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Thread: Welder/generator vs generator+ welder

  1. #51
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    Re: Welder/generator vs generator+ welder

    As for the OPO,,, if yopu are going out to work at this point in your career buy an engine drive machine. So much simoler and safer in some aspects at this point in a career.

  2. #52
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    Re: Welder/generator vs generator+ welder

    Quote Originally Posted by Leogl View Post
    I am not a electrician nor do I have the skills to explain it but I have been on jobs where safety man made temporary gen sets be grounded where welders they didnít mess with them I always assumed it had to do with ground faults on the aux power circuits
    Dunno why the safety guy is making a portable genset "grounded" and not an engine drive. An Engine drive is a generator that makes power to create the arc for welding.

    Local sparky code here in Los Angeles they want you to NOT drive a grounding rod- even pull up the trailer safety chains off the ground when running our big Tow generators for power on set.

    The new code wants every dang receptacle a GFI though.
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  3. #53
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    Re: Welder/generator vs generator+ welder

    Quote Originally Posted by Broccoli1 View Post
    Dunno why the safety guy is making a portable genset "grounded" and not an engine drive. An Engine drive is a generator that makes power to create the arc for welding.
    Assuming it's a DC welder, isn't the negative lead the "ground"? I mean, it's not like there's going to be any potential (voltage) between the stinger (or work clamp) and the earth...is there? I can at least see the argument behind grounding an AC generator...a DC welder, not so much.

  4. #54
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    Re: Welder/generator vs generator+ welder

    Quote Originally Posted by Kinda_Welder View Post
    So I was thinking about getting a welder generator and was talking about it with my dad and he brought up that there are 220 generators. Why not get one and run your welders off of that? Is there any good reasons to not get just a generator and run my welders off of that?
    First impressions matter. If you plan on getting paid, look at what the pros in your area use. THEY ARE YOUR COMPETITION. Where I live, oil and ag are big businesses. Lots of welders work here. Lots of service trucks for the railroads, and many mobile mechanics. Every one of them has a welder/generator. Lots of Lincolns (especially among the pipeliners) and Miller Bobcats and Trailblazers.
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  6. #55
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    Re: Welder/generator vs generator+ welder

    Quote Originally Posted by Teachu2 View Post
    First impressions matter. If you plan on getting paid, look at what the pros in your area use. THEY ARE YOUR COMPETITION. Where I live, oil and ag are big businesses. Lots of welders work here. Lots of service trucks for the railroads, and many mobile mechanics. Every one of them has a welder/generator. Lots of Lincolns (especially among the pipeliners) and Miller Bobcats and Trailblazers.
    THIS^^^.


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  8. #56
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    Re: Welder/generator vs generator+ welder

    Why ?

    Dave

    Quote Originally Posted by Teachu2 View Post
    First impressions matter. If you plan on getting paid, look at what the pros in your area use. THEY ARE YOUR COMPETITION. Where I live, oil and ag are big businesses. Lots of welders work here. Lots of service trucks for the railroads, and many mobile mechanics. Every one of them has a welder/generator. Lots of Lincolns (especially among the pipeliners) and Miller Bobcats and Trailblazers.

  9. #57
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    Re: Welder/generator vs generator+ welder

    Quote Originally Posted by smithdoor View Post
    Why ?

    Dave

    Because pros use professional equipment, designed for the job, not a consumer grade home backup generator with a hobbyist level welder attached.
    Miller Multimatic 255

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  11. #58
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    Re: Welder/generator vs generator+ welder

    Quote Originally Posted by StandarDyne View Post
    Assuming it's a DC welder, isn't the negative lead the "ground"? I mean, it's not like there's going to be any potential (voltage) between the stinger (or work clamp) and the earth...is there? I can at least see the argument behind grounding an AC generator...a DC welder, not so much.
    the safety path is the ground wire but not because it is grounded to mother earth. It works because the Green ground wire is bonded to the neutral and ALL metal parts need to be bonded. That's why there's a bonding point from the Engine drive to your truck or trailer.

    Example: fault happens and the trailer frame gets energized- the fault then travels from the frame through the bonding strap back to the generator and opens the circuit breaker.

    The fault does not travel to mother earth. If it did, it could potentially NOT open the CB because it never traveled back to the source with the over current, which is what trips the CB.


    Note: using a generator to power a building is a different beast but we are discussing a stand alone power source supplying power via it's own receptacles-either a Portable genset of an Engine Drive
    Last edited by Broccoli1; 05-19-2022 at 01:49 PM.
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  12. #59
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    Re: Welder/generator vs generator+ welder

    Quote Originally Posted by smithdoor View Post
    Why ?

