E7018 rod arc stopping suddenly :(

[wiking]

So when you did this, it also stopped short and the arc cut out?

If yes, then either rod is bad batch (unlikely) or machine is faulty.

If no, then whatever amperage you initially set it to (we still don't know what that was), was not enough. This would be evident by the machine not cutting out when you increased the amperage and experienced that scenario you described above.

Hi Oscar, It cuts out every time 1-2 inches of rod then nothing. It never cuts out with 6013 1/8", at 110 amps I get a good weld, up to 5 sticks without much rest. I will try the recommended 7014 soon.

For the 7018 3/32", I set the "indicated" amps at 90, then kept ramping it up. Regardless of power it still cuts out eventually. So strange!

[wiking]

I think the gap was pretty tight really, but will try again and really get it in there. Good suggestion. I can only buy in 5kg boxes here so I am reluctant to buy more rod if the machine may be faulty.

[CAVEMANN]

I doubt that there's an issue with the machine if other rods do fine. I'm assuming that you're aware that the rod will build a ball of slag on the tip when you stop welding, that needs to be knocked off with a file or tapping/striking it on the floor, bench etc. 7018 needs a short arc, I had a hard time when I started with 18. best wishes.

[Jodo]

Seems odd to burn a 13 no problem but stutter and have the arc cut out while welding with a 18. Definately is a rod issue. If there is any local welding shops near by, try to mooch a few 3/32- 7018. I would help you if I were close:-)
Could try put your machine on a load bank. Though it doesn't seem like an OCV issue.
Cheap rods are exactly that. Cheap.

[milomilo]

Check to rod end to see if the metal sits back from the end of the flux. If flux is not past the metal electrode you have a problem with the rods. Get new electrodes.

[52 Ford]

Check to rod end to see if the metal sits back from the end of the flux. If flux is not past the metal electrode you have a problem with the rods. Get new electrodes.

That's clever. I hadn't thought about that.

[wiking]

Check to rod end to see if the metal sits back from the end of the flux. If flux is not past the metal electrode you have a problem with the rods. Get new electrodes.

That does make sense. Just ordered some new rods, the seller says very fresh. Thanks

[wiking]

I bought a box of ESAB E7018 rods. Cooked them for 24 hours, same result- a no go.

I went in to a shop and tested a little Kemppi K2 machine with my ESAB E7018, and it ran perfectly. Nice smooth bead all the way. I measured across the leads with my fluke meter and get 79VDC on the Kemppi, 56VDC on the iWeld. That seems to be the key difference. I paid 500 USD for the Kemppi K2, still a "cheap machine" by most standards. This particular machine is only sold to the Asian market from what I see, but a great box for the price.

Being a nerd, I also put a fluke inductive amp probe around the stinger lead and verified amps under load. This verifies indicated amps is well-calibrated.

**My conclusion is that the very cheap machines suffer from too low a OCV to run E7018.


I would recommend this test to other novice welders- bring a basic multimeter meter when purchasing a cheap welding machine, power it on and probe across the terminals. There is no need to strike the arc, the voltage should be there on power up. If under about 70VDC, E7018 or E6010 may not burn properly.


Cheers

[Oscar]

**My conclusion is that the very cheap machines suffer from too low a OCV to run E7018.

Cheers

The only problem with your conclusion is that OCV is not used to run the electrodes. That's just for starting the arc. Once it starts, the arc voltage tapers down. The OCV is fine, it's just whatever the machine was doing after the arc started was the problem (meaning the machine was the problem).

[smithdoor]

E7018 does take a welding machine to limits.
Someone that use E7018 all time can use most welding machines.

E7018 is typically used when being Xray or other types of testing. It needs to heated over 250°F for hours to dry out the rod. This makes a low hydrogen rod.
If there is water in the rod is not low hydrogen rod.

Now why are you using E7018?.

Dave

I am pretty inexperienced with stick welding first of all. My machine does 1/8" 6013, and 6011 nice and smooth, but 7018 it starts the arc and welds fine, then I suddenly loose the arc after a second or two, and very difficult to restart, it just sticks to the metal. I tried different polarities, upping the amps, keeping gap tight, checking ground, longer arc. Bought new rods from a sealed package, same problem. Dried the rods, preheated the rods, changed electrode holder, changed ground cable, ran the machine with no extension cable. I cranked up the current so high that the metal was almost glowing, all same problem.

