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Thread: Gas shielded flux core wire choices for Argon/Co2 75-25 in .045

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    Gas shielded flux core wire choices for Argon/Co2 75-25 in .045

    I'm running my trusty old Millermatic 200 that I bought new in the mid 80s. I ran a lot of ESAB 1/16 Flux Core (gas) with with Co2 on construction at the WTC Transportation Hub and really loved the way the welds went in hot fast and clean compared the standard no gas flux core we normally use in construction. The flux no gas stuff is good and fast too but the dual shield stuff was like pressing the easy button. The company brought in the gas because the inspection was so rigorous and the ESAB Coreshield 8 (5/64) wasn't cutting it. I know a lot of welders didn't love the core shield 8 compared the lincoln Innershield NR-233 or the hobart xlr-8 witch are all the same class flux core wires, of those 3 straight polarity wires i always thought the lincoln was the most consistent but you could find the sweet spot with each and do fine.

    Now that i'm setting the old millermatic up and i want to find the best option for a flux core gas wire that works with 75-25. It looks like a top contender is the Lincoln UltraCore® 71A85 which comes in 15 lb spools .045. I can run the bare wire fine but i just know that the out of position work comes out sweet with the flux gas combo. My welding needs for projects are building trailers, jigs a homebrew sawmill, mixed steel and wood slab furniture, aluminum skiff building. I might also use flux gas setup might to build a small work barge.

    I would love to hear any opinions and experience on the ultra core and any others I see Blue Demon which i never really heard of has some too.

    Those are a couple of dual shield full penetration welds from back in 2011 at ground zero reconstruction. Probably 4-inches thick with cooper-heat the first one has a buildup because the joint was out of plain all the welds were flush ground.

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  2. #2
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    Re: Gas shielded flux core wire choices for Argon/Co2 75-25 in .045

    My favorite gas shielded flux core is the Lincoln 71M. It runs on C25 or pure CO2. https://www.lincolnelectric.com/asse...d71M/c3101.pdf

    The 71A85 doesn't run so hot on C25 gas, despite what they say. Willie B has struggled with 71A85 wire on his millermatic 252. The 71M also comes in 0.035 diameter wire which may be useful for you in case the MM200 doesn't have the balls to run 71M in 045 (which honestly, I think that machine is borderline 71M in 045).
    Miller Multimatic 255

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    Re: Gas shielded flux core wire choices for Argon/Co2 75-25 in .045

    I've had good luck with esab 7100 ultra in .045. I use 75/25 gas as well. Esab wire, at least from my supplier is considerably less expensive than Lincoln wire

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    Re: Gas shielded flux core wire choices for Argon/Co2 75-25 in .045

    I have heard good things about ESAB Dual Shield wires, I have to try a roll.
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    Re: Gas shielded flux core wire choices for Argon/Co2 75-25 in .045

    I haven't used too much flux core but I'm on an 18kg roll of Lincoln Outershield 71E-H in 045 and it's very, very easy stuff to run.
    Edit: using it with trimix equivelent to 80/20
    Last edited by Munkul; 05-04-2022 at 10:52 AM.
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    Re: Gas shielded flux core wire choices for Argon/Co2 75-25 in .045

    From 1980 to 2004 I use E71T-1 0.052" with CO2 for all shop welding. It good if your welds could be xray someday.

    I used CO2 as keep cost down and buy 50 to 60 pound coils about 5 coils at time.

    Dave

    Quote Originally Posted by Eelspike View Post
    I'm running my trusty old Millermatic 200 that I bought new in the mid 80s. I ran a lot of ESAB 1/16 Flux Core (gas) with with Co2 on construction at the WTC Transportation Hub and really loved the way the welds went in hot fast and clean compared the standard no gas flux core we normally use in construction. The flux no gas stuff is good and fast too but the dual shield stuff was like pressing the easy button. The company brought in the gas because the inspection was so rigorous and the ESAB Coreshield 8 (5/64) wasn't cutting it. I know a lot of welders didn't love the core shield 8 compared the lincoln Innershield NR-233 or the hobart xlr-8 witch are all the same class flux core wires, of those 3 straight polarity wires i always thought the lincoln was the most consistent but you could find the sweet spot with each and do fine.

    Now that i'm setting the old millermatic up and i want to find the best option for a flux core gas wire that works with 75-25. It looks like a top contender is the Lincoln UltraCore® 71A85 which comes in 15 lb spools .045. I can run the bare wire fine but i just know that the out of position work comes out sweet with the flux gas combo. My welding needs for projects are building trailers, jigs a homebrew sawmill, mixed steel and wood slab furniture, aluminum skiff building. I might also use flux gas setup might to build a small work barge.

