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Thread: 40Ton Hydraulic Press Brake

  1. #1
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    40Ton Hydraulic Press Brake

    Disclaimer: Everything i know on this subject was learned in the past 2 weeks. I’m open to all criticism.

    Decided I want to learn more about hydraulics, so I am going to replace my 20t
    Swag off-road finger brake (19” long) with a 36” long capacity.

    Rounding up it will have 40Tons of downforce. Powered by a car lift power unit at 2950psi.

    Main parts are 1” X 6” cold rolled. The middle of the press blade is 10” to the top of the hat shape. It “should” be grossly overbuilt”

    I drew this design from from the ground up with my limited knowledge on the subject.

    The biggest hurdle is timing the cylinders, I’m not going for extreme precision but I do want it pretty good. I plan to use a geared flow divider to hopefully Achieve “good enough.”

    Stroke will be 6”, no need for it to be that long but it gives me the option to move the blade out of my way.

    Anyway, stay tuned. Steel is ordered.

    I estimate the project to cost about $3000 and whatever after for tooling etc.

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  3. #2
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    Re: 40Ton Hydraulic Press Brake

    Cut the gussets for the legs since i have this chunk of 3/8 i got for free sitting in my
    Way.

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  5. #3
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    Re: 40Ton Hydraulic Press Brake

    Quote Originally Posted by BrooklynBravest View Post
    Disclaimer: Everything i know on this subject was learned in the past 2 weeks. I’m open to all criticism.

    Decided I want to learn more about hydraulics, so I am going to replace my 20t
    Swag off-road finger brake (19” long) with a 36” long capacity.

    Rounding up it will have 40Tons of downforce. Powered by a car lift power unit at 2950psi.

    Main parts are 1” X 6” cold rolled. The middle of the press blade is 10” to the top of the hat shape. It “should” be grossly overbuilt”

    I drew this design from from the ground up with my limited knowledge on the subject.

    The biggest hurdle is timing the cylinders, I’m not going for extreme precision but I do want it pretty good. I plan to use a geared flow divider to hopefully Achieve “good enough.”

    Stroke will be 6”, no need for it to be that long but it gives me the option to move the blade out of my way.

    Anyway, stay tuned. Steel is ordered.

    I estimate the project to cost about $3000 and whatever after for tooling etc.
    Looks like a nice project.

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    Re: 40Ton Hydraulic Press Brake

    The trick to "timing" the cylinders is a rotary flow divider,,
    I guess you need the tiniest one that you can find,,

    AND,, the answer is "NO" to the cheap divider,, as well as parallel connecting.

    It is too late for the other method,, that is connecting two cylinders in series,,
    because, for that, I believe the cylinders need to be different sizes,,
    I have seen that done on some sort of farm equipment.

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    Re: 40Ton Hydraulic Press Brake

    one thing i have learned as well from college studies that covered hydraulics and pneumatics is you want your hoses to be the same length, even if it means putting a loop in one. as the different in length of the hose/ pipework can throw off your timing a little.

    although hydraulic fluid is is generally regraded as incompressable it does have a very very small amount of give so the length of hose has to be factored into you timing question

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    Re: 40Ton Hydraulic Press Brake

    Quote Originally Posted by SweetMK View Post
    The trick to "timing" the cylinders is a rotary flow divider,,
    I guess you need the tiniest one that you can find,,

    AND,, the answer is "NO" to the cheap divider,, as well as parallel connecting.

    It is too late for the other method,, that is connecting two cylinders in series,,
    because, for that, I believe the cylinders need to be different sizes,,
    I have seen that done on some sort of farm equipment.
    Yep that’s the plan, it’s about $500 for the divider.
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    Re: 40Ton Hydraulic Press Brake

    A divider is one way as it looks too late for rephasing cylinders. As ghost said hose length is critical.

