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Thread: Help Design a winch mount for a dump trailer

  1. #26
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    Re: Help Design a winch mount for a dump trailer

    Quote Originally Posted by Reebz View Post
    I see I made a typo. It will have 2x2 1/4 wall on the inside of the bed as well as on the outside. I left out I will have a vertical brace on the in side as well to avoid compressional forces. That is the style pulley I will buy or make. He has old snatch blocks to work with.
    I imagine TWO 2x2 1/4 wall to be stout enough
    That should work. Just out of curiosity, which winch do you plan to use, or is it too early to decide that now?

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    Re: Help Design a winch mount for a dump trailer

    I have no knowledge of winches. Looks big to me. LOL
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    Re: Help Design a winch mount for a dump trailer

    He hauls about 80 horses and cows a week. That does not include deer, and pigs. One farm has 4,000 dairy cows on piece of land. Note its big land

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    Re: Help Design a winch mount for a dump trailer

    This is the route I would go.....



    The only thing I would change is to raise the height of the pulley at least another foot or two, and create an A-frame to support it instead of just using one length of vertical tubing or channel.

    The higher you can get your re-direct pulley, the better it will be when you're dragging a dead cow or other heavyweight lump. Friction against the ground really adds to the struggle, and a little angle to the pulling line will help more than most people think.

    The A-frame support also spreads the load out a bit more. Even with the top rim of the trailer reinforced a bit, having all the load right there at the center point is just asking for a failure, imo. I keep thinking about the drag factor of trying to pull a thousand-pound steer through the muck and mire just to get it to the ramps. Maybe that's not how your buddy does it, though, so.....

    As soon as I saw the pic, I thought it'd be neat and simple to just mimic the triangular look of the trailer's tongue.

    Definitely think about a reinforced anchor point inside the trailer so you can run a snatch block off the animal you're dragging.

    The cable goes from the winch out to a snatch block strapped to the critter, and then back to the anchor point on the trailer. This doubles the pulling force of the winch, theoretically, but requires twice as much cable to be spun out. I don't know how your buddy operates and if he can get close enough to spool out that much line, etc. Something to think about, though.

    Even without a running pulley in the equation, having the re-direct elevated a couple feet above the rail will make it easier to get the beef up the ramp because by the time it's there the leading end will be lifted off the ground a hair by the winch line. Make sense?

    Just draw a straight line from where you're going to have that re-direct pulley to where the animal will first contact the ramps. Will the line be pulling it too straight in? Will there be rubbing anywhere, like on the corner at the ramp hinge?

    Every inch you elevate that re-direct pulley above the rail will change the angle of the cable slightly, and that tiny change can really make a big difference when the deadweight is being pulled across the ground and up that transition zone into the trailer bed.

  5. #30
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    Re: Help Design a winch mount for a dump trailer

    Quote Originally Posted by Reebz View Post
    I have no knowledge of winches. Looks big to me. LOL
    I think a 6k winch will be way more than enough.
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  7. #31
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    Re: Help Design a winch mount for a dump trailer

    Quote Originally Posted by mla2ofus View Post
    I think a 6k winch will be way more than enough.
    Another thing to consider is the duty cycle of the winch, some of the cheaper winches like HARBOR FREIGHT BAD LANDS WINCHES only have a a 20% duty cycle at full load, it seems that every store has it's own brand.

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  8. #32
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    Re: Help Design a winch mount for a dump trailer

    Quote Originally Posted by Reebz View Post
    I have no knowledge of winches. Looks big to me. LOL
    That should work.
    I have a 9k WARN on my jeep and it will pull a horse a cow and 2 donkeys.

    That 12k will do fine.

