Determining shop rate

[smithdoor]

That true some get from there parents.
It is not rocket science.

But on other hand I have work on quotes most life. Witch is a form of accounting even that was not cover in school it was mention only.

When did a quote I calculated down to everything nut and bolt including labeling cost.
The cost of welding if I went book it tell you how long it takes a welder to due his welding. But it was never right after track a welder it turned to be take how long it takes to do just weld and multiple by 0.20 or 20% work for safe quote.
The book does not take with working with a human that stops to drink coffee or smoking.

Back before 1980's most used a check they had tab/stub on the left hand side you check a box typically it had about 6 categories with other. The business owner would check or write in other .
They give the check stubs to there accountant for taxes. There also a check stubs for payroll and a combo too.

Today with the bank account is link to software can simpler you still need to categories in.
I bet some business owners just print the checking account and take to there accountant today and let accountant select the categories too.

Dave

That's not a smart way to run a business, at best you're relying on luck to keep you afloat, at worst you'll lose track of things and go bust.

Basic accounting isn't rocket science, it's just being educated in how to track existing income/outgoings and trying to plan ahead. Unless you're born with an instinct for accounting, the only way you get good at it is by learning. Either at college, or slowly and painfully in real life.

[Sberry]

I kind of agree with the pocket accounting in some cases. Other methods are good for organizations and they need them but noting motivates a guy like feeling his pocket fill up and it makes it easier at times to tip where you should. . A lot does depend on taxes also which is less of a problem if you are really making money.

[smithdoor]

You do that too.
But I look for best profit.
I did lot of quoting where down to counting ever bolt and weld.

Pricing and quoting is a art part what are others charging.

Dave

That's not a smart way to run a business, at best you're relying on luck to keep you afloat, at worst you'll lose track of things and go bust.

Basic accounting isn't rocket science, it's just being educated in how to track existing income/outgoings and trying to plan ahead. Unless you're born with an instinct for accounting, the only way you get good at it is by learning. Either at college, or slowly and painfully in real life.

[Sberry]

I had a bud did pocket accounting. He did auto repair. The parts guys wanted him to get accounts and he used his pocket, simply paid when he got it and that way the sales tax was paid. He had it worked out a bit for end of year but didnt fart with all that other stuff and didnt count the flat washers and silicone, simply tacked on a little fee for it.

[smithdoor]

You find most shops do not track, the little items is less than to cost of tracking is great than part.
I think more tracking today but they charge for a part that cost $0.10 but bill shows $5.99.

But in metal buildings companies and my line of work we supplying thousands of nuts and bolts 🔩 you will keep track of that cost too.

Dave

I had a bud did pocket accounting. He did auto repair. The parts guys wanted him to get accounts and he used his pocket, simply paid when he got it and that way the sales tax was paid. He had it worked out a bit for end of year but didnt fart with all that other stuff and didnt count the flat washers and silicone, simply tacked on a little fee for it.

[Sberry]

Yes but for smaller operations the accounting cost more than the product. Everyone understands thousands but accounting for pocket change on one off is too expensive. Not that all these things are bad,,, or good for that matter but we need to considere the application and who we are talking to. Got to remember,,, the customers dont care about all that,,, what your electri9c bill or phone costs, they want estimate of their cost not yours. We have spots like that,, we could use less if we spent 5 large to save 500,,, not hard to do that.

[Sberry]

I am working on a deal now where I am willing to give away all the material interest in exchange for giving me all the labor rate,

[Sberry]

I dont do the same thing all the time but I aint against buying 500 ft of something if I know I will eventually use it. I collect stuff so to speak and try to stock enough for a head start. Box of switches, recepts connectors etc. I buy a few 3/32 7018 and still working on a full can 7018 someone gave me was punctured, 20 yrs ago. I done a lot with it, we use wire mostly untill my neighbor just gave up 60 # 6011 which I am going to attempt to use up, they are free.

[smithdoor]

If buying expensive wire or rod you charge extra over the everyday/ hourly rate.

I was in shops if used a few bolts out of cabinet they would not charge for bolts. But had a box of bolts or special bolts they would. Cutting tools was same way standard no charge if they had buy special cutter then charge for cutter.

Dave

I dont do the same thing all the time but I aint against buying 500 ft of something if I know I will eventually use it. I collect stuff so to speak and try to stock enough for a head start. Box of switches, recepts connectors etc. I buy a few 3/32 7018 and still working on a full can 7018 someone gave me was punctured, 20 yrs ago. I done a lot with it, we use wire mostly untill my neighbor just gave up 60 # 6011 which I am going to attempt to use up, they are free.

[Sberry]

If buying expensive wire or rod you charge extra over the everyday/ hourly rate.

Yes, agree. Depending on who, where and what I might tack some items on a bill. Where customers pick up will add a tube of something for the juice. Sometimes 5 or 10$ for grinding wheel or 2, Paint on occasion is another incidental. It aint a big deal and only nibbles at it but I see the secretary added 10 to one last week for paper towels and window cleaner.

[Jodo]

Labour rate - 75/hr
Welding rate, steel - 100/hr
Aluminum - 125/hr
Stainless - 150/hr
This is what we charge. Overhead in a welding shop is very high. Don't ever undersell yourself. If your shop rates are low, you will come across as an idiot/noob.

[Lis2323]

Labour rate - 75/hr
Welding rate, steel - 100/hr
Aluminum - 125/hr
Stainless - 150/hr
This is what we charge. Overhead in a welding shop is very high. Don't ever undersell yourself. If your shop rates are low, you will come across as an idiot/noob.

