Question regarding boat trailer with rusted cross tubes

[Don52]

I noticed and liked a post from psacustomcreations, which involved turning down a job to fix a rusty trailer frame.

https://weldingweb.com/vbb/threads/1...91#post8840491

It got me thinking about a job that I turned down last year. It was a boat trailer that was worth about $6k. One of the bent cross tubes had been welded with a fish plate in the past and was now cracked. The problem that I saw was that the crack would allow water to enter the tube and rust it out from the inside. I turned down the job, but I was wondering if it could be repaired by replacing the entire cross tube with a tube that was bent from the steel supplier. I would have to check that other tubes weren't rusted from the inside and thinned down as well. Here is a picture of the tube.



What are your thoughts?

-Don

[123weld]

ive done one once almost like that one. if i was doin that one, from what i could see, id make it two straight pieces of rect tube comeing to a widened v shape - for reason of simplicity . then cut off bottom of v, and weld in a thick horiz flat bar. that way the under clearance is better, or not any lower than originally . thats what i did. i had the guy, put his boat in the water, and i picked the trailer up from his work, fixed it, and brought it back by end of day. that way i made the flat nosed "v" crossmember, and dropped it in to weld ends

[leightrepairs]

I would replace the cross tube with new, have a piece rolled to match what the radius of what is currently there. Make a carboard pattern of the existing and find a shop to roll it to match. I would assume there are other tubes in the same condition and closely inspect/replace all affected ones in the same manor.

[psacustomcreations]

We have a somewhat similar issue with one of our boat trailers at work. The manufacturer just put a simple plastic cap at the end of the tube. That collected and retained water with the typical end result.
I was asked about cutting out and fixing this one as well. The issue is they could not tell me how far up the tube it was rusted. Since this is in another location, they would need to drive it down to me for inspection/repair or get someone local to do the work.

[Don52]

I would replace the cross tube with new, have a piece rolled to match what the radius of what is currently there. Make a carboard pattern of the existing and find a shop to roll it to match. I would assume there are other tubes in the same condition and closely inspect/replace all affected ones in the same manor.

I agree that replacing the cross brace with a rolled tube similar to the original as you suggest would be the best approach. I think that testing the rest of the tubes for rust thinned walls with a picking hammer, would be prudent as well. If too many tubes require replacement, then the existing trailer should be scrapped and replaced. If a new trailer is $6k, I wouldn't want the repair to exceed $3k.

We have a somewhat similar issue with one of our boat trailers at work. The manufacturer just put a simple plastic cap at the end of the tube. That collected and retained water with the typical end result.
I was asked about cutting out and fixing this one as well. The issue is they could not tell me how far up the tube it was rusted. Since this is in another location, they would need to drive it down to me for inspection/repair or get someone local to do the work.

I guess that the goal would be to replace any rust damaged tubes.

-Don

[old miner called Pop]

As a preventive measure I got a somewhat crazy idea maybe one of you fellas can tell me whether or not it would work. Why not drill a hole at the lowest point and let the water condensation and whatever else gets in there out? That way it aint settin in there doin nothin but eatin away at the inside. Im not talkin about a big hole just a littleone maybe 3/8 or 1/2 inch depending on the size of the tube of course. Just a thought

[geezer]

I know and trailer builder that routinely uses rectangle tube, their standard approach is to drill small holes as you described

[Don52]

As a preventive measure I got a somewhat crazy idea maybe one of you fellas can tell me whether or not it would work. Why not drill a hole at the lowest point and let the water condensation and whatever else gets in there out? That way it aint settin in there doin nothin but eatin away at the inside. Im not talkin about a big hole just a littleone maybe 3/8 or 1/2 inch depending on the size of the tube of course. Just a thought

I know and trailer builder that routinely uses rectangle tube, their standard approach is to drill small holes as you described

I hear you both. I think for a boat trailer made with tubing, it would be best to seal up the tubes, so that when the trailer is submerged, during loading or unloading the boat, the inside of the tube stays completely dry. Even if you have a drain hole some water will be left behind. This water in the presence of air will react with the inside of the tube and form rust. For non-boat trailers made of tubing, in the case where the welds don't completely seal the tube, drain holes are necessary to keep the tubing from filling up with water and bursting, when the water freezes in the winter. Here is an example of a burst tube on a railing of a porch. Notice how the square tube has deformed into a cylinder from the internal pressure due to freezing.



