Cheap welding rods?

[Sberry]

Wire took away so much work from stick it wasnt worth it to keep rods hot.
There is a lot of 3/32 in a 50# box, they go a long way.

[CAVEMANN]

It's a shame, but I've seen our welders throw away more LH70 than you can imagine, they would get a new 50lb can and haul it to their job, only to use a pound or 2 and leave the rest to rot away.

[Oscar]

These are the ones I had seen stupid cheap on Ebay (44lbs for $77 shipped = $1.75/lb). How bad could they be? Let's F'n find out!


Ready to get them nice 'n toasty too!

[smithdoor]

Looks great.

Dave

These are the ones I had seen stupid cheap on Ebay (44lbs for $77 shipped = $1.75/lb). How bad could they be? Let's F'n find out!


Ready to get them nice 'n toasty too!

[G-ManBart]

Read carefully on eBay ads. Shipping on 50 lbs can be high.

I prefer to examine what I'm buying.

How do you examine inside a sealed 50lb tin? They list the price and shipping price clearly so it shouldn't take particularly careful reading.

[smithdoor]

It is Ebay it is always a gamble.

Dave

How do you examine inside a sealed 50lb tin? They list the price and shipping price clearly so it shouldn't take particularly careful reading.

[farmersammm]

Don't really feel that it matters what brand you use, if you're just padding to learn. Get proficient with crappy stuff, and you'll feel like a King when you start to run "better" rods. I'm doing a bit of practicing right now,, and I'm running a few "good" rods, mixed with stuff that's been laying around the house, or shop, for a long time. I don't think it matters. You just need to RUN something.

I wouldn't rush off to the next farm auction, and buy stuff that's been sitting in a barn for 20yrs, but Forney, maybe Blue Demon(it used to be cheap), or Hobart, are perfectly fine for practice.

[whtbaron]

These are the ones I had seen stupid cheap on Ebay (44lbs for $77 shipped = $1.75/lb). How bad could they be? Let's F'n find out!


Ready to get them nice 'n toasty too!

Planning to do any comparisons on cooked v.s. raw? Just curious if the oven will make a big difference...

[bakodiver]

Out here in the third world i have to use whatever the local hardware store stocks, which is usually Forney. It is "ok" but i would never do any coded work with it. I find the 7018 runs better and has no porosity at start if i bake it in a rod oven right from new. I did buy 50 lbs of unbranded chinese 6011 for a ship repair that wasn't even close to 6011 in characteristics. It was more like a 6013 for beginners, ran great on flat even through rust, but useless for any other position. So the lesson is a known brand, even if made in china, will be "ok". Some weird chinese brand or no brand could be anything.

[smithdoor]

You till the different when welding
The cooked has a smother weld

Dave

Planning to do any comparisons on cooked v.s. raw? Just curious if the oven will make a big difference...

[smithdoor]

Try this one some day

First rod soaking in water for weeks and try welding
Next in rod out box that has been opened for few months now welded
The last rod cooked for hours weld right out of the oven

You will see the difference.

Dave

Planning to do any comparisons on cooked v.s. raw? Just curious if the oven will make a big difference...

[Oscar]

Planning to do any comparisons on cooked v.s. raw? Just curious if the oven will make a big difference...

Yea I can do that.

[farmersammm]

I have the small Phoenix portable warmer. The rods do run better, but I'm thinking it's just because they're warm, not any less humidity in them.

Run anything on steel that's preheated, and the rods run just as nice.

It's like when you lay a weld...........after the first inch or so, it starts to run nice and hot. Rod runs smoother as it heats up.

[G-ManBart]

Oh Lord, are we really going to turn yet another thread into oven versus not 7018? How many threads need to be sidetracked by this?

Member CEP here (RIP) covered this beautifully and I don't see anybody refuting his work. The only thing I've noticed is fresh rod starts a bit easier.

https://weldingweb.com/vbb/threads/2...51#post2229751

[Oscar]

Oh Lord, are we really going to turn yet another thread into oven versus not 7018? How many threads need to be sidetracked by this?

Member CEP here (RIP) covered this beautifully and I don't see anybody refuting his work. The only thing I've noticed is fresh rod starts a bit easier.

https://weldingweb.com/vbb/threads/2...51#post2229751

I agree with you. To me it's all the same. I just bought the rod oven because of the same exact reason farmersamm said: warmer/pre-heated steel simply runs nicer. Nothing to do with the whole lo-hy aspect at all.

[TorontoJoe]

I have a mig machine as well and that process is definitely more forgiving.... I'm finding stick much more challenging so I'm hoping that upping my game with an electrode will better me all around.

[TorontoJoe]

It pays to shop around. Hobart 1/8" 6013 is $22.99 for 5lb at TSC, Lincoln is $13.67 at Home Depot. Lincoln 1/8" 7018 is $16.97 for 5lb, $178.50 for 50lb at HD - so buying the larger quantity costs more per pound in that case.

The majority of my fabrication welding is done with Mig, but the versatility of stick shines for repairs - and it's all I had when I started out. I don't burn a huge quantity of rods, but I like a wide selection. Five lbs each of 6011, 6013, and 7018 could give you a lot of experience, for under $50.

I have a mig machine as well and that process is definitely more forgiving.... I'm finding stick much more challenging so I'm hoping that upping my game with an electrode will better me all around.

[TorontoJoe]

Read carefully on eBay ads. Shipping on 50 lbs can be high.

I prefer to examine what I'm buying.

Being in Canada eBay has very little to offer and shipping from the US is huge!

[TorontoJoe]

@whtbaron - I have rod oven envy. I'm almost ashamed to say but this is the reason I don't weld 7018's..... I've been working with nothing but 7014's so far. It seems everyone, everywhere is running the 7018's I wonder what I'm missing out on.