    I would love to hear any opinions and experience on the ultra core and any others I see Blue Demon which i never really heard of has some too.

    Those are a couple of dual shield full penetration welds from back in 2011 at ground zero reconstruction. Probably 4-inches thick with cooper-heat the first one has a buildup because the joint was out of plain all the welds were flush ground.

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    Re: Gas shielded flux core wire choices for Argon/Co2 75-25 in .045

    On most of the construction projects the flux core no gas worked fine and the ESAB 1/16 wire with the gas was really good at the trade center witch was a bridge code D 1.5 fracture critical job with a lot of extra oversight. We were running mostly Miller XMT 350s with LN 25s but a few of the Miller digital readout feeders. Lately we get XMT 450s and full digital control at the feeder which is great. The Co2 was a pain with the heaters stop freezing going out and all the wind shielding false work we had to do but it welds clean.

    I know the MM 200 is under gunned but the .045 with the core probably has about the same metal as .035 bare wire. The Lincoln comes in smaller spools so that's attractive to start. It the same with the Co2 I would just as soon deal with the C25 that have to get Co2. Not looking to do real production and if that becomes important I would get a bigger inverter setup. Have 300 amp stick and tig capacity already.

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    Re: Gas shielded flux core wire choices for Argon/Co2 75-25 in .045

    Quote Originally Posted by Eelspike View Post
    I know the MM 200 is under gunned but the .045 with the core probably has about the same metal as .035 bare wire. The Lincoln comes in smaller spools so that's attractive to start. It the same with the Co2 I would just as soon deal with the C25 that have to get Co2. Not looking to do real production and if that becomes important I would get a bigger inverter setup. Have 300 amp stick and tig capacity already.
    Either way you are making a good choice. The 71M can run with either 100% CO2 or 75/25 and actually comes in the small 11 lb spools in both 035 and 045, just so you know. Dual shield is my favorite if I have to run out of position.
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    Re: Gas shielded flux core wire choices for Argon/Co2 75-25 in .045

    That MM200 will do fine with .045 dual shield. Bonus with the 75/25 gas is less voltage is required to run it. The downfall to 75/25 is that it doesn't have the same cooling effect regarding duty cycle on the mig gun as CO2 has more effective cooling.

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    Re: Gas shielded flux core wire choices for Argon/Co2 75-25 in .045

    I've run the Blue Demon 71M on Argon/CO2, and just 100% CO2 in both the .035", and .045" sizes. Both sizes ran well on both my inverter mig, and my transformer mig machine. I ususally get it from Mcmaster-Carr in the 10 lb spool. Some people don't like it , not sure why. I've also run the Praxair store brand wire, which ran well also. Even the really cheap-o stuff (welders choice) from MSCDirect ran well for me. I've only run one spool of lincoln .035" but I don't remember the exact number, seemed to weld the same as the others.

    My biggest problem with wire is storage. I'll wind up with half a roll leftover, and it will go bad out in my garage by the next time I need it (corrosion).
    I keep meaning to put it in a ziplok bag with a dessicant pack, but sadly, I hardly ever do.

    good luck
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    Re: Gas shielded flux core wire choices for Argon/Co2 75-25 in .045

    Thanks, a lot of useful replies! The fabrication work i anticipate is not very demanding but it's good to have all the opinions on the gas shielded flux core. I will try the Lincoln UltraCore® 71A85 wire first just because Lincoln has done so much for American Arc Welding education. I feel the millermatic 200 will push .045 ok for my needs but i will find out.

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    Re: Gas shielded flux core wire choices for Argon/Co2 75-25 in .045

    I had a terrible time with 71A85 using 75% argon. I finally used up the roll & replaced it. The guy at Maine Oxy said it won't work with 75% gas He sold me Lincoln 71A75 & I've had a much better experience.Name:  Vertical.jpg
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    Damn, I can't make it vertical in the photo.
    Last edited by Willie B; 05-04-2022 at 08:32 PM.
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    Re: Gas shielded flux core wire choices for Argon/Co2 75-25 in .045

    Wow great thread didn’t know you could do that
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    Re: Gas shielded flux core wire choices for Argon/Co2 75-25 in .045

    The Esab website has pretty good descriptions on what wires work with what gasses . If I remember they have plenty of choices in the dual shield category. Have run .045 in co2 with esab 7100 in MM200 with good results.