    Dave
    Customers are more likely to hire people who appear competent, professional, and properly equipped for the job. Around here, it's a rare neighborhood that doesn't have at least one welding truck parked in it every night. Makes it a VERY competitive market. While I successfully hung several gates on the cheap with a Hobart Handler135 on a Coleman generator for friends and family, switching to the Bobcat opened up a much broader range of work - and a higher billing rate. If you're going to get paid like a pro, you need to perform like one - and the appearance is part of the performance. Showing up with cobbled-together equipment does not foster confidence, and may well get you run off the job before you even get set up.

    All this has nothing to do with skill, and everything to do with appearance. While a generator and separate welder may be able to do the job, they might never get get the job. In the shop, no problem. In the field, no bueno.
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  14. #60
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    Re: Welder/generator vs generator+ welder

    I agree with teachu2 in post #54 and #59

    And as far as the statement about the safety guy if you wanna argue with the safety guy in a big plant or the railroad you won’t have to get your tools out or your extension cord for your welder ! Again I was just stating what I have seen in my travels

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    Re: Welder/generator vs generator+ welder

    I have 4 trailblazers and they are basically over priced generators as we mostly just run our electric welders off them, but they have very reliable power.

  16. #62
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    Re: Welder/generator vs generator+ welder

    Do a google search on ACTUAL damage caused by non inverter generators due to THD.

    It's basically zero.

    Crappy generators mess things up through surges/brown outs, NOT high thd!!!! Please give me evidence if you disagree.

    Yes, it is possible. Does it happen in the real world? Never that I've heard of (coming from an off road/RV community background, with family that are full time RVers and make their living maintaining/fixing/inspecting RVs).

    Now, if you run a large welder all day every day full power on a high THD generator I'm sure you could shorten it's life, but hello the real world and common sense are knocking at your door. If i drive my car into a lake there is a high possibility I will drown. That does NOT make driving a drowning risk.

    Has anything like that ever happened to you or anyone you have a first hand account of? Again, Please share if so.



    Now, there are advantages to having a low THD generator, and I own a few inverters myself (love them!). But burning out electronics due to THD should not really be a concern. it has no real world place. IF it was commonly possible you would hear about it ALL THE TIME. How many of those little lunchbox sized tailgate generators do you think are sold every year?

    IMO and experience capacity of a generator is much more important than overall THD for not burning out high amp draw items (welders). Get the biggest you can logically afford/carry/store, and you will be fine. Go for the inverter if you can afford it and would like the ACTUAL benefits (less fuel usage, quieter, smaller usually).
    Last edited by SlowBlues; 05-19-2022 at 06:58 PM.

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  18. #63
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    Re: Welder/generator vs generator+ welder

    I do agree with look.

    Over last few years all I seen on job sites is a small fluxcore welder power by a Lincoln or Miller.
    Stick welding is not in field.

    All I ever used in field was stick
    I owned Hobart and Miller gasoline driven welders. Looks great on pickup give good feel too.

    But sad news times are changing.
    I first saw about 15 to 20 years ago fence builders using a low cost generator and a MIG welder with a tank of gas. Today it is fluxcore and no tank.

    Dave

    Quote Originally Posted by Teachu2 View Post
    Customers are more likely to hire people who appear competent, professional, and properly equipped for the job. Around here, it's a rare neighborhood that doesn't have at least one welding truck parked in it every night. Makes it a VERY competitive market. While I successfully hung several gates on the cheap with a Hobart Handler135 on a Coleman generator for friends and family, switching to the Bobcat opened up a much broader range of work - and a higher billing rate. If you're going to get paid like a pro, you need to perform like one - and the appearance is part of the performance. Showing up with cobbled-together equipment does not foster confidence, and may well get you run off the job before you even get set up.

    All this has nothing to do with skill, and everything to do with appearance. While a generator and separate welder may be able to do the job, they might never get get the job. In the shop, no problem. In the field, no bueno.

  19. #64
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    Re: Welder/generator vs generator+ welder

    As I recall one of the pitches about the Maxstar was it was tolerant of power. I dont see why the Traiblazer cant provide weld power and power a Max if a guy was running small electrodes, kind of 2 for 1.
    Last edited by Sberry; 05-19-2022 at 08:24 PM.

  20. #65
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    Re: Welder/generator vs generator+ welder

    If remember a lot gasoline welder only had a small ac generator at one time.

    My Hobart only had 20amp 120DC a pain. My Miller had a 5KW 240 volt AC outlet must nicer.
    But neither could run the Maxstar.
    It takes at less 10kw odds are 15 to 20 kw would the best.

    Dave

    Quote Originally Posted by Sberry View Post
    As I recall one of the pitches about the Maxstar was it was tolerant of power. I dont see why the Traiblazer cant provide weld power and power a Max if a guy was running small electrodes, kind of 2 for 1.

