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Thread: mig or tig aluminum?

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    mig or tig aluminum?

    hey guys new to forum didnt do alot of searching as time is money....heres my question i am looking to weld a lot of 3/8" x3" aluminum flat stock it is anodized i plan on removing that but it was the right price, i have a syncrowave 200 and 350p was thinking of getting spool gun vs tig welding it all .what do you guys think is suitable ?i dont need cosmetics just functionthey will be support stands for alignments about 16" tall probably hold 1500 lb each and plan on over engineering as is

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    Re: mig or tig aluminum?

    If you can get away with mig I would definitely go that route. Tig is great but I don't see it even being close to mig , speed wise

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    Re: mig or tig aluminum?

    How 'bout a leetle more info?

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    Re: mig or tig aluminum?

    With a 350P I would skip the spool gun and get an XR AlumaPro push/pull setup if you decide to go the MIG route. The only real downside is you can't have the machine setup for both steel and aluminum at the same time. I have heard folks say they've had to fiddle with the settings to get the gun and machine calibrated, but I've run four different XR AlumaPros on my 350P and they all worked fine using the value listed on each gun.
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    Re: mig or tig aluminum?

    Does a Synch 200 even have enough power for 3/8" Aloominum ?
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    Re: mig or tig aluminum?

    Quote Originally Posted by Broccoli1 View Post
    Does a Synch 200 even have enough power for 3/8" Aloominum ?
    Good point...I read his post too quickly and though it was a Sync 300....big difference.
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    Re: mig or tig aluminum?

    If I was trying to make money then MIG.
    If working for someone else TIG is more fun.

    Dave

    Quote Originally Posted by mikemechman View Post
    hey guys new to forum didnt do alot of searching as time is money....heres my question i am looking to weld a lot of 3/8" x3" aluminum flat stock it is anodized i plan on removing that but it was the right price, i have a syncrowave 200 and 350p was thinking of getting spool gun vs tig welding it all .what do you guys think is suitable ?i dont need cosmetics just functionthey will be support stands for alignments about 16" tall probably hold 1500 lb each and plan on over engineering as is

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    Re: mig or tig aluminum?

    MIG with the 350p, definitely.

    You can run a 10ft whip with the liner trimmed right up to the rolls, and it will feed just perfectly, if you can made do with the short reach.
    My Lorch S3 works on push-only with a 13ft whip and it handles even ultra soft pure grade aluminium - 5356 grade is a doddle.

    In contrast, 300 amps on TIG for 3/8" will be slow...
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    Re: mig or tig aluminum?

    In contrast, 300 amps on TIG for 3/8" will be slow...
    The syncrowave 250 is 300 amps but it would be even longer at 200Amps , 20% duty cycle.





    The syncrowave 200 would be a little bit underpowered. With pre heat it would be a slow go on a smaller assembly , but if its 4 - 6 ft. long parts welded together, it would take forever, probably hitting thermal limit. I like my syncro 180(similar to the 200,just 20 less amps), but this is not the job for it. I've done 1/4" aluminum with mine and the fan has come on continuous , but I never tripped the thermal.



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    The 350p is built for that kind of job isn't it ? Is it a Miller 350p ?



    I've had good luck with teflon liners in 10-12 foot guns, and 5356 wire. The 350p should definitely have the amperage.


    good luck
    Last edited by albrightree; 01-05-2022 at 12:44 PM.
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    Re: mig or tig aluminum?

    Quote Originally Posted by Munkul View Post
    MIG with the 350p, definitely.

    You can run a 10ft whip with the liner trimmed right up to the rolls, and it will feed just perfectly, if you can made do with the short reach.
    My Lorch S3 works on push-only with a 13ft whip and it handles even ultra soft pure grade aluminium - 5356 grade is a doddle.

    In contrast, 300 amps on TIG for 3/8" will be slow...
    Better yet get a nylon or teflon liner for that gun and have at it. Only drawback is if the gun is aircooled it will heat up fast.

    DF Specialties is a good aftermarket choice for alum mig guns. https://www.dfmachinespecialties.com...ooled-mig-guns
    Last edited by shovelon; 01-05-2022 at 02:57 PM.
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    Re: mig or tig aluminum?

