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Thread: 250-300 amp tig

  1. #51
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    Re: 250-300 amp tig

    Quote Originally Posted by Oscar View Post
    have you checked your local sources for the cost of welding helium tank? (not the one for balloons, as that has air mixed in it, which is not correct for welding). You might be in for a surprise.
    No idea, what is the average price?

  2. #52
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    Re: 250-300 amp tig

    Quote Originally Posted by Ralphm View Post
    The budget is not defined, that's why i consult experienced people like you. If needed, i can buy a 280dx but this is not my wish because i do not earn money with this machine.
    I can do 90% of what i want with a 200-220amp welder. 10% for 1/4 and 3/8 aluminum. I weld especially aluminum.
    For the space my preference is one machine but i can live with 2 if i save 10 000$.
    For 90% i prefer to be plugged into the 220v and i have acces to the 575v 3 phase for the thick metal.

    A very good 220amp welder and helium would be my first choice if it can get the job done. But, i don't want to make a mistake by buying the wrong device.
    I wasn't trying to argue with you or the other members. In order to give the best advice, it helps to know the constraints. Budget, percent of use for various thicknesses, power, space, portability, etc.

    Professional versus hobby vs small business.

    Location helps since we have members all over the world. Machines available and prices will vary drastically. Gas supplies will also varying price and availability.

    There is a thread that shows what various members are paying to refill their cylinders.

    Otherwise it turns into a guessing game.

    With this most recent info it will help the others to offer the best advice.

    There are people on here who are professional welders, professional hobbyists, small business owners, hobbyists, etc.

    There are also times when it makes sense to buy the machine that accomplishes your 90 percent goal and then just pay someone to do the other 10 percent.



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  3. #53
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    Re: 250-300 amp tig

    Quote Originally Posted by Ralphm View Post
    No idea, what is the average price?
    Last time I got a tri- mix fill, which is mostly helium, it was about 10x the cost of argon,($375) for a 330cf. For your needs I believe the 225 primeweld would be an excellent choice. Most aluminum I do is 1/8 or 3/16" with some 1/4 and 3/8" thrown in and it will do it. Joint configuration and or preheat will go a long ways on heavier material.

  4. #54
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    Re: 250-300 amp tig

    Quote Originally Posted by M J D View Post
    Last time I got a tri- mix fill, which is mostly helium, it was about 10x the cost of argon,($375) for a 330cf. For your needs I believe the 225 primeweld would be an excellent choice. Most aluminum I do is 1/8 or 3/16" with some 1/4 and 3/8" thrown in and it will do it. Joint configuration and or preheat will go a long ways on heavier material.
    What is the third gas in tri mix? I thought Tri Mix was MIG for stainless. I had a bottle of tri mix before I bought the first TIG machine. Airgas manager assured me I needed this to MIG beer kegs. He said back purge could be any shielding gas. For me, MIG stainless was a fail. I later learned TIG was a good deal better for stainless & it needs argon both sides.
    Aluminum needs Argon, Helium, or a mix. I have big bottles of argon I use most of the time I believe the little bottle of helium is 80 or 120 CF. It is precious, so I add as little as 5 CFH when welding very thick, or big mass. I haven't welded an engine that was going back into service, but that'd be a good place for helium.
    I can't say I'm familiar with Tri Mix for aluminum.
    An optimist is usually wrong, and when the unexpected happens is unprepared. A pessimist is usually right, when wrong, is delighted, and well prepared.

  5. #55
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    Re: 250-300 amp tig

    Quote Originally Posted by Willie B View Post
    What is the third gas in tri mix? I thought Tri Mix was MIG for stainless. I had a bottle of tri mix before I bought the first TIG machine. Airgas manager assured me I needed this to MIG beer kegs. He said back purge could be any shielding gas. For me, MIG stainless was a fail. I later learned TIG was a good deal better for stainless & it needs argon both sides.
    Aluminum needs Argon, Helium, or a mix. I have big bottles of argon I use most of the time I believe the little bottle of helium is 80 or 120 CF. It is precious, so I add as little as 5 CFH when welding very thick, or big mass. I haven't welded an engine that was going back into service, but that'd be a good place for helium.
    I can't say I'm familiar with Tri Mix for aluminum.