-Don

[Lis2323]

As a preventive measure I got a somewhat crazy idea maybe one of you fellas can tell me whether or not it would work. Why not drill a hole at the lowest point and let the water condensation and whatever else gets in there out? That way it aint settin in there doin nothin but eatin away at the inside. Im not talkin about a big hole just a littleone maybe 3/8 or 1/2 inch depending on the size of the tube of course. Just a thought

Right or wrong that is what I have always done.


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[Don52]

Right or wrong that is what I have always done.

I hear you. In my mind I would refine the decision process further depending on the answers to the following questions:

1. Is the trailer going to be submerged in water?
2. Are the tubes completely sealed?

Unless the answer to both questions is Yes, then drain holes should be added to the tubes.

The ruptured tube shown above was on a post that had a casting pressed into the top.
You might be inclined to believe that the tube was sealed but it wasn't as evidenced by the fact that it filled with water.
Here is a close up of the casting on the top of the post.


Here is a picture of the drain hole that I added to the bottom.



-Don

[psacustomcreations]

We have some boat trailers made from heavy steel channel that is hot dipped galvanized.

Those are the best in my opinion.

We did have one that was tube steel but had holes drilled and was also hot dipped galvanized.

The issue I had with fixing that blue boat trailer is the amount of tube to be removed on both sides. It was more than half on both sides that needed replacing. New tube welded in and attached to all the various points. Then trying to treat or paint it so it did not rust away.

Another case of me not wanting to put my name and responsibility on the line on something going down the road.

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[William McCormick]

I would get out the oxygen-acetyelene torch clamp on half a set of my dividers to the torch and just whack the two arched plates, and then just bend and weld two plates to finish the box tubing, corner to corner weld. Or if you take it off the trailer you could just lay it on something and make a template and then follow that with a cutting torch if you do not like the divider idea. But that is how I make stuff using dividers or a stick with a screw through it.

I have a friend that has a really powerful roller but by the time you set it up to get an exact arc you need at least one test piece.


Sincerely,

William McCormick

[whtbaron]

Is light Stainless tubing an option?

[Don52]

We have some boat trailers made from heavy steel channel that is hot dipped galvanized.

Those are the best in my opinion.

I agree, I also prefer channel over tubing for any trailer.
Hot dipped galvanizing is also great for corrosion protection.

We did have one that was tube steel but had holes drilled and was also hot dipped galvanized.

The issue I had with fixing that blue boat trailer is the amount of tube to be removed on both sides. It was more than half on both sides that needed replacing. New tube welded in and attached to all the various points. Then trying to treat or paint it so it did not rust away.

You put your finger directly on my problem. Once you start repairing a rusted-out tubing trailer it is hard to stop especially if all of the tubes are rusted to some extent.

My concern is the cost of repair approaching half the cost of replacing the trailer.

Another case of me not wanting to put my name and responsibility on the line on something going down the road.

Amen

[Don52]

I would get out the oxygen-acetylene torch clamp on half a set of my dividers to the torch and just whack the two arched plates, and then just bend and weld two plates to finish the box tubing, corner to corner weld. Or if you take it off the trailer you could just lay it on something and make a template and then follow that with a cutting torch if you do not like the divider idea. But that is how I make stuff using dividers or a stick with a screw through it.

I have a friend that has a really powerful roller but by the time you set it up to get an exact arc you need at least one test piece.

About one year ago I found someone to roll some 2" x 4" x 1/4" wall rectangular Aluminum tubing for a project. Based on my investigation, it turns out it is easier to find someone that can roll steel as opposed to Aluminum. Before I fabricated the cross brace as you suggested, I would attempt to get someone to roll it for us, but a fabricated solution is also a possibility. 123Weld also suggested a fabricated solution, which involved three straight sections of tubing welded together to approximate the curved beam. if possible, I would like to have my repair look like the original and the other existing curved cross braces on the trailer. In other words, I'd like people to look have to twice to see that I repaired anything.

