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Thread: Can I Run Power 24 Feet Using Liquid Tight Flexible Conduit??

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    Re: Can I Run Power 24 Feet Using Liquid Tight Flexible Conduit??

    Quote Originally Posted by Willie B View Post
    I think a mini split must be a different animal than those I've seen. Those being installed here are heat pumps/air conditioners. The outdoor unit contains the compressor, the indoor unit has no heavy electrical load.

    You are correct, it is unacceptable to use NM-B in wet locations. There is a product sold at any wholesaler where heat pumps are sold listed for the interconnect of outdoor & indoor units.

    As for supply, inspectors vary as to supplying the disconnect with NM-B. I'm more likely to run PVC through the house sill with female adapter & non watertight connector. I strip the jacket & paper off the portion inside the conduit. I haven't had an inspector object to the practice. I've discussed it with one inspector, his answer was you should be using THWN(-2) from indoor to disconnect outdoor.

    It's a concern anywhere you supply any load in a wet location. Light fixtures for example, to comply with the letter of code, must you substitute UF-B for NM-B? You are entering a wet location.
    Here that cable designed to interconnect the indoor and outdoor unit does not fly unless you put it into liquid tight between the house and the outdoor unit so it is really a pain in the butt. For commercial you have to put MC cable in seal tight between the building and outdoor unit. Or the water proof armored cable. But you cannot easily get the armored water proof cable with stranded conductors.

    Sincerely,

    William McCormick
    If I wasn't so.....crazy, I wouldn't try to act normal, and you would be afraid.

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  3. #77
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    Re: Can I Run Power 24 Feet Using Liquid Tight Flexible Conduit??

    Quote Originally Posted by bigb View Post
    There is a code reference for wire that is passed thru an exterior masonry wall, or an earthen wall. Here we have a lot of masonry and mud adobe homes and we are required to run UF to the exterior boxes when they are in masonry or mud adobe, we also are required to sleeve it in PVC where it goes thru the block or the adobe. We also have a code amendment regarding earthen construction and burnt adobe construction (which is baked blocks with no hollow cells), we are allowed to run UF in the mortar joints keeping it the required distance from the finished surface. We are also allowed to run UF in mud adobe. No NM allowed in either of those 2 instances. In more recent years the requirement for wall insulation has made it necessary for new burnt adobe construction to have wood fur outs inside for the insulation which has made wiring them 10 times easier, the older ones are a single wall of 8x8x16 baked adobe blocks, sometimes bare on both sides and sometimes plaster applied directly to the inside surface, no insulation at all. Wiring one of those is not fun and required you to be on site as the masons built the walls.

    Today in the city you cannot cut into anything without first checking for wires trenched into the floor or walls. It is totally unsafe. I hate wires that are trenched into cement walls and floors. I would rather see the conduit.

    Sincerely,

    William McCormick
    If I wasn't so.....crazy, I wouldn't try to act normal, and you would be afraid.

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    Re: Can I Run Power 24 Feet Using Liquid Tight Flexible Conduit??

    Quote Originally Posted by William McCormick View Post
    Here that cable designed to interconnect the indoor and outdoor unit does not fly unless you put it into liquid tight between the house and the outdoor unit so it is really a pain in the butt. For commercial you have to put MC cable in seal tight between the building and outdoor unit. Or the water proof armored cable. But you cannot easily get the armored water proof cable with stranded conductors.

    Sincerely,

    William McCormick
    Yea certainly you wouldn't run MC exposed outside.

    MC cable in sealtite ? Wow, that would be a hack of a job. Never seen or heard of anyone doing that. You would just run THHN in the sealtite.

    MC you don't usually run inside of anything. How would you terminate the MC so the wire is protected from the cut.

    You might possibly use a changeover and go to emt on rare occasion.
    Last edited by danielplace; 07-01-2022 at 02:54 PM.

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    Re: Can I Run Power 24 Feet Using Liquid Tight Flexible Conduit??

    Quote Originally Posted by danielplace View Post
    Yea certainly you wouldn't run MC exposed outside.

