Bit O' Scarfing

[farmersammm]

I'll bet it's been at least 4 years since I did any scarfing.

Couldn't successfully cut the welds, and remove 3 pieces of 1/4 plate welded to 11ga diamondplate. So I dug out the torch.

Been so long since I ran one......I was a bit timid, and didn't go down to the base metal on the first pass.

Same basic process as Arc Air, but not needing a big welder, and compressor.

In this pic, and the previous pic,, you can see that I only nicked the parent metal in a coupla places........and only about maybe 1/32-1/16 deep. The cleanup with the grinder shows the low spots. TRYING TO GRIND THE WELDS OUT CAUSED MORE DAMAGE THAN THE SCARFING TIP The straight lines are where the grinder got into the metal while trying remove the welds.

Old school still rocks.

[Oldiron2]

I'll bet it's been at least 4 years since I did any scarfing.

Couldn't successfully cut the welds, and remove 3 pieces of 1/4 plate welded to 11ga diamondplate. So I dug out the torch.

Been so long since I ran one......I was a bit timid, and didn't go down to the base metal on the first pass.

Same basic process as Arc Air, but not needing a big welder, and compressor.

In this pic, and the previous pic,, you can see that I only nicked the parent metal in a coupla places........and only about maybe 1/32-1/16 deep. The cleanup with the grinder shows the low spots. TRYING TO GRIND THE WELDS OUT CAUSED MORE DAMAGE THAN THE SCARFING TIP The straight lines are where the grinder got into the metal while trying remove the welds.

Old school still rocks.

Sorry Sammm; no pictures of the torch and tip = it didn't happen that way...

[farmersammm]

Sorry Sammm; no pictures of the torch and tip = it didn't happen that way...

I really miss Denrep. When he was with us, he was probably the best torch man on the board. Knowing his azz from his elbow, he would have taken one look at the pics, and known what was goin' on.

I admired Denrep, and used to put up a lot of torch stuff for his enjoyment/critique. Irish Fixit was a good torch guy too.

Used to do a bit more repair work than I do these days, and the scarfing tip got taken out of the drawer maybe once/twice a year.

For any of the guys on the board nowdays........this is a scarfing tip. I was removing an old air bag suspension, and installing a Hutch spring suspension on my ancient Great Dane. IIRC, I was trying out a new tip that I got at the LWS. It wasn't a genuine Harris tip.........some sorta aftermarket thing. Anyways, I wound up ordering a genuine tip from a Harris supplier somewhere out East, or maybe The Midwest. I'd overtightened the old Harris tip,, and needed a new one. Or dinged the seat somehow.........something of that nature.

Anyways.............

[farmersammm]

Same same........bit timid at first till I got the feel for it again. Remember.........only maybe use the thing a few times a year back then.

Got settled in, and now we're cruzin'

Gonna use these things, I highly recommend a full face shield. You sometimes get stuff spitting back in your face.

Really handy for gouging welds out.

[farmersammm]

I mean.........these guys are handy to have. Maybe $20-25ish for a genuine tip that matches your torch. Few bucks, and you have a mini Arc Air.

Or, you can ride a grinder all day long...................

[farmersammm]

Used to work with quite a bit of somewhat thicker plate back in the day. Not terribly thick..........mostly up to 1/2-3/4, with an occassional piece of maybe 1 inch. I don't do much anymore.

I don't believe I ever could cut as good as Denrep, or Irish Fixit, but I was a fair hand back then I think some of the best torch work I've seen these days is that fella, IC Welds, on UTube. A real master at it. He's a rig welder, and does it day-in-day-out. A total artist.

[farmersammm]

Denrep had a signature move. He always had his hand in his pics, pointing to the work, when some idiot said whatever it was, was impossible to do. I miss the oldtimers.

[farmersammm]

Here's one for y'all Sometime around 2010. I already had 2 "m's" at that time, maybe even back to sometime in 2008. Every ban earned me another "m"

The arguments/discussions were just as epic back then https://weldingweb.com/vbb/threads/39119-Plate-gussets

[Dirtyamaha]

Here's one for y'all Sometime around 2010. I already had 2 "m's" at that time, maybe even back to sometime in 2008. Every ban earned me another "m"

The arguments/discussions were just as epic back then https://weldingweb.com/vbb/threads/39119-Plate-gussets

A lot of old names in that thread. I am mostly a lurker and haven't been around for a while. Are a lot of these guys not on the forum any more?

[Oldiron2]

I really miss Denrep. When he was with us, he was probably the best torch man on the board. Knowing his azz from his elbow, he would have taken one look at the pics, and known what was goin' on.

I admired Denrep, and used to put up a lot of torch stuff for his enjoyment/critique. Irish Fixit was a good torch guy too.