    Just make sure its wired properly and has a direct hot lead to the running vehicle. Or a deep cycle batt at a minimum
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  9. #33
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    Re: Help Design a winch mount for a dump trailer

    VaughnT
    Do you mean like this?
    I like the idea of raising the pulley, but I fear the leverage.
    I think I will make the frame flush with the sheet metal. To add strength I will tubing on top of the tubing lapping it on to the original frame or "scabbing it on the ends". Hard to explain. The purple shows the scabbed on pieces.
    I was going to work on it today but the new transmission on his truck broke down again. He said "I got to get 12 cows today with a wheel barrow'. I'm not sure how he loads with out a winch
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  10. #34
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    Re: Help Design a winch mount for a dump trailer

    Quote Originally Posted by Reebz View Post
    VaughnT

    Do you mean like this?
    I like the idea of raising the pulley, but I fear the leverage.
    I would think the frame would need to resist both downward and front-back forces so the pulley would mount on top of something like this, with red symbolizing the upward (which could instead be the Cross bracing you already planned, modified to go higher) and blue showing the fore-back bracing.

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  12. #35
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    Re: Help Design a winch mount for a dump trailer

    Name:  winch mount.JPG
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Size:  66.2 KB You don't need steel all over the place. Just mount the tubing inside the bed. Weld the plate to the sheet metal, then weld the tubing to the plate. 3/16 plate ought to do.

    The sheet metal is plenty strong in the orientation you're looking at. All of the strength comes from the sides, not the front of the box. It will resist torque if plated to spread the load over a larger surface.................and the tubing,, in turn, resists torque.

    Why resistance to torque? A winch isn't always pulling straight............it pulls up, and from side to side. Tubing resists force on all axis.

    Put all those pulleys on, and you have problems if it isn't a straight line pull. And, if the bed is up..........now you're running a ton of line, plus your tongue mounted winch is now trying to pull off the tongue upwards.

    Keep everything in the bed, and you're golden. If the dood uses the trailer for trash, an such.......make the mount so the winch comes off easy.....your receiver tube.

  13. #36
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    Re: Help Design a winch mount for a dump trailer

    Quote Originally Posted by farmersammm View Post
    Name:  winch mount.JPG
Views: 175
Size:  66.2 KB You don't need steel all over the place. Just mount the tubing inside the bed. Weld the plate to the sheet metal, then weld the tubing to the plate. 3/16 plate ought to do.

    The sheet metal is plenty strong in the orientation you're looking at. All of the strength comes from the sides, not the front of the box. It will resist torque if plated to spread the load over a larger surface.................and the tubing,, in turn, resists torque.

    Why resistance to torque? A winch isn't always pulling straight............it pulls up, and from side to side. Tubing resists force on all axis.

    Put all those pulleys on, and you have problems if it isn't a straight line pull. And, if the bed is up..........now you're running a ton of line, plus your tongue mounted winch is now trying to pull off the tongue upwards.

    Keep everything in the bed, and you're golden. If the dood uses the trailer for trash, an such.......make the mount so the winch comes off easy.....your receiver tube.
    Pretty much all this, and if the winch is pulling down on the front of the box with the bed raised, what does that do to the hoist?

  14. #37
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    Re: Help Design a winch mount for a dump trailer

    BTW...........a 2x2x.250 piece of tubing is less strong than a 3x5x11ga piece of tubing. Structural elements are all about dimensions, not necessarily wall thickness. .250 tubing is 5.9lbs/ft.............3x5x11ga is 6.2lbs/ft

    Fabricating is all about sizing your elements. You can always go heavier (3/16) which doesn't hurt..........11ga is your minimum. Steel costs money nowdays, it's not like it was 2yrs ago. You can work with less.

  15. #38
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    Re: Help Design a winch mount for a dump trailer

    Quote Originally Posted by Reebz View Post
    VaughnT
    Do you mean like this? I like the idea of raising the pulley, but I fear the leverage.
    Old Iron nailed it with his design. I like how you've drawn the A-frame and that's what I was thinking. The bed of the trailer offers some strength and the material you're using is plenty strong, but will the entire wall just cave in after a few cows have been tugged on? Old Iron's design takes care of that by bringing the A-frame back to the tongue.

    The pulley is going to be under a lot of forces, so you need bracing all around. The welds will do a lot to transfer some of the load to the bed rails on the trailer, but is everything strong enough to take the load it's going to get? Especially if you're talking a dozen dead cows, one after another. You'll have to be the judge of that because I honestly have no clue.