  10. #8
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    Re: 40Ton Hydraulic Press Brake

    If you can add an adjustment to move the cylinder up and down on one side as opposed to bleeding one side it will save you a lot of headaches.

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    Re: 40Ton Hydraulic Press Brake

    Quote Originally Posted by arcflash View Post
    If you can add an adjustment to move the cylinder up and down on one side as opposed to bleeding one side it will save you a lot of headaches.
    Not sure what you mean. They would need to be bled again after the initial setup?

    The rotary setups are that ****ty?

    If there’s no chance the divider works I can scrap the idea… everything thus far is returnable steel isn’t delivered till Monday.

    I was told putting the cylinders in series would not be accurate enough on another group.
    Last edited by BrooklynBravest; 01-05-2022 at 05:23 PM.
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    Re: 40Ton Hydraulic Press Brake

    I saw a nice one at auction a while back 75T, 800$ Aint no way I would build it today before I looked, maybe even new at that cost. I did one but,,, I needed it, did in a day, had it all in stock for free. Not as sophisticated, simple press.
    Last edited by Sberry; 01-05-2022 at 05:25 PM.

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    Re: 40Ton Hydraulic Press Brake

    From my experience they go out of adjustment easier than they stay in. Any small leakage past the piston on one side will throw out your ram after enough cycles. If keeping the ram and bed parallel is important adding a way to compensate the stroke length on one side would be helpful.

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    Re: 40Ton Hydraulic Press Brake

    Quote Originally Posted by arcflash View Post
    From my experience they go out of adjustment easier than they stay in. Any small leakage past the piston on one side will throw out your ram after enough cycles. If keeping the ram and bed parallel is important adding a way to compensate the stroke length on one side would be helpful.
    I mean, do you think I should abandon ship on the idea? I was hoping over a short span it wouldn’t be an issue but i have no experience here at all.
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    Re: 40Ton Hydraulic Press Brake

    Your cylinders are relatively small to think some adjustment will not be needed,,

    Heck, even a minor variation in material thickness of the part being bent can cause one side to be "out of time" with the other side.

    A huge volume is needed to compensate for all the possible "changes" that can occur,,

    An adjustment on one of the cylinder lengths will correct all of the issues.

    The real answer is going to have to be change to one big cylinder,,
    or,, move both cylinders to the center, one front, one back,, so that the cylinders are forced to work together.

  16. #14
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    Re: 40Ton Hydraulic Press Brake

    Alright i guess it’s back to the drawing board…
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    Re: 40Ton Hydraulic Press Brake

    Have you thought about something like this?




    https://www.pirate4x4.com/cdn-cgi/im...t-pc100004.jpg

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  19. #16
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    Re: 40Ton Hydraulic Press Brake

    Quote Originally Posted by RCcrawler View Post
    Have you thought about something like this?




    https://www.pirate4x4.com/cdn-cgi/im...t-pc100004.jpg
    I'm actually sitting here right now seeing how to redesign it to that style.
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    Re: 40Ton Hydraulic Press Brake

    The big concern at this point seems to be that uneven forces under the brake will cause the 2 cylinders to respond unevenly. On this short distance (from one side to the other) the force differences will be minimal, so why not just prevent the brake from coming down unevenly and forget about the expensive hydraulics? I'm thinking a frame on each end with 4 rollers to run on the press frame so the hydraulic force is all directed straight down, and can't twist from end to end. I see differences on a 40 foot machine with multiple cylinders, but for just 2 this close together it shouldn't be a big deal. I've also worked on implements with multiple cylinders plumbed in series and I wouldn't recommend it as a solution. They work great new, but any air or leakage makes them more wonky than the ones plumbed in parallel.
    The harder you fall, the higher you bounce...

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    Re: 40Ton Hydraulic Press Brake

    Quote Originally Posted by BrooklynBravest View Post
    I'm actually sitting here right now seeing how to redesign it to that style.
    Same issue really... as long as you can hold that plunger straight, all the downward force will be equal.
    The harder you fall, the higher you bounce...