Used to do a bit more repair work than I do these days, and the scarfing tip got taken out of the drawer maybe once/twice a year.

For any of the guys on the board nowdays........this is a scarfing tip.

I was removing an old air bag suspension, and installing a Hutch spring suspension on my ancient Great Dane. IIRC, I was trying out a new tip that I got at the LWS. It wasn't a genuine Harris tip.........some sorta aftermarket thing. Anyways, I wound up ordering a genuine tip from a Harris supplier somewhere out East, or maybe The Midwest. I'd overtightened the old Harris tip,, and needed a new one. Or dinged the seat somehow.........something of that nature.

Anyways.............

I hope you don't consider that I'm in that don't-know-the-tip group ...I have at least one, a Harris also, but haven't used it in years, partly 'cause the plasma does a good job for lots of work...but mostly because I just don't have the need to scarf that often.

As for denrep, I agree he was damn good at that and more. Just for fun, I'll raise you one though...I bet I'm the only one here who had a thread that was started by both denrep and myself:

https://weldingweb.com/vbb/threads/2...lated-Pictures

It starts with his post (unfortunately, all his pictures are gone) but if you go down to Post 11, you'll find the thread's instructions and what was supposed to be the first post when David R combined the two, but something went wrong, he told me, and denrep went first. It was going to be 'sticky' for two weeks or so...per Post 16. At one time, that was the third-most viewed thread on the whole site. It's been inactive for some years and needs some new-old pictures to revive it. Sammm, your first post is #30 there, accepting (per your comment above) you still admit to being Samm too ...

Here's one for y'all Name: back in the day Attachment 1739851 Sometime around 2010. I already had 2 "m's" at that time, maybe even back to sometime in 2008. Every ban earned me another "m"

Do you remember which "crazy" idea first got William McC. banned?



.

[farmersammm]

I hope you don't consider that I'm in that don't-know-the-tip group ...I have at least one, a Harris also, but haven't used it in years, partly 'cause the plasma does a good job for lots of work...but mostly because I just don't have the need to scarf that often.

As for denrep, I agree he was damn good at that and more. Just for fun, I'll raise you one though...I bet I'm the only one here who had a thread that was started by both denrep and myself:

https://weldingweb.com/vbb/threads/2...lated-Pictures

It starts with his post (unfortunately, all his pictures are gone) but if you go down to Post 11, you'll find the thread's instructions and what was supposed to be the first post when David R combined the two, but something went wrong, he told me, and denrep went first. It was going to be 'sticky' for two weeks or so...per Post 16. At one time, that was the third-most viewed thread on the whole site. It's been inactive for some years and needs some new-old pictures to revive it. Sammm, your first post is #30 there, accepting (per your comment above) you still admit to being Samm too ...



Do you remember which "crazy" idea first got William McC. banned?



.

I still stand by that comment Whatever that gal was doing, is way beyond anything I could do. I can't gas weld. I think that what the pic was maybe.

Per scarfing tips................................People need to look this stuff up. It's the only way they'll ever learn anything. Spoon feed it, and it's a lost cause. Older guys know what the work entails. Younger guys need to be made curious about it. I take a dump precisely at 10:00AM, every morning,, rain or shine. Just because there isn't a pic, doesn't negate the fact (Actually..........sometimes I'm off schedule if I've been hitting the bagels for breakfast for a few days). I never knew what O/A gouging was, until I saw a pic of it. Went right out and looked it up back then. I thought it was better than sliced bread.

Something blew me away, talking about tips........................... https://www.harrisweldingsupplies.com/gouging-tips/ They've become awful pricey. But I can still remember when an $8/hr job was considered fairly good. Washed pots and pans in a restaurant when I was a kid.................$1.75/hr.

I never knew what got Crazy Bill axed..............all I remember was Denrep always calling him that.

[farmersammm]

A lot of old names in that thread. I am mostly a lurker and haven't been around for a while. Are a lot of these guys not on the forum any more?

Some are, but they're mostly gone off somewhere else I guess. Only PITA types like me are still around.

I never run out of priceless advice that does absolutely nobody any good.

[farmersammm]

No.............................I think he called him Wild Bill(?????????)

[farmersammm]

What the Hell(shrug).........might as well make it easy. Ruins the effect. Nothing should be for free.

[whtbaron]

Some are, but they're mostly gone off somewhere else I guess. Only PITA types like me are still around.

I never run out of priceless advice that does absolutely nobody any good.

And some of the guys like Irish, have unfortunately passed on...

[NotaVegetarian]

What the Hell(shrug).........might as well make it easy. Ruins the effect. Nothing should be for free.

