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Thread: How would you weld this broken cast iron part?

  1. #1
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    How would you weld this broken cast iron part?

    This is from some old piece of flat belt driven farm machinery-a linkage of some sort.
    I made a replacement on the mill out of mild steel, but would like to weld or braze the original. The middle break is recent and clean,the pin on the end is an old break. The section thickness is about 1/4"- 1/2" thick. The break on the end is 5/8" diameter. No experience with any cast iron welding or brazing, have a O/A rig, and AC-DC tig to use.
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    Re: How would you weld this broken cast iron part?

    I would use brazing and per heat.
    It works the best on old cast iron.

    Dave

    Quote Originally Posted by stoneaxe View Post
    This is from some old piece of flat belt driven farm machinery-a linkage of some sort.
    I made a replacement on the mill out of mild steel, but would like to weld or braze the original. The middle break is recent and clean,the pin on the end is an old break. The section thickness is about 1/4"- 1/2" thick. The break on the end is 5/8" diameter. No experience with any cast iron welding or brazing, have a O/A rig, and AC-DC tig to use.
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    Re: How would you weld this broken cast iron part?

    Instead of brazing with a bronze alloy, I might use a Nickel-silver alloy like All-State 11, which is thin flowing at the higher temperature (more like silver-soldering). First apply the correct flux (here All-State #1) to the surfaces (IIRC, as a thin water or EtOH suspension),fit tightly together, make a jig to hold the parts in that position, and heat with OA torch until alloy wicks into the crack, adding enough to cover all the internal break surface.

    Brazing, if done as above, will keep both the original contour and the surface texture and won't require any build-up on the surface to get the needed strength. I've used the process on tool steel, but not on any large cast iron parts.

    Here are pages from an old (1967) All-State catalog showing it. The same or similar alloy is also sold by other companies, but I don't recall which at the moment.

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    Re: How would you weld this broken cast iron part?

    My typical goto glue for cast is brazing. You can stick weld the part with nickel rods, too. Do not use nomacast. Not sure what you goal is, just service vs restoration? I have o/a cast iron rods, I have never been successful using them.

    I will have to try the All-state 11, looks interesting. I keep bronze and safety-silv 45 around. Stock up when prices dip. The all state stuff is $92/lb.

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    Re: How would you weld this broken cast iron part?

    Quote Originally Posted by tapwelder View Post
    My typical goto glue for cast is brazing. You can stick weld the part with nickel rods, too. Do not use nomacast. Not sure what you goal is, just service vs restoration? I have o/a cast iron rods, I have never been successful using them.

    I will have to try the All-state 11, looks interesting. I keep bronze and safety-silv 45 around. Stock up when prices dip. The all state stuff is $92/lb.
    I'm thinking it might be an antique such as would be displayed at county fairs and such, hence making the part look as close to original as possible.

    That All-State 11 comes in smaller than pound containers, I think. If used as suggested, one rod goes a long way.

    Long ago, I repaired the broken handle of a #203 Champion Post Drill (a stock picture of one posted recently in another thread) and fixed it by welding (details forgotten over time) so that it looks original, except for lacking the original cast texture; it's a bit too smooth.

    BTW, Tapwelder; A-S #11 is good for repairing large broken drills, end mills and Taps...

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    Re: How would you weld this broken cast iron part?

    Quote Originally Posted by Oldiron2 View Post
    I'm thinking it might be an antique such as would be displayed at county fairs and such, hence making the part look as close to original as possible.
    This is correct. The replacement I made is serviceable, but lacks the thin contoured sections and look of the original.

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    Re: How would you weld this broken cast iron part?

    I have used a needle scaler to put a cast texture back into a repaired area, with excellent results.

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    Re: How would you weld this broken cast iron part?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tool Junkie View Post
    I have used a needle scaler to put a cast texture back into a repaired area, with excellent results.
    I had thought of that, but don't own (or normally need) one. I once did look into the availability of electric ones, but the price was very high, more than I could justify, and the air versions seem too inefficient.
    Another method I considered was blasting with very large grit, but never got beyond the thinking stage.

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    Re: How would you weld this broken cast iron part?