    Quote Originally Posted by mikemechman View Post
    hey guys new to forum didnt do alot of searching as time is money....heres my question i am looking to weld a lot of 3/8" x3" aluminum flat stock it is anodized i plan on removing that but it was the right price, i have a syncrowave 200 and 350p was thinking of getting spool gun vs tig welding it all .what do you guys think is suitable ?i dont need cosmetics just functionthey will be support stands for alignments about 16" tall probably hold 1500 lb each and plan on over engineering as is
    We used to do a lot Marine stuff years ago out of aluminum. And we had done it with TIG. Then people wanted it for less and we setup the push pull Cobramatic, we had two suitcases one for steel one for aluminum on the same power supply. On steel we never had a problem. However on aluminum on long runs on aluminum a couple times as the part cooled, it let loose. It was a picture perfect weld, very good penetration we used only the best materials and gas. And what was even funnier one unit came back in the spring almost a year later, it had cracked over the winter. So if you are doing ten or twenty inches this is not a problem in my opinion but if you are doing six or eight feet you might want to be mindful of this. You will get a lot of ozone in the air from it, very hard on your skin eyes and lungs if you do a lot of it.


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    Re: mig or tig aluminum?

    Quote Originally Posted by smithdoor View Post
    If I was trying to make money then MIG.
    If working for someone else TIG is more fun.
    Exactly how I'd feel...

    Get 'er done, MIG

    See how pretty you can make it, TIG (plus it really is more fun...)

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    Re: mig or tig aluminum?

    Quote Originally Posted by shovelon View Post
    Better yet get a nylon or teflon liner for that gun and have at it. Only drawback is if the gun is aircooled it will heat up fast.

    DF Specialties is a good aftermarket choice for alum mig guns. https://www.dfmachinespecialties.com...ooled-mig-guns
    you're absolutely right, I assumed that everyone knew about liner types.
    For the binzel style guns we all use over here, we use nylon/teflon liners with a short brass spiral neck liner to stop the liner at the very tip from overheating. We did quite a bit of 5356 pulse MIG in 1mm wire dia around 220 amps with a gascooled 320amp torch, it worked well but I wouldn't have wanted any more amps going through it, it got HOT, would have to leave it to cool after a few runs.
    Now on 1.2mm wire at up to 280 amps with a watercooled torch and it's definitely better, could run continuously if we wanted.

    Try using a nylon liner without the brass neck liner and it runs great for about 10 seconds and then starts grabbing the wire and eventually birdsnesting.
    Last edited by Munkul; 01-06-2022 at 04:17 AM.
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    Re: mig or tig aluminum?

    Quote Originally Posted by mikemechman View Post
    hey guys new to forum didnt do alot of searching as time is money....
    I guess I missed this the first time around. I guess only your time is valuable?

    Guys, pretty sure this is someone Oscar would call an "askhole"....
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    Re: mig or tig aluminum?

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    Re: mig or tig aluminum?

    I am NOT qualified to address the subject of MIG. I've had a spool gun years, never used it.
    I am VERY comfortable with TIG, MIG seems a bit iffy. If the stars are aligned, MIG aluminum works fine. It's the sort of thing I think of as production shop. I have 12000 identical welds to produce, I'll practice, fine tune, dial it in. One off stuff, I favor TIG.
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    Re: mig or tig aluminum?

    I too was a kind of "Tig Only" guy and my Aluminum Mig experience was from years ago with a Spool Gun.

    It's a different world today though

    Synergetic, Double Pulse, Teflon Lined Gun, none of todays technology can be compared with those, old, experiences of mine. Once "Dialed-In", Mig has become a real alternative for Me now...

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    Re: mig or tig aluminum?

    Quote Originally Posted by BaTu View Post
    I too was a kind of "Tig Only" guy and my Aluminum Mig experience was from years ago with a Spool Gun.

    It's a different world today though

    Synergetic, Double Pulse, Teflon Lined Gun, none of todays technology can be compared with those, old, experiences of mine. Once "Dialed-In", Mig has become a real alternative for Me now...
    The MillerMatic 350P-Aluminum only is amazing. Miller reworked the standard 350P to use the new MAXAL ER4943 wire, which is very brittle. Yes alum specific but simple and effective as all getout. They did away with the synchronization routine by using the torque/stall primary drive.
    Weld like a "WELDOR", not a wel-"DERR"
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    Re: mig or tig aluminum?