Watch a guy do that a long time ago, his name was Skip Reeves a pipe welder back in the 70’s. Didn’t know what it was called. Watched him cut welds out of grooves. Now I know what the process is called. Thanks gang

[mla2ofus]

Did a lot of air arc at work yrs ago but still like scarfing better. Air arc is not something to use outdoors in dry conditions unless you have a full water truck with a good hose nozzle standing by. That air can blow sparks incredible distances.

[IAMsteelworker]

Done a little bit of scarfing at work. Nothing critical and nothing fancy. Definitely didn't have a scarfinh tip either

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

[Freebirdwelds]

I prefer Torch gouging over arc gouging when what I'm gouging needs to be preheated before welding. Plus it makes a smoother cleaner gouge.
But Arc gouging is easier to control for surgical gouging and is faster/cheaper when doing large areas. Arc gouging doesn't produce as much heat either for more critical repairs. They both have there place when used appropriately.

[farmersammm]

I prefer Torch gouging over arc gouging when what I'm gouging needs to be preheated before welding. Plus it makes a smoother cleaner gouge.
But Arc gouging is easier to control for surgical gouging and is faster/cheaper when doing large areas. Arc gouging doesn't produce as much heat either for more critical repairs. They both have there place when used appropriately.

I've never really considered heat input when I do it. I only work with mild steel........which has a low carbon content.

I dunno if arc gouging, which I've never done, puts any more heat in the metal than O/A. You're lookin' at melting 1/4 on top of 11ga. The hot spot is where the molten metal actually goes over the edge of the plate before it drops to the ground. It's the accumulation of all the stuff you melted before it reaches the edge of the sheet metal. The hot spot is the only area you might have to dress with the grinder if the molten metal accumulates, and runs back under the parent metal because it didn't fall over the edge. This workpiece required very little dressing to get rid of the slag on the underside.

Is arc gouging capable of any more surgical cut than O/A? Again..........I'm not sure. This workpiece was very thin. I dunno if arc gouging is capable of washing metal, or just cutting a groove in it.

What I can say......is that during cutting with O/A, you can very clearly see the difference between the stuff you're cutting, and the parent metal(I could see the underlying metal on the preceding scarfing job). It's a pretty easy deal. Only variable is whether the O2 stream behaves, and doesn't stray into the parent metal..........which can happen if it hits uncut metal at the wrong temp/cut speed..........it can divert down into the stuff you're trying to save.

The ability to clearly differentiate between the crap you're trying to remove, and the metal underneath it, allows you to be Cyber Knife surgical.

Layers of metal, when heated with O/A will only melt on the top layer. The preheat flame won't heat the underlying surface enough for the O2 stream to oxidize it.......which means it won't be damaged. Sure, it's heated, but it won't cut. I can mess up with the angle of the torch, but that's my bad, not a fault of the process.

I really don't know any method of removing metal, other than using a torch. I have a small Arcair thingy, but I never liked it, and it sits hanging in the shop. I just don't like the way it works............which is probably my fault.

[farmersammm]

Yes, that is a can of gasoline

[John T]

For any of the guys on the board nowdays........this is a scarfing tip.

Yeah, thanks grandpa....

Also, thanks for assuming everyone on this board is an idiot.

There are a LOT of talented people on this board... some of them a 1/4 of your age... and they have more talent than you would ever recognize.

The problem is, they are busy working and making a living rather than posting multi-page sagas with 8x10 glossy photos trying to act like Mr. Know it all.

As far as your torch not cutting correctly... It's probably due to neglect like everything else you own.

.... Not being Mr. Negative, but your past actions are examples ... and they are plentiful.

Best of luck.

PS:

please post some more, "my lawnmower won't start" threads..... I LOVE those.

Peace -out.
-JT.

[Freebirdwelds]

I've never really considered heat input when I do it. I only work with mild steel........which has a low carbon content.

I dunno if arc gouging, which I've never done, puts any more heat in the metal than O/A. You're lookin' at melting 1/4 on top of 11ga. The hot spot is where the molten metal actually goes over the edge of the plate before it drops to the ground. It's the accumulation of all the stuff you melted before it reaches the edge of the sheet metal. The hot spot is the only area you might have to dress with the grinder if the molten metal accumulates, and runs back under the parent metal because it didn't fall over the edge. This workpiece required very little dressing to get rid of the slag on the underside.

Is arc gouging capable of any more surgical cut than O/A? Again..........I'm not sure. This workpiece was very thin. I dunno if arc gouging is capable of washing metal, or just cutting a groove in it.

What I can say......is that during cutting with O/A, you can very clearly see the difference between the stuff you're cutting, and the parent metal(I could see the underlying metal on the preceding scarfing job). It's a pretty easy deal. Only variable is whether the O2 stream behaves, and doesn't stray into the parent metal..........which can happen if it hits uncut metal at the wrong temp/cut speed..........it can divert down into the stuff you're trying to save.