-Don

[Don52]

Is light Stainless tubing an option?

The trailer is currently carbon steel. If I made one beam out of stainless steel, it would corrode at the joint to the existing carbon steel tubing. Of course, an entire replacement trailer could be made of stainless steel, but I am guessing would cost much more than the $6k that a replacement carbon steel trailer would cost. I am not sure if it is possible to add a sacrificial anode somewhere to prevent corrosion of the joint.

-Don

[12V71]

The trailer is currently carbon steel. If I made one beam out of stainless steel, it would corrode at the joint to the existing carbon steel tubing. Of course, an entire replacement trailer could be made of stainless steel, but I am guessing would cost much more than the $6k that a replacement carbon steel trailer would cost. I am not sure if it is possible to add a sacrificial anode somewhere to prevent corrosion of the joint.

-Don

Sacrificial anode only works if it's in water all the time.

[geezer]

Condensation in tube resulting in rusted components was one reason metalman does not build his handrails with tube, see his thread fabschool. He uses solid stock, of course I did not catch his approach until I already used spare tube material on my deck. however, at 77 I wager conservatively they will see me out.

[cwby]

When you design a trailer out of tubing or refurb a trailer made out of tubing - the best solution is to design the thing with open tubes. That way the water goes in & the water goes out - no condensation, no leaks in joints. Sealing the tubes might work, but without pressure testing each member, how do you know there isn't a pin hole? How do you know that 1000 miles down the road a weld doesn't crack?

I would replace that rusted tube with two tubes open at the lowest point & use two plates sandwich fashion at the bottom of the V. (Caveat - if boat is a freshwater boat. Saltwater boat owner should know better that to try to repair it)

The best boat trailers are made out of channel with no tubular members. The 2nd best trailers are designed with all open tubes - usually aluminum, or hot dip galvanized.

[Sberry]

If it paid enough i would fix it.

[Xsbank]

That blue one needs to go to the dump. Boat trailers, unless they are hot-dipped or aluminum are wear items.

[psacustomcreations]

That blue one needs to go to the dump. Boat trailers, unless they are hot-dipped or aluminum are wear items.

I told them they need to replace the blue one and that was also why I did not try to fix it.

[SweetMK]

I told them they need to replace the blue one and that was also why I did not try to fix it.

Save the axle,, it can be used to make a great bell,,,

HECK, ANYTHING can be used to make a bell,,

Someone on here has proven that!!

[psacustomcreations]

I told them they need to replace the blue one and that was also why I did not try to fix it.

We have the same boat trailer where I work. One is blue and painted steel, one is hot dipped galvanized.
Both have drain holes at the very end before the plug.
The bad one I showed is up in New York so I am sure it froze as well as retained water.
Here is my work trailer like the blue one.
I am lucky and keep all thr trailers in a warehouse. I also put all the trailers on jackstands to remove any weight from the tires to prevent flat spots.




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[SweetMK]

We have the same boat trailer where I work. One is blue and painted steel, one is hot dipped galvanized.
Both have drain holes at the very end before the plug.
The bad one I showed is up in New York so I am sure it froze as well as retained water.
Here is my work trailer like the blue one.
I am lucky and keep all the trailers in a warehouse.

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Interesting that you mention New York,, THAT is the location of YouTube sensation Andrew Camarata ,,
(he has over a MILLION subscribers on YouTube)

Andrew fights rust constantly, in a manner that us in Virginia can not understand, or comprehend.

(Andrew FIGHTS EVERYTHING,, that is why he is a YouTube sensation,, IIRC, he has to use a chainsaw to install a radio in the dash of his truck!!)

Heck, he has rust like shown on the blue boat trailer,, , except, his trailer is a simple 16 foot utility trailer,, with a channel frame.
The trailer Andrew worked on was probably never even dunked in the water, ever. IIRC,, his utility trailer had the flat fenders simply rust away,, completely.

New York may be like Pennsylvania,, and have vehicle rust that destroys unbelievably,,

Oh, Yea, Us at WeldingWeb STRIVE to weld like Andrew can,,
`~` `~`