    Getting the re-direct pulley up higher off the rail will pay dividends on the first pull, but it has to be supported properly so you don't get that catastrophic failure you're worried about.

    Don't forget, too, that you need a guide in front of the pulley to keep the cable on track as you reel it back in. Your friend isn't going to be pulling straight in, and even a little off-angle tug will cause an un-guided wire to pop right out of the groove on the pulley. This can be something as simple as a heavy steel "funnel" plate turned vertical instead of the standard horizontal configuration.

    Name:  s-l300.jpg
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    Something like the above design would work well so long as the guide is right smack in front of the pulley and the slot is oriented vertically. I'd be tempted to put a roller guide farther out so it could guide the wire smoothly into the hole'd plate that then guides the wire into the pulley proper. Less rubbing on the cable with rollers.

    Sounds complicated, but one tug without a guide will make for a ton of mess.


    Quote Originally Posted by Oldiron2 View Post
    I would think the frame would need to resist both downward and front-back forces so the pulley would mount on top of something like this, with red symbolizing the upward (which could instead be the Cross bracing you already planned, modified to go higher) and blue showing the fore-back bracing.

    Name:  A-Frame on trailer.png
Views: 184
Size:  726.7 KB

  16. #39
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    Re: Help Design a winch mount for a dump trailer

    Quote Originally Posted by VaughnT View Post
    Old Iron nailed it with his design. I like how you've drawn the A-frame and that's what I was thinking. The bed of the trailer offers some strength and the material you're using is plenty strong, but will the entire wall just cave in after a few cows have been tugged on? Old Iron's design takes care of that by bringing the A-frame back to the tongue.

    The pulley is going to be under a lot of forces, so you need bracing all around. The welds will do a lot to transfer some of the load to the bed rails on the trailer, but is everything strong enough to take the load it's going to get? Especially if you're talking a dozen dead cows, one after another. You'll have to be the judge of that because I honestly have no clue.

    Getting the re-direct pulley up higher off the rail will pay dividends on the first pull, but it has to be supported properly so you don't get that catastrophic failure you're worried about.

    Don't forget, too, that you need a guide in front of the pulley to keep the cable on track as you reel it back in. Your friend isn't going to be pulling straight in, and even a little off-angle tug will cause an un-guided wire to pop right out of the groove on the pulley. This can be something as simple as a heavy steel "funnel" plate turned vertical instead of the standard horizontal configuration.

    Name:  s-l300.jpg
Views: 166
Size:  12.0 KB

    Something like the above design would work well so long as the guide is right smack in front of the pulley and the slot is oriented vertically. I'd be tempted to put a roller guide farther out so it could guide the wire smoothly into the hole'd plate that then guides the wire into the pulley proper. Less rubbing on the cable with rollers.

    Sounds complicated, but one tug without a guide will make for a ton of mess.
    I use a very small electric winch for one man wood splitting. The blocks too big to lift, I use grab tongs & the winch hung on chain from the backhoe. No fairlead is needed because the shackle the winch hangs from is directly opposite the cable direction. Chain allows it to swivel & always face the load. It can lift a 200 LB block from anywhere the pile is.
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  18. #40
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    Re: Help Design a winch mount for a dump trailer

    I would mount the pulley in the bed of the trailer, just inside the headboard, and just high enough that the pulley does not drag on the floor of the trailer.
    Virtually 100% of the "strength" issues goes away. A simple bracket of angle, or bar steel will be adequate to hold the pulley.
    Then, I would cut a hole in the headboard, and run the cable through the headboard. The cable will only be a few inches above the floor.

    If you want to have the ability to pull from an elevated angle, simply raise the bed. You can get the cable pulling from over 6 feet high if you desire.

    I have a dump trailer, 10 foot bed. almost every time I load something by driving, or dragging into the bed, I lift the bed to get the best angle for my advantage.

    I have had this dump trailer for 23 years, there is little that I have not loaded, unloaded, or hauled.



    Raising the bed simplifies every loading operation, except maybe dumping stone or other loose material into the trailer,,,

    Even when moving furniture, it is easier to raise the bed. That lowers the back of the trailer slightly, making it easier for the loaders.
    They can load by only having to lift to the lowered height of the back of the trailer. THEN the item can be moved forward into the trailer.

