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Thread: Running a tig welder on a generator safely

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    Running a tig welder on a generator safely

    Hello I new here and I'm just looking for a little guidance on mobile tig welding with a generator. have a small welding business that I run out of my garage as a side job. I have a miller dynasty 300dx and a AHP Alpha tig 200.

    I currently use my AHP because the Miller is having issues. So my goal is to be a fully mobile service. I have contacted AHP to see what is needed in a generator to run my machine safely. And was told I would need a 9000 running wat generator that produces LESS THAN 5% THD (total harmonic distortion), (clean power). That is my biggest issue. Iv searched for generator and I have found a few that meet the requirements. The few I found were upwards of 8-9k which is alot more than I would like to spend. Which is why I have only been shop welding. So I'm sure it's unlikely to find a cheaper option on what I'm looking for but before I just give up the idea of mobile welding for the time being I wanted to see if anyone could shed some insight or has had experience with a generator that works well for tig welding. Thanks in advance for any help or suggestions.

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    Re: Running a tig welder on a generator safely

    Generator bible is your friend: https://generatorbible.com/

    It looks like the powerhorse or the generac will be your best options

    https://generatorbible.com/generator...horse/13000es/
    https://generatorbible.com/generator...5802-xg10000e/

    But at those prices, you may want to invest in a better welder first. If you aren't going to invest in an actual engine drive welder, then you it may be better to find a TIG welder that will run in the 7000 watt range so you could actually use it with an inverter generator. That will save you a ton on gas and be much quieter. As an example the HTP Invertig 221 DV only draws 26 amps at rated load, so it should be able to get by with a smaller 7Kw generator
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    Re: Running a tig welder on a generator safely

    Finding (total harmonic distortion) will be hard most manufacturers do not print that information. You can put a scope on generator and check THD. But power coming in to your maybe great than 5% THD.

    I agree need at less 9,000 watts for tig and stick.

    Next question is how must do you spend for get data on (total harmonic distortion) .

    Dave

    Quote Originally Posted by Tramd93 View Post
    Hello I new here and I'm just looking for a little guidance on mobile tig welding with a generator. have a small welding business that I run out of my garage as a side job. I have a miller dynasty 300dx and a AHP Alpha tig 200.

    I currently use my AHP because the Miller is having issues. So my goal is to be a fully mobile service. I have contacted AHP to see what is needed in a generator to run my machine safely. And was told I would need a 9000 running wat generator that produces LESS THAN 5% THD (total harmonic distortion), (clean power). That is my biggest issue. Iv searched for generator and I have found a few that meet the requirements. The few I found were upwards of 8-9k which is alot more than I would like to spend. Which is why I have only been shop welding. So I'm sure it's unlikely to find a cheaper option on what I'm looking for but before I just give up the idea of mobile welding for the time being I wanted to see if anyone could shed some insight or has had experience with a generator that works well for tig welding. Thanks in advance for any help or suggestions.

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    Re: Running a tig welder on a generator safely

    Quote Originally Posted by Louie1961 View Post
    Generator bible is your friend: https://generatorbible.com/

    It looks like the powerhorse or the generac will be your best options

    https://generatorbible.com/generator...horse/13000es/
    https://generatorbible.com/generator...5802-xg10000e/

    But at those prices, you may want to invest in a better welder first. If you aren't going to invest in an actual engine drive welder, then you it may be better to find a TIG welder that will run in the 7000 watt range so you could actually use it with an inverter generator. That will save you a ton on gas and be much quieter. As an example the HTP Invertig 221 DV only draws 26 amps at rated load, so it should be able to get by with a smaller 7Kw generator
    The AHP pulls 34 amps inrush and is rated 24 amps
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    Re: Running a tig welder on a generator safely

    Look it up regarding AC power.
    Most generators off shelf will work great.
    The produce a very good sign wave.

    The inverter may not produce a good sign wave as i nothing how produce they work.

    Dave

    The distortion of a waveform relative to a pure sinewave can be measured either by using a THD analyzer to analyse the output wave into its constituent harmonics and noting the amplitude of each relative to the fundamental; or by cancelling out the fundamental with a notch filter and measuring the remaining signal, which will be total aggregate harmonic distortion plus noise.

    Given a sinewave generator of very low inherent distortion, it can be used as input to amplification equipment, whose distortion at different frequencies and signal levels can be measured by examining the output waveform.