    MC cable in sealtite ? Wow, that would be a hack of a job. Never seen or heard of anyone doing that. You would just run THHN in the sealtite.

    MC you don't usually run inside of anything. How would you terminate the MC so the wire is protected from the cut.

    You might possibly use a changeover and go to emt on rare occasion.
    Commercial inside the building you have to use MC cable, which you are not supposed to cut or splice according to the manufacturer. Outside you cannot run MC cable so you have to run it in liquid tight. But inspectors want to see the liquid tight terminated in a box inside, so it gets dicey.

    As far as the the PVC coated MC cable, they make water tight connectors for it. But it is expensive you end up spending over six hundred dollars to run five 50 foot runs. Not really any worse than buying the liquid tight and pulling a NM cable through it, unless you are getting the NM cable for free with the equipment. It is much easier to buy the PVC coated MC cable and fittings.

    Sincerely,

    William McCormick
    Last edited by William McCormick; 07-02-2022 at 11:01 PM. Reason: Changed by to buy
    If I wasn't so.....crazy, I wouldn't try to act normal, and you would be afraid.

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    Re: Can I Run Power 24 Feet Using Liquid Tight Flexible Conduit??

    Quote Originally Posted by danielplace View Post
    Yea certainly you wouldn't run MC exposed outside.

    MC cable in sealtite ? Wow, that would be a hack of a job. Never seen or heard of anyone doing that. You would just run THHN in the sealtite.

    MC you don't usually run inside of anything. How would you terminate the MC so the wire is protected from the cut.

    You might possibly use a changeover and go to emt on rare occasion.

    You cannot run THHN in liquid tight outside unless you are going to run it like that inside or switch to Greenfield inside, what a pain in the butt that would be and inspectors do not allow THHN inside in liquid tight conduit on commercial. According to the manufacturer you cannot cut the wires it has to be a continuous piece of wire. Usually the MC cable in liquid tight is concealed in a plastic trough outside of the building, so you only see the seal tight from where it leaves the trough and goes about 12 to 18 inches to the machine.

    Sincerely,

    William McCormick
    Last edited by William McCormick; 07-02-2022 at 11:14 PM. Reason: added "liquid tight"
    If I wasn't so.....crazy, I wouldn't try to act normal, and you would be afraid.

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    Re: Can I Run Power 24 Feet Using Liquid Tight Flexible Conduit??

    Quote Originally Posted by danielplace View Post
    Yea certainly you wouldn't run MC exposed outside.

    MC cable in sealtite ? Wow, that would be a hack of a job. Never seen or heard of anyone doing that. You would just run THHN in the sealtite.

    MC you don't usually run inside of anything. How would you terminate the MC so the wire is protected from the cut.

    You might possibly use a changeover and go to emt on rare occasion.
    Here are ten indoor units connected to two outdoor units. Which would be better, SJO cord, the four wire stranded NM cable, or either in liquid tight. I think either of them in liquid tight.

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    Sincerely,

    William McCormick
    If I wasn't so.....crazy, I wouldn't try to act normal, and you would be afraid.

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    Re: Can I Run Power 24 Feet Using Liquid Tight Flexible Conduit??

    Quote Originally Posted by danielplace View Post
    Yea certainly you wouldn't run MC exposed outside.

    MC cable in sealtite ? Wow, that would be a hack of a job. Never seen or heard of anyone doing that. You would just run THHN in the sealtite.

    MC you don't usually run inside of anything. How would you terminate the MC so the wire is protected from the cut.

    You might possibly use a changeover and go to emt on rare occasion.
    When I run MC cable in seal tight outside I connect the liquid tight to the unit and pass the MC cable through it and terminate it with an MIGB (Metallic, Insulated, Grounding, Bushing) inside the enclosure and bond it with the wire from the MIGB.

    Sincerely,

    William McCormick
    If I wasn't so.....crazy, I wouldn't try to act normal, and you would be afraid.

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    Re: Can I Run Power 24 Feet Using Liquid Tight Flexible Conduit??