I realize rates will vary according to region but (pro) shop rates around here welding or not are north of $150.

Advertised starting wage at A&W is $17.50 an hour.


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[smithdoor]

Most machine shope charge the same welding. Machine is alway about 20% higher.
They will charge extra for brazing and hard facing.

When I was quoting work it was labor plus material cost witch also included welding rod/wire and gas.

Dave

I realize rates will vary according to region but (pro) shop rates around here welding or not are north of $150.

Advertised starting wage at A&W is $17.50 an hour.


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[MetalMan23]

This is the way I look at it, I make 1000s of linear feet of railing and fencing every year, when I first started 10 years ago, I was dirt cheap, I didn't know any better, when I started to realize how much my work was worth, I raised prices,

now, I can make railings and fencing so fast and efficiently, I would be losing money if I charged my shop rate, sometimes I end up making triple or more than I would have if I billed hourly.

I'm within $5 of the rates of the welding shops in my area.

If I do mobile welding I have minimum of usually 250, then hourly after that, and then I add consumables and fuel and a couple bucks for running the welder.

Tbone is right, being a good welder or fabricator is nothing, you have to sell jobs, meet with customers, keep them happy, price jobs, keep track of your quotes, respond in a timely manner to everyone, keep the truck stocked with everything you might possibly need, order materials, schedule jobs, keep track of your books so you know what you make on each job and if you're charging enough, pay off your material bills, order supplies for shop /truck, run payroll, make sure you make enough money this week to cover next weeks payroll.

man there's a lot goes in to running a business.

And all of it falls apart if your not charging enough.

Itsva balancing act, you don't want to be the cheapest, ideally you want to be the most expensive but then customers won't use you,

So for me, I never sat down and figured out every dime of cost I have to pay, I just slowly fit myself right in the middle of the market price range for my services and products. And like any big company that charges you "environmental fees" or "delivery fees" you have to charge any fee you can get. I charge extra for people paying with credit cards.

I knew I was close to the market when about 6 years ago priced a job that was $120k and the customer said I was right in there with the other prices. So that's reassuring.

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[Munkul]

I knew I was close to the market when about 6 years ago priced a job that was $120k and the customer said I was right in there with the other prices. So that's reassuring.

That's got to be a really nice feeling. I quote for small jobs on my own part-time, sometimes to commercial customers (my preferred customers, as they understand the true cost of things!) and I'm often anxious over whether I ask too much/too little. So far just jobs up to the £4-5k mark ($7-8k)
I also get quotes from local fab shops for work at my day job at a factory, and I'm absolutely shocked at how much the quotes can vary depending on how much thought they've put into it.

The other week, I quoted my "premium rate" for making some patterned balustrade railings to a joinery company - fiddly work that just takes a lot time and I thought I estimated the time pretty well. It came out very expensive, and I winced when sending it through. Even sent through a link to some pre-made patterned rails saying these guys can do it far cheaper.

Got the go-ahead today. Just shows, one person's Expensive is another person's Reasonable.

[Sberry]

That is a good position to be in,,, charging so you would be losing at the hourly rate. It really helps to be in the same type field most of the time, now I am in basic repairs and its difficult as everything is one off and terrible to bid. I cant even remember the last time I did the same jib 2x.

[smithdoor]

I agree in repairs never saw same job twice

But My self I can say both buildings and doors it was all new work.

The repair industry can ask for a higher price. They know you can not do job.

Just look at plumbing industry they know you need water in then water out. 💧 If after hours they double the high price .
So 15 minute job could be over $400.00 @6pm.

Dave

That is a good position to be in,,, charging so you would be losing at the hourly rate. It really helps to be in the same type field most of the time, now I am in basic repairs and its difficult as everything is one off and terrible to bid. I cant even remember the last time I did the same jib 2x.

[MetalMan23]

If a customer is close, in town, for mobile welding my minimum is 200, if it's a couple towns over, 250, I tell them, bring it to the shop, I'll get it done quicker and it'll be cheaper for you,

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[smithdoor]

Sounds great 👍.
Now get paid.

Where I live they first start with farm labor to do welding. Then call around trying the best price to fix the southern farm worker welding. Then want and given them quote For free and 100 miles away.

FYI you have my dream job.
Dave

If a customer is close, in town, for mobile welding my minimum is 200, if it's a couple towns over, 250, I tell them, bring it to the shop, I'll get it done quicker and it'll be cheaper for you,

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[Sberry]

I had one of these smart azz phd types with several degrees that works for a non profit telling me about pricing with a straight face,,, well you price for a quart might be different than the next guy cause my overhead is different. She knows more about this kind of thing than most do cause she got a degree,,,, never did business but she an expert in talking down to most people I guess. Didnt consider the customer does not care about my individual cost. Absolutely no clue about market economy and living proof we need a house cleaning of the "educated" class.

[smithdoor]

I never say if got degree to any one.
But I a few tell all bull too. Till found I more education then they did and had licenses too (Contracting, Real estate broker and Gunsmithing license).

They would say but you a degree to get a job My reply it self employed in high school and paid for my college working.
They always made great face after that comment.

Dave

I had one of these smart azz phd types with several degrees that works for a non profit telling me about pricing with a straight face,,, well you price for a quart might be different than the next guy cause my overhead is different. She knows more about this kind of thing than most do cause she got a degree,,,, never did business but she an expert in talking down to most people I guess. Didnt consider the customer does not care about my individual cost. Absolutely no clue about market economy and living proof we need a house cleaning of the "educated" class.

[Sberry]

I have a lot of regrets how I did stuff. A lot of it is catching up with me.