My machine is a cheap 250 amps lightweight inverter type, generic Chinese machine. It says 62v open circuit. There is no "arc force" control, just an amperage dial. All I can figure is that OCV is too low for 7018? Maybe I am still getting bad rods?

Any ideas besides throwing this machine in the water?

[wiking]

The only problem with your conclusion is that OCV is not used to run the electrodes. That's just for starting the arc. Once it starts, the arc voltage tapers down. The OCV is fine, it's just whatever the machine was doing after the arc started was the problem (meaning the machine was the problem).

If I was a true nerd I would then have to probe the voltage while welding with both machines. I'm pretty confident the Kemppi, and other quality machines maintain a higher operating voltage after arc strike, enabling the e7018 to keep burning.

[wiking]

E7018 does take a welding machine to limits.
Someone that use E7018 all time can use most welding machines.

E7018 is typically used when being Xray or other types of testing. It needs to heated over 250°F for hours to dry out the rod. This makes a low hydrogen rod.
If there is water in the rod is not low hydrogen rod.

Now why are you using E7018?.

Dave

Good question. In this part of the world (SE Asia) E6013 is the rod people use for just about everything, but I had a lot of trouble doing out of position welds with it. In my welding classes decades ago we used E7018, so I wanted to go back to the familiar rod. I also read it is preferred for my repair job- yacht hull plating. E6010 worked, but the appearance was not as good.

[farmersammm]

At this point, I'd try to fool with every parameter I had control of. Mainly technique, in this situation........you've already messed with the machine in an attempt to make it run.

We all know that 7018 needs a short tight arc. The flux coating should be near touching the steel. You should almost feel it drag. Tighten up the arc, and see how she runs. You'll find a point where you stick the rod if you shove in hard enough. (Conversely.....I hope you're not running too tight of an arc....this will tell ya)

If this doesn't do the trick, see how it behaves when you long arc it. It shouldn't behave well at all. But it should stay lit.

After all this, and it makes no difference, it's probably the machine.

[rexcormack]

Hi Oscar, It cuts out every time 1-2 inches of rod then nothing. It never cuts out with 6013 1/8", at 110 amps I get a good weld, up to 5 sticks without much rest. I will try the recommended 7014 soon.

For the 7018 3/32", I set the "indicated" amps at 90, then kept ramping it up. Regardless of power it still cuts out eventually. So strange!

Is the indicated amps the only thing you change when going from 6013 to 7018?
For example, are you running the 6013 on AC then switching to DC for the 7018?
I agree with others that it is something you are doing, either technique or machine setting.
You may(probably) don't even realize it.
I find I sometimes can't see the forest because the trees are in the way and have to take several big steps back to be able to see the problem!

[smithdoor]

Until 1978 I use E6013 for most work including overhead.
It may just adjustment of welder.

It sounds like you use the rod new out can.
E7018 after opening the can starts to decline.
Try backing some rod in toaster over for few hours then weld with the rod you see change.

Dave

Good question. In this part of the world (SE Asia) E6013 is the rod people use for just about everything, but I had a lot of trouble doing out of position welds with it. In my welding classes decades ago we used E7018, so I wanted to go back to the familiar rod. I also read it is preferred for my repair job- yacht hull plating. E6010 worked, but the appearance was not as good.

[Eelspike]

The statement that 7018 is used mostly for x-ray quality welding is absurd. Most structural stick welding in construction is done with 7018 to the Building D-1.1 Bridge D 1.5, or Earthquake D 1.8 codes field inspection is mostly visual inspection and in the case of full penetration welds visual and then ultrasound testing. The primary sizes of 7018 electrode used are 1/8 and 5/32. The Bridge code test is and x-ray test the building code is a bend test both tests 3g and 4g are 1-inch beveled plate with a backing bar with a 1/4-inch root opening. Some test require x-ray and a bend test. 7018 is the most versatile all around all position welding electrode for mild and low alloy steel it is a fill and freeze rod that has excellent structural properties and the amperage can be adjusted over a fairly wide range to accommodate the position. If you only have 1 rod for steel 7018 is it. We also use a lot of t8 flux core but that's another issue.

[smithdoor]

Sounds like you in California Xray and ultrasound country?

Back in 1970's and 1980's you not see Fluxcore on job site unless very large job.