    There is electronic equipment both to generate sinewaves and to measure distortion; but a general-purpose digital computer equipped with a sound card can carry out harmonic analysis with suitable software. Different software can be used to generate sinewaves, but the inherent distortion may be too high for measurement of very low-distortion amplifiers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tramd93 View Post
    Hello I new here and I'm just looking for a little guidance on mobile tig welding with a generator. have a small welding business that I run out of my garage as a side job. I have a miller dynasty 300dx and a AHP Alpha tig 200.

    I currently use my AHP because the Miller is having issues. So my goal is to be a fully mobile service. I have contacted AHP to see what is needed in a generator to run my machine safely. And was told I would need a 9000 running wat generator that produces LESS THAN 5% THD (total harmonic distortion), (clean power). That is my biggest issue. Iv searched for generator and I have found a few that meet the requirements. The few I found were upwards of 8-9k which is alot more than I would like to spend. Which is why I have only been shop welding. So I'm sure it's unlikely to find a cheaper option on what I'm looking for but before I just give up the idea of mobile welding for the time being I wanted to see if anyone could shed some insight or has had experience with a generator that works well for tig welding. Thanks in advance for any help or suggestions.

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    Re: Running a tig welder on a generator safely

    Quote Originally Posted by Louie1961 View Post
    Generator bible is your friend: https://generatorbible.com/

    It looks like the powerhorse or the generac will be your best options

    https://generatorbible.com/generator...horse/13000es/
    https://generatorbible.com/generator...5802-xg10000e/

    But at those prices, you may want to invest in a better welder first. If you aren't going to invest in an actual engine drive welder, then you it may be better to find a TIG welder that will run in the 7000 watt range so you could actually use it with an inverter generator. That will save you a ton on gas and be much quieter. As an example the HTP Invertig 221 DV only draws 26 amps at rated load, so it should be able to get by with a smaller 7Kw generator
    The Powerhorse seems like a great value.

    The 26A rating of the 221 DV is a typo it seems. I tested mine on TIG, and maxxed out it pulls 32A with a steady 242V AC input. On a generator where the voltage will likely sag a bit under load, I can see it pulling upwards of 35A, depending on how much the voltage sags, if any.
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    Re: Running a tig welder on a generator safely

    Quote Originally Posted by Oscar View Post
    The Powerhorse seems like a great value.

    The 26A rating of the 221 DV is a typo it seems. I tested mine on TIG, and maxxed out it pulls 32A with a steady 242V AC input. On a generator where the voltage will likely sag a bit under load, I can see it pulling upwards of 35A, depending on how much the voltage sags, if any.
    26amp is the RATED load.

    "As an example the HTP Invertig 221 DV only draws 26 amps at rated load,"
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    Re: Running a tig welder on a generator safely

    As others have stated, some of those generators Northern tool has look really good. I bought a Westinghouse 12000 to run my welder off of. I've had no complaints or problems with it so far. There was a many month wait for it to be manufactured, and that was BEFORE pandemic. Not sure what it would be like now. If I were to buy again, I would probably get something from Northern Tool as I've heard bad things about Westinghouse as far as problems with units down the road are concerned (ie repair etc).

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    Re: Running a tig welder on a generator safely

    Try this one
    https://www.homedepot.com/p/Westingh...500c/318062004

    Quote Originally Posted by Tramd93 View Post
    Hello I new here and I'm just looking for a little guidance on mobile tig welding with a generator. have a small welding business that I run out of my garage as a side job. I have a miller dynasty 300dx and a AHP Alpha tig 200.

    I currently use my AHP because the Miller is having issues. So my goal is to be a fully mobile service. I have contacted AHP to see what is needed in a generator to run my machine safely. And was told I would need a 9000 running wat generator that produces LESS THAN 5% THD (total harmonic distortion), (clean power). That is my biggest issue. Iv searched for generator and I have found a few that meet the requirements. The few I found were upwards of 8-9k which is alot more than I would like to spend. Which is why I have only been shop welding. So I'm sure it's unlikely to find a cheaper option on what I'm looking for but before I just give up the idea of mobile welding for the time being I wanted to see if anyone could shed some insight or has had experience with a generator that works well for tig welding. Thanks in advance for any help or suggestions.

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    Re: Running a tig welder on a generator safely

    What a great community here, im not used to forums being so helpful so quickly. Thanks alot guys. I'm not sure where I was looking at he time that I was, but these prices are pretty decent. I think the powerhorse may be the best option for my budget as Louie said. The Westinghouse also looks like a great generator but it does produce a Thd of <23%. which I honestly don't know to much about how would actually affect my machine but I'm trying to avoid any issues at all. so if I have to pay a few hundred more for the powerhorse for the piece of mind Im okay with that. Thanks alot for the help I do appreciate it.