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    Re: 40Ton Hydraulic Press Brake

    Deep in it now. My Brain hurts.

    Ignore the cylinder mounting.

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  23. #20
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    Re: 40Ton Hydraulic Press Brake

    A torque tube will keep blade straight

    Dave

    Quote Originally Posted by BrooklynBravest View Post
    Disclaimer: Everything i know on this subject was learned in the past 2 weeks. I’m open to all criticism.

    Decided I want to learn more about hydraulics, so I am going to replace my 20t
    Swag off-road finger brake (19” long) with a 36” long capacity.

    Rounding up it will have 40Tons of downforce. Powered by a car lift power unit at 2950psi.

    Main parts are 1” X 6” cold rolled. The middle of the press blade is 10” to the top of the hat shape. It “should” be grossly overbuilt”

    I drew this design from from the ground up with my limited knowledge on the subject.

    The biggest hurdle is timing the cylinders, I’m not going for extreme precision but I do want it pretty good. I plan to use a geared flow divider to hopefully Achieve “good enough.”

    Stroke will be 6”, no need for it to be that long but it gives me the option to move the blade out of my way.

    Anyway, stay tuned. Steel is ordered.

    I estimate the project to cost about $3000 and whatever after for tooling etc.

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  24. #21
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    Re: 40Ton Hydraulic Press Brake

    If you plan on using cold roll plate, I'd just forget it. You don't need it. The bit of additional tensile, and yield, strength, in the plane you're working with, isn't worth the additional cost.

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    Re: 40Ton Hydraulic Press Brake

    Quote Originally Posted by farmersammm View Post
    If you plan on using cold roll plate, I'd just forget it. You don't need it. The bit of additional tensile, and yield, strength, in the plane you're working with, isn't worth the additional cost.
    It was for the square clean edges vs the bullnose of hot rolled.
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    Re: 40Ton Hydraulic Press Brake

    I have a Promecam 35T single ram upstroking pressbrake... all I have to do is make sure I use the centre of the brake for everything, and I get perfect bends even over 2m lengths. I set all my tooling clamps with a DTI.
    You know about it if you try to use it to one side... the upstroking bottom die goes on the wonk.
    I think you'd be OK with the design as it is, provided you use a flow divider and equal length hoses. And then use the centre of the press for everything.
    You will need some form of fine adjustment in either the top or the bottom, just to get it perfect. So the hydraulics do their thing once bled.

    Its hard to want to go backwards once you've used a proper press though... setting the travel limit on the brake to acheive the same bend time after time again, and just positioning the metal and stomping, is pretty sweet.
    Last edited by Munkul; 01-06-2022 at 06:50 AM.
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  27. #24
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    Re: 40Ton Hydraulic Press Brake

    Quote Originally Posted by Munkul View Post
    I have a Promecam 35T single ram upstroking pressbrake... all I have to do is make sure I use the centre of the brake for everything, and I get perfect bends even over 2m lengths. I set all my tooling clamps with a DTI.
    You know about it if you try to use it to one side... the upstroking bottom die goes on the wonk.
    I think you'd be OK with the design as it is, provided you use a flow divider and equal length hoses. And then use the centre of the press for everything.
    You will need some form of fine adjustment in either the top or the bottom, just to get it perfect. So the hydraulics do their thing once bled.

    Its hard to want to go backwards once you've used a proper press though... setting the travel limit on the brake to acheive the same bend time after time again, and just positioning the metal and stomping, is pretty sweet.
    I use a swag offroad press currently and its the same thing. You MUST be in the middle if you're bending anything beyond printer paper.

    Repeatable bends are non existent with the swag, primarily because the die is free to float in the press.
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    Re: 40Ton Hydraulic Press Brake

    If you NEED square edges for fitment.....................price mild steel, and what it would cost to take it to a shop to have one edge, or whatever # of edges milled. Might save a boatload of money.

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