  21. #66
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    Re: Welder/generator vs generator+ welder

    You don't need either an engine drive or a portable welder and generator. I hear all you need is a big battery and some jumper cables. Bonus is that some of the bigger batteries have handles built right in. Make it real easy taking it out of the trunk of the car. Plus you can rig it up where as the car charges the welding battery.
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  23. #67
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    Re: Welder/generator vs generator+ welder

    Quote Originally Posted by Sberry View Post
    As I recall one of the pitches about the Maxstar was it was tolerant of power. I dont see why the Traiblazer cant provide weld power and power a Max if a guy was running small electrodes, kind of 2 for 1.
    At the time I bought my Bobcat, the Trailblazer also put out !0k on the generator but the Bobcat was cleaner. At the time, I needed clean power to run PCs in the field, off the grid. The Trailblazer had a slightly smoother arc.
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    Re: Welder/generator vs generator+ welder

    It is someone starting.
    A good welder cost over $10,000.

    I have own both Hobart and Miller gasoline welders in pass.

    Today I would rethink with options for starting out, even stick vs Fluxcore

    Dave

    Quote Originally Posted by Louie1961 View Post
    Because pros use professional equipment, designed for the job, not a consumer grade home backup generator with a hobbyist level welder attached.

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    Re: Welder/generator vs generator+ welder

    Quote Originally Posted by Freebirdwelds View Post
    I've been running my 330mpx for 2 years now and still haven't unlocked its full potential.
    If your considering one make sure you side by side compare them. Amperage aside the 260mpx can't do the same things the 330 can.
    i remeber reading ur post about half yr ago on all the gouging and heavy stuff u did w/ that thing, and u were happy w/ it. reason it stuck in my mind, is i was contemplating b/t a trailblazer and 305g, when that thing came out, and it was on sale. i know its a psycological thing, but lookin at it, i just couldnt take it serious. it made me thirsty for a coke in a bottle every time i went to the weld store. it looks like a old coke machine for the old mini coke bottles. the sales man told me how quiet it was. i probabaly shoulda bought it. i ended up buying neither though. now there all up a couple grand.
    Last edited by 123weld; 05-20-2022 at 12:52 AM.

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  27. #70
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    Re: Welder/generator vs generator+ welder

    This biggest part is how to get started with low cash.

    I think most want a new RED Lincoln welder on new pickup. A great dream for all of us.

    Dave

    Quote Originally Posted by Louie1961 View Post
    Because pros use professional equipment, designed for the job, not a consumer grade home backup generator with a hobbyist level welder attached.

  28. #71
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    Re: Welder/generator vs generator+ welder

    The pissing match is real.

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  30. #72
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    Re: Welder/generator vs generator+ welder

    The Max is a 20A inverter, DVI, it will run on 5K

  31. #73
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    Re: Welder/generator vs generator+ welder

    I am going to agree with Dave on low cash though. What do they call this today,,,, bias,,,, accurate technically but poor advice from experts. This is a kid, him and his dad talking this over and a 12K$ unit is probably not in the works. Needs something that works to get styarted, yes, genset to run a dvi or a used Bobber if a guy can find one. He needs a set of torches and a grinder too.

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  33. #74
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    Re: Welder/generator vs generator+ welder

    Thank you 😊

    Dave

    Quote Originally Posted by Sberry View Post
    I am going to agree with Dave on low cash though. What do they call this today,,,, bias,,,, accurate technically but poor advice from experts. This is a kid, him and his dad talking this over and a 12K$ unit is probably not in the works. Needs something that works to get styarted, yes, genset to run a dvi or a used Bobber if a guy can find one. He needs a set of torches and a grinder too.

  34. #75
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    Re: Welder/generator vs generator+ welder

    Quote Originally Posted by Kinda_Welder View Post
    So I was thinking about getting a welder generator and was talking about it with my dad and he brought up that there are 220 generators. Why not get one and run your welders off of that? Is there any good reasons to not get just a generator and run my welders off of that?
    Quote Originally Posted by Sberry View Post
    I am going to agree with Dave on low cash though. What do they call this today,,,, bias,,,, accurate technically but poor advice from experts. This is a kid, him and his dad talking this over and a 12K$ unit is probably not in the works. Needs something that works to get styarted, yes, genset to run a dvi or a used Bobber if a guy can find one. He needs a set of torches and a grinder too.
    If money is a problem, that requires advice on getting a job. The question was "Is there any good reasons to not get just a generator and run my welders off of that?" Here's three:
    1) It's more expensive to generate your own electricity rather than buy it from the grid, so if you don't need to be mobile, it's a waste.
    2) It will set you up to be the low-price leader of your market.
    3) It will make it harder to make profit.
    4) if you decide to do something else for a living, resale on it will stink. I could sell my Bobcat today for more than I paid for it new.

    Will it work? Probably. Will you be able to compete for work? Probably not.
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