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    Re: Running a tig welder on a generator safely

    Quote Originally Posted by Broccoli1 View Post
    26amp is the RATED load.

    "As an example the HTP Invertig 221 DV only draws 26 amps at rated load,"
    Not sure where you're seeing that info.

    from the manual:

    On 230 volts, the machine will draw 26 amps out of the wall
    when operating at a welding output of 220 amps in the tig
    mode


    So yea, I stand by what I said.
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    Re: Running a tig welder on a generator safely

    A generator produce a true sign wave.

    Dave

    Quote Originally Posted by Tramd93 View Post
    What a great community here, im not used to forums being so helpful so quickly. Thanks alot guys. I'm not sure where I was looking at he time that I was, but these prices are pretty decent. I think the powerhorse may be the best option for my budget as Louie said. The Westinghouse also looks like a great generator but it does produce a Thd of <23%. which I honestly don't know to much about how would actually affect my machine but I'm trying to avoid any issues at all. so if I have to pay a few hundred more for the powerhorse for the piece of mind Im okay with that. Thanks alot for the help I do appreciate it.

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    Re: Running a tig welder on a generator safely

    Fronius and Lorch both supply portable 200 amp class TIG sets that will run on "dirty" power. Lorch Micor in particular is awesome, it runs on pretty much whatever you plug into it, from 90VAC to 300VAC. Designed to run on a portable battery/inverter supply, 110v, and 240v. You just plug it into whatever, and it just isn't bothered.
    Murphy's Golden Rule: Whoever has the gold, makes the rules.

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    Re: Running a tig welder on a generator safely

    Quote Originally Posted by Oscar View Post
    Not sure where you're seeing that info.

    from the manual:

    On 230 volts, the machine will draw 26 amps out of the wall
    when operating at a welding output of 220 amps in the tig
    mode


    So yea, I stand by what I said.

    From their website

    Name:  Capture.jpg
Views: 251
Size:  16.6 KB
    Miller Multimatic 255

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    Re: Running a tig welder on a generator safely

    Quote Originally Posted by smithdoor View Post
    A generator produce a true sign wave.

    Dave

    Most gas generators don't produce a single pure sine wave. Some are a sine wave approximation (more like a square wave) and some produce so many harmonic variants that the sine wave become choppy. Even the good inverters still have a few harmonics that distort the sine wave. But to the OPs question about how THD affects the welder, harmonic distortion generally causes electronic components to overheat and die. In the case of non-electronic components like electric motors, harmonic distortion causes a loss of power as well as overheating. My 3 HP submersible well pump required a 13KW generator to start and run when it was a high THD B&S generator. Switching to an inverter generator, I could run the pump without a problem on a 7KW generator. https://www.allaboutcircuits.com/tec...power-systems/
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    Re: Running a tig welder on a generator safely

    Quote Originally Posted by Louie1961 View Post
    From their website

    Name:  Capture.jpg
Views: 251
Size:  16.6 KB
    their "rated load" is 220amps @20% DC, that's how I'd read that.

    I know what you're looking for - usually "rated" load would be at 60% DC. Or something like that.

    Anyway Oscar's measurement of 35 amps under full load doesn't take into account arc length, plus power factor. (I can't find a power factor figure for the Invertig anywhere)
    Last edited by Munkul; 05-13-2022 at 09:04 AM.
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    Re: Running a tig welder on a generator safely

    A standard generator is a sign wave.

    If some else (electronic) it may not be a sign wave most of this type is square wave and maybe a modified square. Most of this type use a chip 555.

    Dave

    Quote Originally Posted by Louie1961 View Post
    Most gas generators don't produce a single pure sine wave. Some are a sine wave approximation (more like a square wave) and some produce so many harmonic variants that the sine wave become choppy. Even the good inverters still have a few harmonics that distort the sine wave. But to the OPs question about how THD affects the welder, harmonic distortion generally causes electronic components to overheat and die. In the case of non-electronic components like electric motors, harmonic distortion causes a loss of power as well as overheating. My 3 HP submersible well pump required a 13KW generator to start and run when it was a high THD B&S generator. Switching to an inverter generator, I could run the pump without a problem on a 7KW generator. https://www.allaboutcircuits.com/tec...power-systems/
    Last edited by smithdoor; 05-13-2022 at 10:18 AM.