    It's mostly all helium, so he was just using it as a reference for cost.
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  6. #56
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    Re: 250-300 amp tig

    Quote Originally Posted by Willie B View Post
    What is the third gas in tri mix? I thought Tri Mix was MIG for stainless. I had a bottle of tri mix before I bought the first TIG machine. Airgas manager assured me I needed this to MIG beer kegs. He said back purge could be any shielding gas. For me, MIG stainless was a fail. I later learned TIG was a good deal better for stainless & it needs argon both sides.
    Aluminum needs Argon, Helium, or a mix. I have big bottles of argon I use most of the time I believe the little bottle of helium is 80 or 120 CF. It is precious, so I add as little as 5 CFH when welding very thick, or big mass. I haven't welded an engine that was going back into service, but that'd be a good place for helium.
    I can't say I'm familiar with Tri Mix for aluminum.
    I'm not aware of any tri mix for aluminum. I'm very well of what gas mix is used for given materials, it was a cost comparison to the price of helium in comparison to argon. There are are variety of tri mix gases, I was referencing stainless tri mix which is 90 percent helium, 7.5 percent argon and 2.5 CO2. There are helium- argon blends available for either mig or tig aluminum but I can't see it as cost effective unless it's a commercial setting. Preheat for the occasional heavy aluminum is a decent cost effective solution for the smaller shop. As for mig stainless there are 3 main mixes, 90-7.5-2.5 tri mix for short circuit, 98ar-2 CO2 for spray and 75ar-25 CO2 for dual shield. The latter 2 wouldn't be much good on less than 3/16" or so material unless some type of pulsed spray was used. There is a mix utilizing nitrogen that they claim can short circuit mig stainless but I haven't used it so I won't comment on its effectiveness. A

  7. #57
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    Re: 250-300 amp tig

    Something else to keep in mind with helium. It is not only a lot more costly per cubic foot, you also need a higher cfh flow rate compared to argon as it's lighter than air.

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    Re: 250-300 amp tig

    Quote Originally Posted by Ralphm View Post
    I notice you come from UK, i can't find a lot of information and review on stel welder in europe, it seem's the rebrand htp has more review (and owner)
    When i do some research on tig welder in europe, rarely i can find the stel name. Maybe the search here do not give the same results as yours.
    I think they cater more to the industrial sector through a series of network distributors. https://www.stelgroup.it/en/

    Look, my machine made it to their Facebook page on their Nov 12 post!

    https://www.facebook.com/Stelgroup/
    Last edited by Oscar; 01-09-2022 at 07:13 PM.
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  9. #59
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    Re: 250-300 amp tig

    Quote Originally Posted by psacustomcreations View Post
    I wasn't trying to argue with you or the other members. In order to give the best advice, it helps to know the constraints. Budget, percent of use for various thicknesses, power, space, portability, etc.

    Professional versus hobby vs small business.

    Location helps since we have members all over the world. Machines available and prices will vary drastically. Gas supplies will also varying price and availability.

    There is a thread that shows what various members are paying to refill their cylinders.

    Otherwise it turns into a guessing game.

    With this most recent info it will help the others to offer the best advice.

    There are people on here who are professional welders, professional hobbyists, small business owners, hobbyists, etc.

    There are also times when it makes sense to buy the machine that accomplishes your 90 percent goal and then just pay someone to do the other 10 percent.



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    I don't think you're arguing and I'm glad you're asking questions to help me. The case of helium deserve to be deepened, maybe other people are in my situation. I don't want to pay someone else, i am an hobbyist who wants to tig weld 3/8 aluminum.

  10. #60
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    Re: 250-300 amp tig

    Quote Originally Posted by M J D View Post
    I'm not aware of any tri mix for aluminum. I'm very well of what gas mix is used for given materials, it was a cost comparison to the price of helium in comparison to argon. There are are variety of tri mix gases, I was referencing stainless tri mix which is 90 percent helium, 7.5 percent argon and 2.5 CO2. There are helium- argon blends available for either mig or tig aluminum but I can't see it as cost effective unless it's a commercial setting. Preheat for the occasional heavy aluminum is a decent cost effective solution for the smaller shop. As for mig stainless there are 3 main mixes, 90-7.5-2.5 tri mix for short circuit, 98ar-2 CO2 for spray and 75ar-25 CO2 for dual shield. The latter 2 wouldn't be much good on less than 3/16" or so material unless some type of pulsed spray was used. There is a mix utilizing nitrogen that they claim can short circuit mig stainless but I haven't used it so I won't comment on its effectiveness. A
    Thank you for clarification, thought I might have missed out on something important. I suppose there could be more than one variety of tri mix.
    An optimist is usually wrong, and when the unexpected happens is unprepared. A pessimist is usually right, when wrong, is delighted, and well prepared.