Today if I was to go job site it would only be E71T-11 or E71T-8. Unless I was being paid by the hour then E7018.
I did not see on specifation Building D-1.1 until after the North Ridge Earthquake. Before that the spec showed only use E70XX.

But had do it over again I stay with repair where made more money 💰 and no one try find a mistake to hang the welder.

Doing line boring and welding I had where call to travel 400 miles with motel paid for with at less 3 days labor. At time I tie up on a large hangar door job and could not leave.

Dave

The statement that 7018 is used mostly for x-ray quality welding is absurd. Most structural stick welding in construction is done with 7018 to the Building D-1.1 Bridge D 1.5, or Earthquake D 1.8 codes field inspection is mostly visual inspection and in the case of full penetration welds visual and then ultrasound testing. The primary sizes of 7018 electrode used are 1/8 and 5/32. The Bridge code test is and x-ray test the building code is a bend test both tests 3g and 4g are 1-inch beveled plate with a backing bar with a 1/4-inch root opening. Some test require x-ray and a bend test. 7018 is the most versatile all around all position welding electrode for mild and low alloy steel it is a fill and freeze rod that has excellent structural properties and the amperage can be adjusted over a fairly wide range to accommodate the position. If you only have 1 rod for steel 7018 is it. We also use a lot of t8 flux core but that's another issue.

[MinnesotaDave]

E7018 is typically used when being Xray or other types of testing. It needs to heated over 250°F for hours to dry out the rod. This makes a low hydrogen rod.
If there is water in the rod is not low hydrogen rod.


Dave

This is incorrect.

250°F is the storage temperature.

Reconditioning is done for 1 hour at 650 to 750°F (340 to 400°C)

(per Lincoln)

[smithdoor]

Ok it been some time for numbers
Yes it was a mistake chemo brain
Thank you for correct information 👍.

Dave

This is incorrect.

250°F is the storage temperature.

Reconditioning is done for 1 hour at 650 to 750°F (340 to 400°C)

(per Lincoln)

[Welder Dave]

As it should be common knowledge, 7018 is the strongest of the basic mild steel/low alloy rods. It doesn't have to be kept in an oven to still be the strongest rod!!! E71T-11 would never be specified for anything structural, ever!!! It gets really annoying reading this same crap over and over and over again from someone who thinks tensile strength is the definitive way to measure weld/rod strength.

[wiking]

Is the indicated amps the only thing you change when going from 6013 to 7018?
For example, are you running the 6013 on AC then switching to DC for the 7018?
I agree with others that it is something you are doing, either technique or machine setting.
You may(probably) don't even realize it.
I find I sometimes can't see the forest because the trees are in the way and have to take several big steps back to be able to see the problem!

My 160 dollar iWeld inverter machine has one setting, Amps. DC only. Given that I can run E7018 with my new Kenppi machine just fine, I still think the cheap machine is at fault.

* But than again, a poor craftsman does blame his tools, so it remains possible that a skilled professional could run E7018 on any machine. I will stand by my recommendation for a novice welder to not try it.

[M J D]

As it should be common knowledge, 7018 is the strongest of the basic mild steel/low alloy rods. It doesn't have to be kept in an oven to still be the strongest rod!!! E71T-11 would never be specified for anything structural, ever!!! It gets really annoying reading this same crap over and over and over again from someone who thinks tensile strength is the definitive way to measure weld/rod strength.

That's not entirely true of 7018. 12018 would be the strongest low alloy electrode.

[Oscar]

That's not entirely true of 7018. 12018 would be the strongest low alloy electrode.

Well he did say "basic", by which I interpret to mean that it is commonly available at most hardware stores. In which case his statement does make sense.

[wiking]

Until 1978 I use E6013 for most work including overhead.
It may just adjustment of welder.

It sounds like you use the rod new out can.
E7018 after opening the can starts to decline.
Try backing some rod in toaster over for few hours then weld with the rod you see change.

Dave

I do have a portable rod oven (single temperature), and make good use of it with E7018. Here in the tropical humidity, the little oven actually makes steam come out the top with a load of E7018, we have to crack the lid to let it out.

[M J D]

Well he did say "basic", by which I interpret to mean that it is commonly available at most hardware stores. In which case his statement does make sense.

Only if you use hardware store electrodes. I've found pricing to be better dealing with LWS, and they typically carry the more common low alloy,( probably not 12018).