    Quote Originally Posted by shovelon View Post
    The MillerMatic 350P-Aluminum only is amazing. Miller reworked the standard 350P to use the new MAXAL ER4943 wire, which is very brittle. Yes alum specific but simple and effective as all getout. They did away with the synchronization routine by using the torque/stall primary drive.
    Ford sort of forced that specialized machine. I live in the rust belt. I love the idea of aluminum bodies. Now Ford needs galvanized frames.
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    Re: mig or tig aluminum?

    We weld a lot of aluminum in my shop. 50/50 repair work and production welding. We used a spoolmatic on a MM200 or a Lincoln 200 square wave until the production numbers went up. I still have those units but added a couple Miller 255P with Alumapro guns. The welding is night and day different. Between the two of us we have burned tons of aluminum wire. Our repair work is anything from 20ga to 1/2" and most of our production parts are 11ga. We used to TIG a lot for cosmetic reasons but the pulse welders and Alumapro are game changers. Production parts are all pressure tested. The only time the TIG gets fired up is when the 255's are busy on stainless and it takes too much time to switch one over. That or to fix an occasional leak. I do prefer the TIG and 4043 for cast repairs. The price on the 255 with an Alumapro has increased $1400+ in the past year.

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    Re: mig or tig aluminum?

    Quote Originally Posted by shovelon View Post
    Better yet get a nylon or teflon liner for that gun and have at it. Only drawback is if the gun is aircooled it will heat up fast.

    DF Specialties is a good aftermarket choice for alum mig guns. https://www.dfmachinespecialties.com...ooled-mig-guns
    The link you posted was for air-cooled guns, here's the link for water cooled : https://www.dfmachinespecialties.com...led-mig-pistol

    WOW , good for up to 650 amps ! They also post cautions on making sure you have the water and cooling capacity. Running dry, and quickly adding water appears to be another way to make steam, and ruin the torch.
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    Re: mig or tig aluminum?

    Quote Originally Posted by albrightree View Post
    The link you posted was for air-cooled guns, here's the link for water cooled : https://www.dfmachinespecialties.com...led-mig-pistol

    WOW , good for up to 650 amps ! They also post cautions on making sure you have the water and cooling capacity. Running dry, and quickly adding water appears to be another way to make steam, and ruin the torch.
    WW continues to amaze. The OP (who normally will never be heard from again) wants to weld some 3/8" AL and you suggest thousands of dollars of investment as the way to go. I mean, what is the matter with you people? As well, t seems to me that some of the 'old hands' (finely calibrated to the number of posts) here must not have an actual job other than commenting here. I mean criminy! Just buy a friggin' spool gun that plugs in and weld.

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    Re: mig or tig aluminum?

    Quote Originally Posted by Yofish View Post
    WW continues to amaze. The OP (who normally will never be heard from again) wants to weld some 3/8" AL and you suggest thousands of dollars of investment as the way to go. I mean, what is the matter with you people? As well, t seems to me that some of the 'old hands' (finely calibrated to the number of posts) here must not have an actual job other than commenting here. I mean criminy! Just buy a friggin' spool gun that plugs in and weld.
    And some people commenting here continue to amaze me as well. Maybe actually read the OP's post carefully? He said: "heres my question i am looking to weld a lot of 3/8" x3" aluminum flat stock".

    So he wants to weld "a lot" of 3/8" aluminum. I don't know what his definition of "a lot" is, but he does have a Millermatic 350P, which starts out as a $6,999, so he's either got some sort of commercial shop or is one heck of a serious enthusiast.

    A Spoolmatic 30A is $1,700 so it's not like your suggestion is a drop in the bucket for most people. If he's really welding high volume, something like a water-cooled push/pull gun might make sense and if it's a business expense it makes even more sense.
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  34. #24
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    Re: mig or tig aluminum?

    OP
    i have a syncrowave 200 and 350p was thinking of getting spool gun vs tig welding it all .what do you guys think is suitable ?
    MJD
    If you can get away with mig I would definitely go that route.


    YoFish
    How 'bout a leetle more info?
    G-ManBart
    With a 350P I would skip the spool gun and get an XR AlumaPro push/pull setup if you decide to go the MIG route.


    Broccoli1
    Does a Synch 200 even have enough power for 3/8" Aloominum ?


    SmithDoor
    If I was trying to make money then MIG.
    If working for someone else TIG is more fun.

    Munkul
    MIG with the 350p, definitely.You can run a 10ft whip with the liner trimmed right up to the rolls, and it will feed just perfectly, if you can made do with the short reach.
    Albrightree
    I've had good luck with teflon liners in 10-12 foot guns, and 5356 wire. The 350p should definitely have the amperage.