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    Re: Help Design a winch mount for a dump trailer

    Everything in this world can be distilled down to 3 things. Beams, columns, and levers. That's it boys(shrug)

    I just put up some drawings which show mounting a beam inside the trailer. Cheap, easy, fast.

    Here's another approach where the beam is mounted outside the trailer. Same thing, just outside.

    That triangular bit of sheet metal hanging over the front of the trailer is simply a beam(it's considered a built up beam). The columns, if you will, are the long sides of the trailer. It's the sides of the trailer that resist the force, not the sheet metal front panel of the dump body itself.

    This stuff ain't rocket science.

  20. #42
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    Re: Help Design a winch mount for a dump trailer

    I think sweet's idea is best. I just can't figure some designs with the A frame attached to the tongue and the winch on the box which means you'd have to feed out cable at the same time the box is raising. If I'm interpreting old iron's design right you can't raise the box. Wouldn't the vertical post have to be mounted on the crossmember in order to raise the box? You could mounI something like truckers use to control air hoses and light cable to control the excess power cable for the winch while raising the box. can't believe some winch co. hasn't designed a fairlead with one roller under adjustable spring tension to keep the cable from snarling up on the drum when theres no tension on the cable.
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  21. #43
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    Re: Help Design a winch mount for a dump trailer

    Quote Originally Posted by mla2ofus View Post
    I think sweet's idea is best. I just can't figure some designs with the A frame attached to the tongue and the winch on the box which means you'd have to feed out cable at the same time the box is raising. If I'm interpreting old iron's design right you can't raise the box. Wouldn't the vertical post have to be mounted on the crossmember in order to raise the box? You could mounI something like truckers use to control air hoses and light cable to control the excess power cable for the winch while raising the box. can't believe some winch co. hasn't designed a fairlead with one roller under adjustable spring tension to keep the cable from snarling up on the drum when theres no tension on the cable.
    I just figured he'd put the winch in free spool when lifting.

    The product that keeps the cable from snarling without weight is called a winch wire rope tensioner.
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    Re: Help Design a winch mount for a dump trailer

    I don't understand the comments one above (Post 42) or sweets ones about raising the bed.
    Regarding having the winch inside the bed or running the cable through the lower front wall, that would allow only retrieving one animal per trip, since the first would block further recoveries. Having the cable coming down from the top of the front wall allows it to go over the first animal when recovering another.

    I agree with Willie's cable guide comment; see Post 5 again.

    There are multiple ways of dealing with the small details such as material sizing; in my work, it often depends on what's at hand or can quickly be scrounged. I leave those details to the OP, unless he specifically asks.



    .
    Last edited by Oldiron2; 04-22-2022 at 11:24 AM.

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    Re: Help Design a winch mount for a dump trailer

    Quote Originally Posted by John T View Post
    This will also increase the pulling power of the winch.
    No. One fixed pulley only changes direction of the pull. A moving pulley doubles the pull.

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  26. #46
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    Re: Help Design a winch mount for a dump trailer

    Quote Originally Posted by cwby View Post
    No. One fixed pulley only changes direction of the pull. A moving pulley doubles the pull.
    Yes I understand that and have addressed it.

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    Re: Help Design a winch mount for a dump trailer

    Quote Originally Posted by farmersammm View Post
    Everything in this world can be distilled down to 3 things. Beams, columns, and levers. ...
    .
    If so, your world is very limited. Mine includes things that don't fit your categories, including Ideas, Food, Music and visual Beauty....

  28. #48
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    Re: Help Design a winch mount for a dump trailer

    The more I think about what he is using it for, the more I'm convinced I'd want a gantry crane trailer set up.

    Similar to how a septic tank hauling truck is made.

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    Re: Help Design a winch mount for a dump trailer

    Quote Originally Posted by John T View Post

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    Yes please.
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    Re: Help Design a winch mount for a dump trailer

    Quote Originally Posted by John T View Post
    Yes I understand that and have addressed it.

    Do I need to call my beer wench for you?
    Sorry - I was late to the party!

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