190 amp mig ground cable sizing

[abosely]

The Hobart 190 came with 10’ 6 AGW ground cable.
I want to get longer ground cable, is 6 AGW big enough for 20’ ground cable?

Won’t be quiet that long, probably about 16’ to 17’ but want to be sure it’s big enough.

Can get 4 AGW no problem, but the 6 AGW is a bit more flexible, so if 6 AGW is plenty big enough for 190 amp mig & up to 20’ will go with 6 AGW.

But if 6 AGW is marginal at all, will go with 4 AGW.

Cheers, Allen

[Oscar]

At what actual duty cycle will the machine/cable be exposed to?

[Sberry]

Like the man said, if its ran light its probably not a problem but If I thought I needed 16 or 17 would go 20 and a size bigger. You are doubling the length. These are good welders, they are small and it aint ainy trouble to turn them down but I figure giving them some help from the wire and cables doesnt hurt.

[Meltedmetal]

At what actual duty cycle will the machine/cable be exposed to?

Specs say 130 amps @ 21.5 volts 30% Duty cycle

[abosely]

Oh I’ll just get next size up, 4 AGW instead of 6 AGW.
It’s not problem to go with 4 AGW instead of 6 AGW, figured it was probably good idea to go with the next size up, but thought I’d ask.

Only reason for thinking about using 6 AGW was slightly smaller & more flexible, but certainly not a problem with 4 AGW.

Have 4 AGW inbound. :-)

Thanks guys

[Sberry]

Flaws really magnify when it's having the guys wrung out of it. The ground clamp gets a lot of blame when it's really the connection. A size bigger wire helps with all that as well as save a volt and reduce a little heat loss along the way that could be put to use in a weld.
This is not so fussy on some bigger machines. Even a buzzer if it's run modest, rated at 225A, most use in the 90-115A range or larger units that running small electrodes most of the time.
Little feeder is different, it's easy to run it on top end, mine spent most it's life dialed up and cook that connector a couple times along the way.

[Sberry]

Your machine will warm that 6 if you run it hard, it won't the 4.

[Dan]

Allen, go with the #4 cable. Since this is on the output side of the machine a loss of .2 of a volt can make a difference with solid wire.

[abosely]

Thanks for the input. I ordered 20’ of 4 AGW stranded flexible wire for the ground.
Don’t want to mess with using lighter than optimal wire, cost difference is negligible and want to use wire with some extra margin too.

[Sberry]

Yes, a few volts loss going in doesnt mean much but 1 going out means a lot.

[Oscar]

Specs say 130 amps @ 21.5 volts 30% Duty cycle

That's the rating. But the machine can put out up to 190A (albeit at a much lower duty cycle). That's why I asked how hard it will actually be ran. If it's gonna be pushed to the max very frequently (near 200A), then a 2awg copper ground cable would be ideal/sufficient to minimize losses.

[Meltedmetal]

That's the rating. But the machine can put out up to 190A (albeit at a much lower duty cycle). That's why I asked how hard it will actually be ran. If it's gonna be pushed to the max very frequently (near 200A), then a 2awg copper ground cable would be ideal/sufficient to minimize losses.

Certainly nothing wrong with #2 but I, personally, would consider it overkill for that machine. If I thought I would frequently need that much current I'd skip the cable purchase and look for a bigger machine. I'm not that fond of the smell of toasted electrical insulation.

[Oscar]

Certainly nothing wrong with #2 but I, personally, would consider it overkill for that machine. If I thought I would frequently need that much current I'd skip the cable purchase and look for a bigger machine. I'm not that fond of the smell of toasted electrical insulation.

Yup, I personally tend to overkill a bit here and there. All personal preference, since there are a multitude of options that will work.

[M J D]

I've yet to see where an oversized cable and ground clamp is going to cause issues. #2 is hardly big cable. A good ground clamp( brass or copper) is also a good thing. Of all welding processes, mig is the most finicky as far as a ground connection is concerned.

[Oscar]

Of all welding processes, mig is the most finicky as far as a ground connection is concerned.