    Quote Originally Posted by Oldiron2 View Post
    I had thought of that, but don't own (or normally need) one. I once did look into the availability of electric ones, but the price was very high, more than I could justify, and the air versions seem too inefficient.
    Another method I considered was blasting with very large grit, but never got beyond the thinking stage.
    A $25 cheap import needle scaler will get the job done nicely.
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    Re: How would you weld this broken cast iron part?

    Interesting thread. I used to be the king of brazing cast iron. Yet only 3 out of 4 attempts were strong enough to be useful. So I went with nickle 99 for years and increased the success to 90%. Then I had a long dry spell and rebuilders came out of the woodwork so I tried EZWELD tig rod for cast iron. I became a true believer when I had to rebuild a $50k machine hub.

    EZWELD has the same color as the base for the most part.
    Weld like a "WELDOR", not a wel-"DERR"
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    Re: How would you weld this broken cast iron part?

    How cheap is EZWELD and used with a torch.
    I mainly use brazing for all my cast iron repair but the idea of a close match to cast iron.

    Dave

    Quote Originally Posted by shovelon View Post
    Interesting thread. I used to be the king of brazing cast iron. Yet only 3 out of 4 attempts were strong enough to be useful. So I went with nickle 99 for years and increased the success to 90%. Then I had a long dry spell and rebuilders came out of the woodwork so I tried EZWELD tig rod for cast iron. I became a true believer when I had to rebuild a $50k machine hub.

    EZWELD has the same color as the base for the most part.

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    Re: How would you weld this broken cast iron part?

    Quote Originally Posted by shovelon View Post
    Interesting thread. I used to be the king of brazing cast iron. Yet only 3 out of 4 attempts were strong enough to be useful. So I went with nickle 99 for years and increased the success to 90%. Then I had a long dry spell and rebuilders came out of the woodwork so I tried EZWELD tig rod for cast iron. I became a true believer when I had to rebuild a $50k machine hub.

    EZWELD has the same color as the base for the most part.
    Well before personal computers, I learned a lot about welding by reading, first books and later product catalogs; then I tested the ideas and materials on practice work & welds. A few of my old catalogs are from MG products (now Messer MG or Messer Welding), which are what I think I used on the post drill handle, decades ago. IIRC, I alternated rod types as I built up the V'd break, finishing with something having the same color, some succeeding layers somewhat annealing the ones below them in the process.
    I could scan and post some useful pages w/ instructions from MG's catalogs, if wanted, but meanwhile can post a link to MG's current online catalog [which uses only part numbers, rather than the old rod designation numbers, in most cases, and leaves out the CI weld instructions!!! ]

    The cast iron category is half-way down the page, although a few products also show up near the top for "specialty" needs:


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    Re: How would you weld this broken cast iron part?

    The All State 11 sounds promising, I like the idea of a silver braze with good wetting- they say it will wick into .001"-.003" space- that means the freshly broken pieces can be perfectly aligned with no exterior beveling or grinding.

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    Re: How would you weld this broken cast iron part?

    Yikes...but for the purpose, price would probably be pretty good.

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    Dave J.

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    Re: How would you weld this broken cast iron part?

    Nice price too.

    It looks like great rod now if price is closer to brazing rod would make great rod.

    Thank you
    Dave

    Quote Originally Posted by MinnesotaDave View Post
    Yikes...but for the purpose, price would probably be pretty good.

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    Re: How would you weld this broken cast iron part?

    You are buying welding “wires” not rods.

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    Re: How would you weld this broken cast iron part?

    Eutectic used to make a rod called XYRON? IIRC it was awesome on broken manifolds etc, it was an arc electrode and would run on a cheapie AC transformer machines.

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    Re: How would you weld this broken cast iron part?

    Quote Originally Posted by CAVEMANN View Post
    Eutectic used to make a rod called XYRON? IIRC it was awesome on broken manifolds etc, it was an arc electrode and would run on a cheapie AC transformer machines.
    There were actually four different versions of XYRON. I could shoot pictures of their pages from a 1963 Eutectic catalog and post them, if anyone is interested. Scanning as a pdf makes files too large to post here.