The ability to clearly differentiate between the crap you're trying to remove, and the metal underneath it, allows you to be Cyber Knife surgical.

Layers of metal, when heated with O/A will only melt on the top layer. The preheat flame won't heat the underlying surface enough for the O2 stream to oxidize it.......which means it won't be damaged. Sure, it's heated, but it won't cut. I can mess up with the angle of the torch, but that's my bad, not a fault of the process.

I really don't know any method of removing metal, other than using a torch. I have a small Arcair thingy, but I never liked it, and it sits hanging in the shop. I just don't like the way it works............which is probably my fault.

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I'm a huge fan of torch gouging. Been doing it over 45 years. Arc gouging maybe 5 years now. Arc gouging is far superior. You can get Carbons 1/8" - 3/8" (that I know of) in round and oval. If you have 20cfm of air @80psi to the torch, you can do anything with it.

Heat input in mild steel is just as important as carbon steel, just different.

[12V71]

I've never really considered heat input when I do it. I only work with mild steel........which has a low carbon content.

I dunno if arc gouging, which I've never done, puts any more heat in the metal than O/A. You're lookin' at melting 1/4 on top of 11ga. The hot spot is where the molten metal actually goes over the edge of the plate before it drops to the ground. It's the accumulation of all the stuff you melted before it reaches the edge of the sheet metal. The hot spot is the only area you might have to dress with the grinder if the molten metal accumulates, and runs back under the parent metal because it didn't fall over the edge. This workpiece required very little dressing to get rid of the slag on the underside.

Is arc gouging capable of any more surgical cut than O/A? Again..........I'm not sure. This workpiece was very thin. I dunno if arc gouging is capable of washing metal, or just cutting a groove in it.

What I can say......is that during cutting with O/A, you can very clearly see the difference between the stuff you're cutting, and the parent metal(I could see the underlying metal on the preceding scarfing job). It's a pretty easy deal. Only variable is whether the O2 stream behaves, and doesn't stray into the parent metal..........which can happen if it hits uncut metal at the wrong temp/cut speed..........it can divert down into the stuff you're trying to save.

The ability to clearly differentiate between the crap you're trying to remove, and the metal underneath it, allows you to be Cyber Knife surgical.

Layers of metal, when heated with O/A will only melt on the top layer. The preheat flame won't heat the underlying surface enough for the O2 stream to oxidize it.......which means it won't be damaged. Sure, it's heated, but it won't cut. I can mess up with the angle of the torch, but that's my bad, not a fault of the process.

I really don't know any method of removing metal, other than using a torch. I have a small Arcair thingy, but I never liked it, and it sits hanging in the shop. I just don't like the way it works............which is probably my fault.

I hate to say it, but I have seen no small number of shafts that somebody has gouged with a torch removing bearing races. Yeah, it's all about skill but I don't light a torch for bearing races like that. I get the big grinder and take them down to paper thin on one side and they usually "pop" open and slide off, and it puts a lot less heat into the shaft.

[farmersammm]

I've really never considered the heat input because it's far below welding temperatures. Probably in the range of maybe 1200*. The heat signature is close to that temp(eyeballing it), without using a temp stick, or IR thermometer. Same temps as encountered during heat shrinking. Remember, I'm not gouging the parent metal, only removing overlaying metal.

So..........let's say we're gouging the parent metal. You gotta melt it to gouge it. Whether it's melted by a torch, or a carbon rod, it's melted. Somewhere around 2600*. So............you gots a HAZ......same as welding it. You melted it. And...........I recall something about carbon deposits from carbon gouging...can't remeber what it was.

Take it a step further........ Why do we weld mild steel? It's low carbon, and less susceptible to hardening, which lends itself to welding. Can't weld the high alloy steels for that very same reason.........carbon.

We weld torch cut mild steel all day long without a care, so why not gouge/scarf it?

Everything has some reaction to heating. Different kinds of steel react differently. Mild steel is the least susceptible to HAZ issues.

I think, correct me if I'm wrong..............carbon, and oxy, gouging differ in the preheat. Carbon gouging probably hits cutting temps at the get go. Oxy takes a preheat. I'm thinking it's the only difference. Go past that preheat zone, and the Oxy rig is probably doing the same heat input as the carbon rig. Dunno.

As far as shafts go, on the piddly stuff I work on, most of it is plain ol' 1018.........with the exception of stuff that's inside gearboxes, which may be a hardened alloy. Again..........I really don't worry too much about heat input.

The heat input I actually worry about is from excessive welding..........weave patterns. Melting temperatures with accompanying filler material shrinkage when cooling.

I'm just noodlin' around........it's a good topic. I'm not entirely sure I'm right.