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TS800 modification for brass annealing

2.4K views 7 replies 5 participants last post by  Kelvin  
#1 ·
Hello there
as I'm newbie with using torches and annealing so please excuse my amateur description of situation. I'd like to ask you if there is some possibility to modify the Bernzomatic TS8000 flame size and shape respectively. I've just gotten to brass annealing, so I need to precisely position the tip of the flame to specific part of the cases and possibly decreasing the thickness of it. My torch has Jumbo nozzle producing swivel flame, which I know isn't optimal for this, but as I got it basically for free it would be very helpful and money saving for me to use it at this occasion too. It could be removed, but I haven't found any spare / exchange nozzles to use. I've already discussed it with ppl who are reloading and doing flame annealing, but their actual machine (annealer) is very different than the mine, which is quite small and compact. So there isn't much space to mount a torch with powerfull and big flame. Thank you very much in advance for any kind of help!
Best,
T.
 
#2 ·
You need to give more details and probably provide pictures of the work and the torch tip you have. It's hard to give good advice when having to make assumptions.

If I couldn't find other tips for that torch (a common design/model) locally, I'd probably try calling them; the BBB says their number is (585) 798-6077. If that doesn't work, the company website (contact page) URL is:

https://www.bernzomatic.com/Help/Contact-Us

FWIW, I have used similar small propane torches, sometimes burning MAPP gas, to anneal brass objects or more frequently, to silver solder such parts together. Also, I was handloading before I could drive.
 
#4 ·
You need to give more details and probably provide pictures of the work and the torch tip you have. It's hard to give good advice when having to make assumptions.

If I couldn't find other tips for that torch (a common design/model) locally, I'd probably try calling them; the BBB says their number is (585) 798-6077. If that doesn't work, the company website (contact page) URL is:

https://www.bernzomatic.com/Help/Contact-Us

FWIW, I have used similar small propane torches, sometimes burning MAPP gas, to anneal brass objects or more frequently, to silver solder such parts together. Also, I was handloading before I could drive.
Sorry stupid me I didn't post more info on this. Please check the pics below for the overall build of the annealer. But another issue I'm thinking of is that the torch itself is quite robust (so is the flame) in comparison with small sized, compact machine. I have Jumbo torch tip producing swivel flame. I'm from central Europe so it's not that easy to just buy sth from Amazon for few bucks and try more different options. I did find some spare nozzles, but dunno if it's compatible with my torch, Bernzomatic itself doesn't sell these spare parts.


View attachment IMG_8791.jpeg View attachment Snímek obrazovky 2022-02-22 v 13.37.07.jpg View attachment Snímek obrazovky 2022-02-22 v 13.37.59.png
 
#3 · (Edited)
I would just find a different propane torch head. They're cheap enough (a few bucks), that that is gonna be your best bet. I rigged up a brass annealing setup for my own SR handloads, and that's what I did.

(I just took a piece of steel tubing, cut it to length such that only the neck and shoulder of my 223 cases was exposed, and welded it to a piece of 1/4" rod that I chucked into a cordless drill. Set the torch on the edge of a bench, drop a case into the drill/holder setup, run the drill with the flame washing over the case neck until it changes color, then dump it into a bucket of water, lather rinse repeat. It takes a little bit of trial and error -- and a good eye -- to soften the case neck "enough" but not "too much." I've seen automated setups for this, but even if you do a LOT of shooting, you'll never need to do enough annealing, often enough, to justify fabricating a big complicated rig IMHO. Another method is to stand your cases in a shallow pan of water, then anneal the necks. This will prevent you from softening the heads and possibly causing a head separation down the road. The key for me is setting your RS die such that it just "bumps" the shoulder enough to get the case to chamber. If you're constantly moving your shoulder back more than just a few thousandths, you will get thinning of the case near the head and eventual head separation.)
 
#5 ·
There is a valve on your torch,, simply partially close the valve, until the flame is what you desire.

There is no need to run the torch wide open.

The bonus to operating the torch with the valve partially closed is that you will use less fuel.
 
#6 ·
+1

Or angle the torch a bit away from the necks, and/or increase the distance between torch and necks.

In my experience annealing with a propane torch, you are continually having to "chase" the valve anyway -- first the flame is too big, then the flame is too small, and as soon as you think you have it right, then the flame drops down again because it got cold from vaporizing the liquid propane, and if you change the angle of the bottle, the flame gets bigger or smaller...it's a big pain in the neck most of the time.

I can't imagine trying to get a constant flame size with a fixed jig like you have...another reason why I didn't bother making anything too elaborate...
 
#7 · (Edited)
There is not any way to safely modify that tip. That is a manufactured one piece unit and what it has is what get for flame size. Way too much heat for annealing cases.

Don't know much about doing cases but seams from reading it is exactly the same as I do for flaring the end of brass tubing that I do to make shaft bushings for high end r/c race boats. You need to make the flare at the end but not soften any more of the end then is needed to keep flare from splitting.

Copy pasted from search. https://www.24hourcampfire.com/annealing-cases/

Here are the principles of annealing cases:

If you don’t get the brass hot enough to change its grain structure, you’ve wasted your time. If you get it too hot.
A large flame or a wide spread heats too much area too slowly. A single small flame with a sharp tip is necessary.
A hot, hot flame gets the neck end up to the right heat quickly enough to keep the base cool.
 
#8 ·
I've used the big swirl torches for annealing cases...I've also used air-acetylene...it just goes faster and you have to move quicker.

You can see the grain strucure/color of the brass change as the heat moves down into the case. Brass conducts heat very well due to its copper content...

You just have to play with it and get a feel for your setup. Biggest thing to watch out for is overheating it and making it dead soft.