[TorontoJoe]

Oh Lord, are we really going to turn yet another thread into oven versus not 7018? How many threads need to be sidetracked by this?

Member CEP here (RIP) covered this beautifully and I don't see anybody refuting his work. The only thing I've noticed is fresh rod starts a bit easier.

https://weldingweb.com/vbb/threads/2...51#post2229751

Being pretty new this is something I should probably learn more about... I have a bunch of 7018's. When I mentioned to a friend he asked if I have an oven. I said no... He said to go with 7014's then.....

I have a feeling I just opened up a can of worms here?

[whtbaron]

@whtbaron - I have rod oven envy. I'm almost ashamed to say but this is the reason I don't weld 7018's..... I've been working with nothing but 7014's so far. It seems everyone, everywhere is running the 7018's I wonder what I'm missing out on.

I've been fixing farm equipment ( my own, like I said, I'm no pro welder) for over 40 yrs and 90% of that work was with stick, and usually with 6013's (probably the most hated rod on this site) or 7014's. If you had asked me before you started, I would have recommended starting with 7014's to get a feel for it, so I don't see a problem with the direction you're going. Over 40 yrs and I didn't try 7018's until I got on here and these guys all had a boner for them, so I had to find out what the story was as well. I didn't have DC until last July, so most of that was with 7018AC's. Still don't have a rod oven either, but unless you're welding to pro structural specs, is not a big deal. I'm seriously thinking about fitting an old bar fridge with a light bulb for cheap "warmish" storage. As you have already learned, getting the cheap US stuff across the border isn't cost effective. Probably the "better" of the cheap rods will be the ones at Princess Auto... like I said ... they are "ok" for practice runs, but I wouldn't recommend them for your first repair on the Space Shuttle, and I really didn't like the cheapy 7018's on AC.

[G-ManBart]

Being pretty new this is something I should probably learn more about... I have a bunch of 7018's. When I mentioned to a friend he asked if I have an oven. I said no... He said to go with 7014's then.....

I have a feeling I just opened up a can of worms here?

This is one of the most divisive topics you'll ever find on any welding forum. The fear is hydrogen embrittlement. For that to happen you need three things...1) steel which is susceptible (high strength steel), 2) high degree of restraint (thick sections) and 3) a source of hydrogen (in this case moisture in the flux).

The short version is that if you're welding mild steel none of this matters. If you're doing code work where it would matter you would have a procedure in place that needs to be followed to the letter. For hobby welders it simply isn't a factor for what almost anybody is doing.

Fresh/dry/warm rod does start a bit easier and run a bit smoother, but it's not some night and day difference. If the flux is intact you can use it just fine. I have 50lb cans that have been opened for several years and they weld perfectly.

For whatever reason some folks like to grind an axe about this and make it seem like you'll have issues if you use 7018 that hasn't been stored in a heated rod box after either being removed from a fresh tin or having been put through the drying procedure (only one time!). They also tend to always bring up another process and further derail the thread for some reason.

[Meltedmetal]

T-Joe,
Find a way to heat some 7018 for yourself and try it. The discussions on metallurgical/mechanical properties , at this point, are irrelevant to what you are doing. Like others in Canada I find shipping to here ridiculous. I also bought the same rod oven that Oscar has posted. Took over a year and a half to get it here because I had it delivered to my kid's house in the U.S. Thanks covid-19. I'm using rod that has been in my possession more than 20 years. It is 7018 AC and I find it does run noticeably smoother and the oven seems to reduce/eliminate arc start porosity. I bought the oven from these guys as the same oven at the time was over $300 CAD. I paid $89 USD and I see the price has risen $10 USD. An old toaster oven might work fine for a test.
https://www.weldingforless.com/colle...electrode-oven

[Louie1961]

Planning to do any comparisons on cooked v.s. raw? Just curious if the oven will make a big difference...

Its easy to do your own comparison if you buy a can of hermetically sealed rod. Fresh out of they shouldn't need to be baked, and should be good for 4-8 hours of air exposure (depending on the rating of the rod) before needing to be "reconditioned". Pop open a can, weld some, then leave those rods hanging around for some period of time (a week, a month, whatever) and come back and weld with rods from the same can. I find the fresh stuff gives a slag peel a little easier, and run a tad smoother. But its not a huge difference in my experience. I am not sure how accurate I would be if you gave me a handful of fresh out of the can rods, and a handful that have been sitting around and ask me to tell you which is which.

[smithdoor]

E6013 is great rod to use I used hundreds of pounds of E6013.
The only reason I used E7018 is type of work I was doing building that was being inspected. I used per the AWS requirements.
Same reason I did not use solid wire.
I used I very costly E71T-1 with CO2 for metal building work (mostly hangar doors)

I would enjoy welding without a group looking at work trying find a error.

Dave

I've been fixing farm equipment ( my own, like I said, I'm no pro welder) for over 40 yrs and 90% of that work was with stick, and usually with 6013's (probably the most hated rod on this site) or 7014's. If you had asked me before you started, I would have recommended starting with 7014's to get a feel for it, so I don't see a problem with the direction you're going. Over 40 yrs and I didn't try 7018's until I got on here and these guys all had a boner for them, so I had to find out what the story was as well. I didn't have DC until last July, so most of that was with 7018AC's. Still don't have a rod oven either, but unless you're welding to pro structural specs, is not a big deal. I'm seriously thinking about fitting an old bar fridge with a light bulb for cheap "warmish" storage. As you have already learned, getting the cheap US stuff across the border isn't cost effective. Probably the "better" of the cheap rods will be the ones at Princess Auto... like I said ... they are "ok" for practice runs, but I wouldn't recommend them for your first repair on the Space Shuttle, and I really didn't like the cheapy 7018's on AC.