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    Re: Running a tig welder on a generator safely

    Inverter-generator type may not have a sign wave. It lower cost since the run the engine at higher speed and variable speed to save on fuel.

    Most is like car alternator then into DC. Then they a Inverter witch is a modified square wave.

    So buy old fashioned type generator for a sign wave.

    Dave

    Do not buy this type
    https://www.harborfreight.com/genera...ogy-57080.html

    Quote Originally Posted by Louie1961 View Post
    Most gas generators don't produce a single pure sine wave. Some are a sine wave approximation (more like a square wave) and some produce so many harmonic variants that the sine wave become choppy. Even the good inverters still have a few harmonics that distort the sine wave. But to the OPs question about how THD affects the welder, harmonic distortion generally causes electronic components to overheat and die. In the case of non-electronic components like electric motors, harmonic distortion causes a loss of power as well as overheating. My 3 HP submersible well pump required a 13KW generator to start and run when it was a high THD B&S generator. Switching to an inverter generator, I could run the pump without a problem on a 7KW generator. https://www.allaboutcircuits.com/tec...power-systems/

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    Re: Running a tig welder on a generator safely

    Quote Originally Posted by Oscar View Post
    Not sure where you're seeing that info.

    from the manual:

    On 230 volts, the machine will draw 26 amps out of the wall
    when operating at a welding output of 220 amps in the tig
    mode


    So yea, I stand by what I said.
    there's no conflict here.

    You quoted a post that stated rated output at 26amps but then when on to state 34 amps at max output.

    Both can be true.
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    Re: Running a tig welder on a generator safely

    Quote Originally Posted by Broccoli1 View Post
    there's no conflict here.

    You quoted a post that stated rated output at 26amps but then when on to state 34 amps at max output.

    Both can be true.

    Actually the specs for the DV machine are different than the specs for the 240 volt only machine. I am not sure if it is true or not, but I read a post that the reason for this is that the DV machine has power factor correction not present in the 240v only machine. I wonder which version of the HTP 221 has?
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    Re: Running a tig welder on a generator safely

    Ed Conley
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    Re: Running a tig welder on a generator safely

    Quote Originally Posted by Louie1961 View Post
    From their website

    Name:  Capture.jpg
Views: 251
Size:  16.6 KB
    Well, by my account, it's wrong, based on my measurements @ 220A.

    Quote Originally Posted by Broccoli1 View Post
    there's no conflict here.

    You quoted a post that stated rated output at 26amps but then when on to state 34 amps at max output.

    Both can be true.
    Yea I can see what you're saying, except that in my mind, I am using 220A as the rated output.
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    Re: Running a tig welder on a generator safely

    Every single thread ?

    You should probably not post when completely clueless to a topic. So much incorrect blah blah.


    Quote Originally Posted by smithdoor View Post
    Look it up regarding AC power.
    Most generators off shelf will work great.
    The produce a very good sign wave.

    The inverter may not produce a good sign wave as i nothing how produce they work.

    Dave
    Quote Originally Posted by smithdoor View Post
    A generator produce a true sign wave.

    Dave
    Quote Originally Posted by smithdoor View Post
    A standard generator is a sign wave.

    If some else (electronic) it may not be a sign wave most of this type is square wave and maybe a modified square. Most of this type use a chip 555.

    Dave
    Quote Originally Posted by smithdoor View Post
    Inverter-generator type may not have a sign wave. It lower cost since the run the engine at higher speed and variable speed to save on fuel.

    Most is like car alternator then into DC. Then they a Inverter witch is a modified square wave.

    So buy old fashioned type generator for a sign wave.

    Dave

    Do not buy this type
    https://www.harborfreight.com/genera...ogy-57080.html

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    Re: Running a tig welder on a generator safely

    I agree
    But will my is very true and change electric or electronic on generator to conform to a ad will never work.
    It only shows how ads are lie.

    When dam or steam power makes power it uses a very large generator the same as a small generator.

    Inverters uses electronic to make the sign wave in some case a square wave.
    Do not believe some ads

    Dave

    Quote Originally Posted by danielplace View Post
    Every single thread ?

    You should probably not post when completely clueless to a topic. So much incorrect blah blah.

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    Re: Running a tig welder on a generator safely

    Some inverters uses two transistors, two capacitors and four resistors simple but down side it square wave.

    Dave

    Quote Originally Posted by danielplace View Post
    Every single thread ?

    You should probably not post when completely clueless to a topic. So much incorrect blah blah.

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