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    Re: Gas shielded flux core wire choices for Argon/Co2 75-25 in .045

    Quote Originally Posted by NotaVegetarian View Post
    Wow great thread didn’t know you could do that
    Yeah, dual shield flux core is a great tool for a wire feed welder, especially for heavier material and out of position stuff. It has weld qualities as good as or better than 7018 welding rod, but without having to change rods every 8-12 inches, and it is much easier to run vertical up and overhead than 7018. The 035 wire extends the range/capability of 175-200 amp consumer grade MIG welding machines quite a bit for thick stuff



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    Re: Gas shielded flux core wire choices for Argon/Co2 75-25 in .045

    I agree 👍

    Dave

    Quote Originally Posted by Louie1961 View Post
    Yeah, dual shield flux core is a great tool for a wire feed welder, especially for heavier material and out of position stuff. It has weld qualities as good as or better than 7018 welding rod, but without having to change rods every 8-12 inches, and it is much easier to run vertical up and overhead than 7018. The 035 wire extends the range/capability of 175-200 amp consumer grade MIG welding machines quite a bit for thick stuff




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    Re: Gas shielded flux core wire choices for Argon/Co2 75-25 in .045

    I started using in 1980 for shop work E71T-1 w/CO2. It replaced E7018 for all shop welding.

    If everything is right the flux will peal off after cooling.

    Dave

    Quote Originally Posted by NotaVegetarian View Post
    Wow great thread didn’t know you could do that

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    Re: Gas shielded flux core wire choices for Argon/Co2 75-25 in .045

    That second video nails it on the vertical stringer and the cross section cut show it well, he also shows exactly what's up with the worm tracks when they show up shave a bit of voltage. We had tapered nozzles for doing root passes which helped too.

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    Re: Gas shielded flux core wire choices for Argon/Co2 75-25 in .045

    Thanks for my use because it can be pretty sporadic storage is an important consideration so the 10-15 pound spools are best. I know for work welding large verticals I got it set to run nice fat stringers really clean a well tied in.

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    Re: Gas shielded flux core wire choices for Argon/Co2 75-25 in .045

    Sorry to change the subject slightly, but would you be able to run dual shield .035 on a Hobart 190? Haven’t found much information on that.

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    Re: Gas shielded flux core wire choices for Argon/Co2 75-25 in .045

    Should run but it is probably sort of in the low end of the parameters. If the machine runs .035 bare wire well it should do fine with .035 dual shield. I ran a lot of bare wire before running the dual shield and i think it's easier to run particularly for out of position work but there is a learning curve and a few rules like verticals must be run uphill and don't let the flux get ahead of the puddle.
    Last edited by Eelspike; 05-06-2022 at 05:08 AM.

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    Re: Gas shielded flux core wire choices for Argon/Co2 75-25 in .045

    Name:  hammerhead.jpg
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Size:  81.9 KB That's a pretty horizontal welded with ESAB Dual Shield welding by two shifts. 9 inches thick with cooper heat keeping it at around 350 deg f. I kept trying to stack it in vertical but the day welders kept sloping it.

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    Re: Gas shielded flux core wire choices for Argon/Co2 75-25 in .045

    Quote Originally Posted by AgDawg15 View Post
    Sorry to change the subject slightly, but would you be able to run dual shield .035 on a Hobart 190? Haven’t found much information on that.
    I've run .035" gas shielded wire on several 180-200 amp mig welders and it runs good on 1/8" to about 1/4" material. I've used it on dock leveling plates, staircases, cardboard compactors, truck dock bumpers, dumpsters, etc. Most of the time I've used it outside with straight CO2 mostly, and sometimes 75/25. They have all held up, even the ones done outdoors ( I bump the gas up a few CFH ) I prefer it on repair work because it burns in hot, works well in all positions, and seems to be more tolerant of some contamination. To me it seems like 7018 on a roll. It is a little bit difficult to find in 10# rolls from some distributors, and it costs a little more. If you really need it, it's worth the extra effort and price.

    Try some , you might like it.

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    Re: Gas shielded flux core wire choices for Argon/Co2 75-25 in .045

    Have found the contamination to be a minor inconvenience as well. Didn't want to mention it as it may have been lucky...not 6010 like but pretty tolerant

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    Re: Gas shielded flux core wire choices for Argon/Co2 75-25 in .045

    I have been using Kiswel E71T-M from Amazon. Comes in 10 lb rolls and is about $3.50/lb vs over $7/lb for the Lincoln wire from LWS.

    So far so good as long as I keep the gas CFH high enough, and stickout correct. But I haven't tried any other dual shield wire so I have nothing the compare it to.

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