the same purpose based on the Lincoln guide description.
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  15. #38
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    Re: Non-traditional shielding gases

    I perfurter make a joke about a dangerous things and most can see a lot faster as joke

    Dave

    Quote Originally Posted by Insaneride View Post
    I get it your joking but we all know that propane is good for heating and cutting only. For shielding a weld use acetalyne. I think with a carburizing flame?

  16. #39
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    Re: Non-traditional shielding gases

    Knoble?
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    Re: Non-traditional shielding gases

    Quote Originally Posted by Insaneride View Post
    Why and can you explain it? Is it like He mix?

    Hydrogen boost?

    Edit: it's for Stainless?
    I have never used this (AR/H mix) , but have heard of it.

    Short answer , yes it hotter.

    Long answer - Consequently, argon is a gas with high efficiency for shielding around the arc weld. ...
    It has also been found that the addition of hydrogen to argon promotes increased
    welding speed due to hydrogen significantly increasing the volume of molten material
    in the weld pool.

    Even longer answer : science direct article,

    https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...%20weld%20pool.
    Might be a good read with a mug of coffee/tea


    No real need to re invent the wheel on welding gases, what we currently have seems to work very well.
    True, I think most of the newer shielding gases are slight manipulations with smaller amounts of reactive elements , and compounds.
    I don't think the use of Hydrocarbon mixes will be some new revelation, especially if the come from a well, they might have a lot of other compounds in there, even after fractionation.


    @LtBadd - Does this work well on all stainless joints ? Wondering if this is better on thicker sections , or is it good on sheet metal too ?
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  19. #41
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    Re: Non-traditional shielding gases

    Quote Originally Posted by G-ManBart View Post
    Knoble?
    When I went to school they called them inert gases because they wouldn't combine with anything else... I guess the terminology is different given geography and generational differences... and spelling...
    The harder you fall, the higher you bounce...

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  20. #42
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    Re: Non-traditional shielding gases

    I use nitrogen for purging stainless tig welding often.
    Welds come out nice and shiny but with a gold hue to it. One of these days I'll get a hardness test done to see if there's any embrittlement going on. Haven't had any failures yet.

  21. #43
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    Re: Non-traditional shielding gases

    Quote Originally Posted by albrightree View Post


    @LtBadd - Does this work well on all stainless joints ? Wondering if this is better on thicker sections , or is it good on sheet metal too ?
    No need to use for thinner material, although you could increase travel speed a fair amount.

    @ Insaneride

    "The Linde HydroStar® shielding gas blends are primarily used for joining austenitic stainless steels utilizing the Gas Tungsten Arc Welding (GTAW or TIG) process. Hydrogen increases heat input to the base materials while providing a reducing atmosphere to enhance weld cleanliness"

    "A strong arc-voltage drop is produced by higher ionization energy and higher thermal conductivity of hydrogen if compared to argon. Thus this increased power leads to higher penetration of the weld joints. Thus, productivity can be improved by using higher travel speed without compromising to cost and quality. Also as hydrogen is reducing in nature it will lead to clean weld."

    "This Argon – Hydrogen shielding gas mixture is only recommended with Austenitic stainless steel material. As with other materials, defects due to hydrogen may be prevalent. For welding of Austenitic stainless steel material Argon-hydrogen mixture can be seen as best option instead of using Helium as shielding gas"

    The previous shop I worked at we used this a lot on 316 pipe and other stainless weldments
    Richard
    West coast of Florida

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  23. #44
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    Re: Non-traditional shielding gases

    Quote Originally Posted by whtbaron View Post
    I guess the terminology is different given geography and generational differences... and spelling...
    I did a bunch of searches wondering if it's spelled that way in other countries...no luck. It did find that it can be an insult that combines the words "Knob" and "Goblin" and a Middle English term that means "little knob or bump". Neither would seem to make a good shielding gas....pretty sure goblin gas is highly reactive
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  25. #45
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    Re: Non-traditional shielding gases

    Good information here. My next question is why Hydrogen vs Helium? It was answered in Lt Badd's post. Higher thermal conduction leads to higher production.

  26. #46
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    Re: Non-traditional shielding gases

    Quote Originally Posted by whtbaron View Post
    When I went to school they called them inert gases because they wouldn't combine with anything else... I guess the terminology is different given geography and generational differences... and spelling...
    I was spelling noble wrong.

    The noble gasses are inert but not all inert gasses are noble. CO2 can be considered inert.

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  28. #47
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    Re: Non-traditional shielding gases

    It would work.
    But down side is after welding it is blow torch up like a balloon in ww1.

    It is used for a fuel on cutting torches.

    It would give a new name to welding.

    Dave

    FYI In past they have used hydrogen gas in some types of light bulbs before Edison.

    Quote Originally Posted by Insaneride View Post
    Good information here. My next question is why Hydrogen vs Helium? It was answered in Lt Badd's post. Higher thermal conduction leads to higher production.
    Last edited by smithdoor; 11-29-2021 at 11:32 AM.

  29. #48
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    Re: Non-traditional shielding gases

    Quote Originally Posted by smithdoor View Post
    I did not see on Lincoln chart propane
    Waiting for the video of propane shield gas.

    Dave
    Patience my friend...Im sure somebody somewhere will be crazy enough to try it...In my youth it would have been me

  30. #49
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    Re: Non-traditional shielding gases

    I would have too.
    But as got older I was wiser by pain of it all.

    Dave

    Quote Originally Posted by old miner called Pop View Post
    Patience my friend...Im sure somebody somewhere will be crazy enough to try it...In my youth it would have been me

  31. #50
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    Re: Non-traditional shielding gases

    Quote Originally Posted by smithdoor View Post
    I would have too.
    But as got older I was wiser by pain of it all.

    Dave
    My Dad used to warn me about doin dum****...It never ceased to amaze me how he picked up so much wisdom as I got older

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