  11. #61
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    Re: 250-300 amp tig

    Quote Originally Posted by Willie B View Post
    Thank you for clarification, thought I might have missed out on something important. I suppose there could be more than one variety of tri mix.
    There is at least one more. It's a mix commonly referred to as " stargon". High argon percentage, and CO2 with about 2 percent oxygen. Used for steel or low alloy steel to get a little more " energy" in the arc. I've used it years ago with hard wire and didn't see much benefit over 75/25. For economy and simplicity I've generally used 75/25 with .035 hard wire and if that was lacking power, .045, or 1/16" dual shield generally with 75/25 or if it's a bigger job I will use CO2. What I've found gas ,with the exception of helium, is relatively cheap, cylinder rentals or leases, not so much.

  12. #62
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    Re: 250-300 amp tig

    You said you have 3 phase power. I would be looking for a used 3 phase tig.
    They are usually quite a bit cheaper as most people don't have access to 3 phase power.

  13. #63
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    Re: 250-300 amp tig

    Quote Originally Posted by bcguide View Post
    You said you have 3 phase power. I would be looking for a used 3 phase tig.
    They are usually quite a bit cheaper as most people don't have access to 3 phase power.
    I don't think he has 3-phase power. I don't find mention of it here in this thread.
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  14. #64
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    Re: 250-300 amp tig

    Quote Originally Posted by Ralphm View Post
    I notice you come from UK, i can't find a lot of information and review on stel welder in europe, it seem's the rebrand htp has more review (and owner)
    When i do some research on tig welder in europe, rarely i can find the stel name. Maybe the search here do not give the same results as yours.
    As Oscar says, they are aimed at industrial customers, in addition to this they don't have much of a foothold in the UK as far as sales and distribution goes. I'd maybe consider one myself if we had a good strong support network, but we don't.
    HTP America seems pretty good though.
    We also have some of (IMO) the best welders in the world, these would be Fronius, EWM and Lorch, with dealers across the UK for these. These, plus Miller and Esab on certain models, are my go-to brands.
    Murphy's Golden Rule: Whoever has the gold, makes the rules.

  15. #65
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    Re: 250-300 amp tig

    Quote Originally Posted by Ralphm View Post
    This is the one with the bad cooler ?
    Here is a syncrowave 350lx i found for sale
    Attachment 1735323Attachment 1735324
    Yes, that's the style with the cooler built into the side. They weld fine, but the configuration isn't really ideal. I've had to replace the radiator on one so I've spent a fair amount of time inside that style. They've got a lot more in the way of hoses and connections that can leak compared with the style that mounts the welder on top of the cooler. I would avoid that style unless you get a really good deal just to avoid future issues.
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  16. #66
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    Re: 250-300 amp tig

    Quote Originally Posted by bcguide View Post
    You said you have 3 phase power. I would be looking for a used 3 phase tig.
    They are usually quite a bit cheaper as most people don't have access to 3 phase power.
    Yes i have and it's one of my options. Very rare here a good syncrowave on 575v

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    Re: 250-300 amp tig

    Quote Originally Posted by Oscar View Post
    I think they cater more to the industrial sector through a series of network distributors. https://www.stelgroup.it/en/

    Look, my machine made it to their Facebook page on their Nov 12 post!

    https://www.facebook.com/Stelgroup/
    Congratulation, beautiful machine

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    Re: 250-300 amp tig

    Quote Originally Posted by G-ManBart View Post
    Yes, that's the style with the cooler built into the side. They weld fine, but the configuration isn't really ideal. I've had to replace the radiator on one so I've spent a fair amount of time inside that style. They've got a lot more in the way of hoses and connections that can leak compared with the style that mounts the welder on top of the cooler. I would avoid that style unless you get a really good deal just to avoid future issues.
    Thanks for the info. I continue my research.

  19. #69
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    Re: 250-300 amp tig

    Quote Originally Posted by Louie1961 View Post
    Dynasty 280, all day, every day, and twice on Sunday, if you can afford it.
    I request a quote for a 280dx, do i need the 301-235 a/c wave expansion card ?