The more I use it (MIG), the more I tend to think along these lines. I'm actually upgrading all my work/ground cables/connections due to that fact. Most would call it overkill/ridiculous, but who cares. I want the performance to be as effortless as possible. My 200A MIGs all now have 1/0 flex-a-prene, with 400A brass ground clamps (the ones from Harbor Freight for $15, can't beat 'em), AND I use the original 2awg cable/clamp as a secondary extension: clamp it near the brass clamp, and the clamp on the other end on the other side of the part (or table) using a 300A lincoln clamp from Home Depot. I'll post up pics in a little bit.

[M J D]

The more I use it (MIG), the more I tend to think along these lines. I'm actually upgrading all my work/ground cables/connections due to that fact. Most would call it overkill/ridiculous, but who cares. I want the performance to be as effortless as possible. My 200A MIGs all now have 1/0 flex-a-prene, with 400A brass ground clamps (the ones from Harbor Freight for $15, can't beat 'em), AND I use the original 2awg cable/clamp as a secondary extension: clamp it near the brass clamp, and the clamp on the other end on the other side of the part (or table) using a 300A lincoln clamp from Home Depot. I'll post up pics in a little bit.

The bonus with the higher amp clamps is they generally open larger and the extra weight helps if just setting it on a flat surface.

[abosely]

I have one of these inbound, will try it and see how it works.

[Oscar]

MJD,

this is how I have mine set-up as of very recently. The double-clamp black cable is the original (that I replaced the Dinse connector with the lincoln 300A clamp) that is used as a secondary path, if applicable.

[StandarDyne]

Yup, I personally tend to overkill a bit here and there. All personal preference, since there are a multitude of options that will work.

8/0 should work.

[Oscar]

8/0 should work.

Do you have link for it? I need some for an upcoming project

[M J D]

MJD,

this is how I have mine set-up as of very recently. The double-clamp black cable is the original (that I replaced the Dinse connector with the lincoln 300A clamp) that is used as a secondary path, if applicable.

That works. I took the ground lead that came with my esab 180 and removed the dinse connector end and attached it to the jaw of a vise grip 11r. Added a little braze to the jaw tips and it works quite well as a jumper or additional ground lead. Nice thing about the 11r is that it will fit almost anything.

[Sberry]

Wire feed is certainly squirrely. It was explained at one time, I forget, something about inductance as best I recall and leads being separated. Its probably over my head but the sizing is important but I think most of the real issue is they dont like long convoluted roundabout routes. My benches are welded together with 4 inch channel in the floor, leave the ground on one and weld on the other and its absolutely terrible, stumbles, think the machine is broke, move clamp to the bench I am working on and its dandy. Same lead, just different location.

[Sberry]

I also have lead extension from the bench, tweco lug bolted to it so clamp is movable and on occasion hook the alum machine to it as the lead is a little short to reach the bench. I shortened the work lead for the plasma, that really helped but the plas, sticks, tig bolted to common. Wire feeds use the stuff the way they made it.

[Sberry]

I also have lead extension from the bench, Tweco lug bolted to it so clamp is movable and on occasion hook the alum machine to it as the lead is a little short to reach the bench. I shortened the work lead for the plasma, that really helped but the plas, sticks, tig bolted to common. Wire feeds use the stuff the way they made it.
Also,,, with the plas,,, it came 50 ft. Didnt change it, just cut 35+ ft off. Same difference as going a size larger in some sense. Similar to the Linc leads, they are so firmly attatched inside the machine I dont want to fool withj it, simply cut it off a few inches outside the machine and shorten the section of original wire by 90%,, didnt need to be perfect, simply better.
I figure it was designed by book learned engineer, when I improve on thos guys I often shirt tail calculate, I up a size, a thickness, 25%, depends but my goal isnt to make it 10X or as strong as it CAN be.
I have to watch this with guys work for me,,, other day one asked why I do it that way,,,, yes it would be stronger other way but a LOt more work, the original last 50 years and now we use a version 25% better, going to be infinite service life for out purpose and take 5 minutes of easy instead of 5 hr of hard.