    Shovelon
    Better yet get a nylon or teflon liner for that gun and have at it.


    Willie B
    I am NOT qualified to address the subject of MIG. I've had a spool gun years, never used it.
    I am VERY comfortable with TIG, MIG seems a bit iffy. If the stars are aligned, MIG aluminum works fine. It's the sort of thing I think of as production shop. I have 12000 identical welds to produce, I'll practice, fine tune, dial it in. One off stuff, I favor TIG.

    BaTu
    I too was a kind of "Tig Only" guy and my Aluminum Mig experience was from years ago with a Spool Gun.
    It's a different world today though
    Synergetic, Double Pulse, Teflon Lined Gun, none of todays technology can be compared with those, old, experiences of mine. Once "Dialed-In", Mig has become a real alternative for Me now...

    [B]Twisted[/B]
    We weld a lot of aluminum in my shop. 50/50 repair work and production welding. We used a spoolmatic on a MM200 or a Lincoln 200 square wave until the production numbers went up. I still have those units but added a couple Miller 255P with Alumapro guns. The welding is night and day different. Between the two of us we have burned tons of aluminum wire. Our repair work is anything from 20ga to 1/2" and most of our production parts are 11ga. We used to TIG a lot for cosmetic reasons but the pulse welders and Alumapro are game changers. Production parts are all pressure tested. The only time the TIG gets fired up is when the 255's are busy on stainless and it takes too much time to switch one over. That or to fix an occasional leak. I do prefer the TIG and 4043 for cast repairs. The price on the 255 with an Alumapro has increased $1400+ in the past year.

    Yofish
    Just buy a friggin' spool gun that plugs in and weld.




    @Shovelon - Thanks for posting the link for DF, its nice to see some companies still make some good stuff in the USA.



    I have a place by me that still does a bunch of stuff(mostly TIG torches, and parts). I've had a 25 foot #26 torch for years as my outside(some might say ditch) torch. Aside from normal cups, collets, and mostly back caps, its served well in tough conditions.

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    I think their stuff is still available through Linde dealers(used to be praxair).

    So he wants to weld "a lot" of 3/8" aluminum. I don't know what his definition of "a lot" is, but he does have a Millermatic 350P, which starts out as a $6,999, so he's either got some sort of commercial shop or is one heck of a serious enthusiast.

    A Spoolmatic 30A is $1,700 so it's not like your suggestion is a drop in the bucket for most people. If he's really welding high volume, something like a water-cooled push/pull gun might make sense and if it's a business expense it makes even more sense.
    The syncrowave 200 isn't that cheap either. Even without the spool gun, its got the be north of $3000 dollars. Maybe he'll buy one of the $99 spool guns off Amazon'. It is kinda funny that a guy with all that machinery would ask this sort of question. I would figure after trying the TIG machine, he'd get one bead done in about 1/2 hour (still waiting for puddle) Maybe that's why he hasn't gotten back to us. https://www.weldingweb.com/images/smilies/laughing.gif

    Have a nice Day https://www.weldingweb.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif
    Last edited by albrightree; 01-13-2022 at 12:02 PM.
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    Re: mig or tig aluminum?

    Quote Originally Posted by G-ManBart View Post
    And some people commenting here continue to amaze me as well. Maybe actually read the OP's post carefully? He said: "heres my question i am looking to weld a lot of 3/8" x3" aluminum flat stock".

    So he wants to weld "a lot" of 3/8" aluminum. I don't know what his definition of "a lot" is, but he does have a Millermatic 350P, which starts out as a $6,999, so he's either got some sort of commercial shop or is one heck of a serious enthusiast.

    A Spoolmatic 30A is $1,700 so it's not like your suggestion is a drop in the bucket for most people. If he's really welding high volume, something like a water-cooled push/pull gun might make sense and if it's a business expense it makes even more sense.
    You are correct that you DO NOT KNOW what is a 'lot' because he/she never said and you obviously don't as well. Now just put on your thinking brain a bit. Do you really think the OP is gonna weld 3/8x3x144" bar into a T? Or corner to corner? And, where is this OP? Time and time again is time wasted by people that just have to yap about things they don't really know about in reply to someone who has ONE POST! Really?

    He has this high-end machine and he doesn't know what to do with it? Really?

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