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  23. #19
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    Re: How would you weld this broken cast iron part?

    Did you get job done?

    You can see they few options
    1)Brazing rod / brass low price
    2) EZ weld high price but close match to cast iron color get if part can not be painted
    3) Nickel cast iron rod in between 1 & 2. For looks and price
    4) cast iron rod very close match but harder to weld.

    Dave

    Quote Originally Posted by stoneaxe View Post
    This is from some old piece of flat belt driven farm machinery-a linkage of some sort.
    I made a replacement on the mill out of mild steel, but would like to weld or braze the original. The middle break is recent and clean,the pin on the end is an old break. The section thickness is about 1/4"- 1/2" thick. The break on the end is 5/8" diameter. No experience with any cast iron welding or brazing, have a O/A rig, and AC-DC tig to use.
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    Last edited by smithdoor; 05-06-2022 at 01:23 AM.

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    Re: How would you weld this broken cast iron part?

    Quote Originally Posted by Oldiron2 View Post
    Scanning as a pdf makes files too large to post here.
    Most scanners will let you save the pic as a "jpg" which you can then resize for posting.

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    Re: How would you weld this broken cast iron part?

    A US artsy crafts supplier now has the trademark 'Xyron' so searching on that, goes nowhere.

    Eutectic is still around. Their 'About Us' says they were founded in India, and now are a subsidiary of a US conglomerate.

    Here's their Xyron listing.

    https://www.ewacalloys.com/ewac/main...ar_cat=3&id=15

    But then on that site's 'Global Sales' page:
    "We export to Africa, Middle East and South East Asian countries."


    For the US, see:
    Castolin Eutectic - Eutectic Corporation USA - near Milwaukee.

    But they seem to market to heavy industry, not retail.

    Searching Ebay on 'Eutectic' or 'Castolin' located several rods and welding powders.
    * Amico MIG-130A Flux, Dual Voltage. Truly portable!
    * HF MIG-180 with all the mods. Heavy.
    * Grizzly H8153 Stick/Tig 130/160.
    * Wards PowrKraft AC-230. Stick & carbon arc.

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    Re: How would you weld this broken cast iron part?

    Quote Originally Posted by shortfuse View Post
    Most scanners will let you save the pic as a "jpg" which you can then resize for posting.
    True, but then I would need to process each page separately (and I would also scan some others, including the inside cover) which I didn't have the time or energy to do lately and which is more trouble than photographing. Was up 'till 3, as it was. So far, nobody has requested seeing the information.

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    Re: How would you weld this broken cast iron part?

    Quote Originally Posted by Oldiron2 View Post
    True, but then I would need to process each page separately (and I would also scan some others, including the inside cover) which I didn't have the time or energy to do lately and which is more trouble than photographing. Was up 'till 3, as it was. So far, nobody has requested seeing the information.
    Some of that old product literature may be available on Ebay. If not at this moment, then set up a search that will send you an email when something gets listed.

    My search through Ebay this morning hit on some Eutectic product literature.
    * Amico MIG-130A Flux, Dual Voltage. Truly portable!
    * HF MIG-180 with all the mods. Heavy.
    * Grizzly H8153 Stick/Tig 130/160.
    * Wards PowrKraft AC-230. Stick & carbon arc.

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    Re: How would you weld this broken cast iron part?

    Quote Originally Posted by California View Post
    Some of that old product literature may be available on Ebay. If not at this moment, then set up a search that will send you an email when something gets listed.

    My search through Ebay this morning hit on some Eutectic product literature.
    I already have one from 1963, which is the one I offered to photograph.


    I could use some data on Stoody 1027; I can't find my old brochures, and am not sure ESAB (who now owns Stoody) will be able to find and send any to me, as I recently requested. An internet search so far found nothing of value.

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    Re: How would you weld this broken cast iron part?

    Quote Originally Posted by MinnesotaDave View Post
    Yikes...but for the purpose, price would probably be pretty good.

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    Yep, pricey, but this filler does not require preheat or special post weld cooling. There are a lot of antiques restoration firms in Los Angeles that can't find replacements to the original. I make my money and run.
    Weld like a "WELDOR", not a wel-"DERR"
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