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    Re: 250-300 amp tig

    Quote Originally Posted by psacustomcreations View Post
    I suggested helium as an alternative in the beginning of the thread. At the time, the OP did not mention his budget or the actual frequency of welding thicker material. A quick read through shows it looks like he still hasn't mentioned his budget. Or his space and power available.
    He was given a range of price points from $2,000 to $12,000.
    Yes, helium is expensive.
    Yes, you need more horsepower for thicker material.
    Yes, the best advice is usually "Buy once, cry once." Some can't afford that initial upfront cost.
    One bottle of helium a year is still cheaper than the wide price difference.


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    Do you have an opinion on the equivalent in amps provided by helium?

  21. #71
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    Re: 250-300 amp tig

    Quote Originally Posted by Munkul View Post
    As Oscar says, they are aimed at industrial customers, in addition to this they don't have much of a foothold in the UK as far as sales and distribution goes. I'd maybe consider one myself if we had a good strong support network, but we don't.
    HTP America seems pretty good though.
    We also have some of (IMO) the best welders in the world, these would be Fronius, EWM and Lorch, with dealers across the UK for these. These, plus Miller and Esab on certain models, are my go-to brands.
    Would you buy an htp welder instead of a miller? No dealer here, no support, lower price but better resale value for the miller. Long term maybe that equals the price. I have owned a millermatic 210 for a very long time and it still works like new.

  22. #72
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    Re: 250-300 amp tig

    Quote Originally Posted by Ralphm View Post
    Congratulation, beautiful machine
    Thanks. And I know you don't know me, but if it means anything, I'm a self-proclaimed "high level" hobbyist, and I think so highly of the Stel machines (and thus HTP as you can see) that I had HTP sell me and bring that one Stel stick welder from Italy, and they told me "if we do, you don't get a warranty, nothing!". I said "shut up and take my money!" But regardless, if the HTP Invertig doesn't fit the bill for you then definitely don't get it, don't matter to me. I just like recommending quality machines since they are a pleasure to use, and you won't find a single bad review about HTP anywhere on the entire internet.
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  23. #73
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    Re: 250-300 amp tig

    Quote Originally Posted by Oscar View Post
    Thanks. And I know you don't know me, but if it means anything, I'm a self-proclaimed "high level" hobbyist, and I think so highly of the Stel machines (and thus HTP as you can see) that I had HTP sell me and bring that one Stel stick welder from Italy, and they told me "if we do, you don't get a warranty, nothing!". I said "shut up and take my money!" But regardless, if the HTP Invertig doesn't fit the bill for you then definitely don't get it, don't matter to me. I just like recommending quality machines since they are a pleasure to use, and you won't find a single bad review about HTP anywhere on the entire internet.
    I believe you for the quality, my considerations comme from the fact that the rules are different for purchase , no free shipping, custom fee, shipping to be paid for a breakage under warranty. And resale value.

    I received a quote from miller and one from htp. As i ask Louie1961 whith no answer, do you think the expansion card 301-235 is needed whit the 280dx?

    Do i have to put the price of this card to make a good comparison whit the invertig 313?

    Thanks

  24. #74
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    Re: 250-300 amp tig

    Quote Originally Posted by Ralphm View Post
    I request a quote for a 280dx, do i need the 301-235 a/c wave expansion card ?
    Are you describing the card that adds amplitude? I've used mine 8? years. No, I don't have it. If I understand, balance control I select a % of amperage on the two way AC half cycles. Adding amplitude to the controllable balance, one can adjust duration of the half cycles. No one has convinced me to pay the price for it. I feel controlling balance, adding pulse for specialized applications meets my needs.

    Mike Zancanado (? spelling) has some old threads on the subject.
    Shovelon has also contributed knowledgeably to the subject. I believe larger Miller aluminum TIG welders come standard with it.
    An optimist is usually wrong, and when the unexpected happens is unprepared. A pessimist is usually right, when wrong, is delighted, and well prepared.

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  26. #75
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    Re: 250-300 amp tig

    Quote Originally Posted by Oscar View Post
    you won't find a single bad review about HTP anywhere on the entire internet.
    There are a few dozen on Amazon. Sorry, Oscar, but "not a single bad review in teh entire Universe!!!" was so absurd, I just had to call it out.

    I know you're a bigtime HTP fanboi and all, but as Joe says, "Come on!"

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