    You have some very strange ways of suggesting to do electrical work. They are not normal. Wiring of mulit family residential you may find just about anything I realize and at some point at times the inspectors must just gave up and allowed some of the non-standard practices to be used.

    THHN not allowed in sealtite. Surely you jest. How can you even say something so foolish ? Of course THHN is what electricians put in sealtite.

    MC can't be cut or spliced. That is a bit comical too. What you you do in every box when running it from one to the next. You splice MC at every box. Does everything come from a breaker and dead end. Of course you splice MC with wire nuts just like romex would. Same as romex just armored for commercial use.

    Where are the disconnects in your picture. The MC should come through the back into the disconnect where it terminates into the line side lugs and then THHN in sealtite to the unit. If they somehow had integral disconnects then you change over in bell box or similar w/p box.

    Were the disconnects built into those units or what ? still should still you never sleeve MC in sealtite. I recon whatever they will let you get away with. How would you terminate the MC inside legally as well as the sealtite at the same end.

    Sorry for giving you grief all the time about how you do so many things electrical but in over 40 years of doing electrical I have never expirienced so many of the ways you are doing things. Must just be location or something but in South Florida it is done right and proper most of the time or you won't get a inspection to pass.
    Last edited by danielplace; 07-03-2022 at 12:13 PM.

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    Re: Can I Run Power 24 Feet Using Liquid Tight Flexible Conduit??

    Quote Originally Posted by danielplace View Post
    You have some very strange ways of suggesting to do electrical work. They are not normal. Wiring of mulit family residential you may find just about anything I realize and at some point at times the inspectors must just gave up and allowed some of the non-standard practices to be used.

    THHN not allowed in sealtite. Surely you jest. How can you even say something so foolish ? Of course THHN is what electricians put in sealtite.

    MC can't be cut or spliced. That is a bit comical too. What you you do in every box when running it from one to the next. You splice MC at every box. Does everything come from a breaker and dead end. Of course you splice MC with wire nuts just like romex would. Same as romex just armored for commercial use.

    Where are the disconnects in your picture. The MC should come through the back into the disconnect where it terminates into the line side lugs and then THHN in sealtite to the unit. If they somehow had integral disconnects then you change over in bell box or similar w/p box.

    Were the disconnects built into those units or what ? still should still you never sleeve MC in sealtite. I recon whatever they will let you get away with. How would you terminate the MC inside legally as well as the sealtite at the same end.

    Sorry for giving you grief all the time about how you do so many things electrical but in over 40 years of doing electrical I have never expirienced so many of the ways you are doing things. Must just be location or something but in South Florida it is done right and proper most of the time or you won't get a inspection to pass.
    I'm splitting hairs here. THHN is almost always dual rated as THWN. Without the THWN rating, it shouldn't be outdoors (wet, or damp location).
    An optimist is usually wrong, and when the unexpected happens is unprepared. A pessimist is usually right, when wrong, is delighted, and well prepared.

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    Re: Can I Run Power 24 Feet Using Liquid Tight Flexible Conduit??

    Quote Originally Posted by Willie B View Post
    I'm splitting hairs here. THHN is almost always dual rated as THWN. Without the THWN rating, it shouldn't be outdoors (wet, or damp location).
    Same wire.

    Yea all modern THHN is also dual rated THWN or THWN-2 also so yea it is rated for outside in wet location.

    It is all dual rated that I have ever seen in more than 40 years.

    I have never seen a straight THHN wire that wasn't rated THWN or THWN-2 also.

    Before THHN it was all TW out of cardboard boxes. You guy's remember that ? You used no building wire from spools all your 14 and 12 gauge was solid TW out of boxes you pull out of the center. It wasn't shiny and slick with that thin clear outer skin like THHN/THWN(-2)

    MC for sure can not be used in wet locations anymore than Greenfield would be.
    Last edited by danielplace; 07-03-2022 at 10:25 PM.

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    Re: Can I Run Power 24 Feet Using Liquid Tight Flexible Conduit??

    Quote Originally Posted by danielplace View Post
    You have some very strange ways of suggesting to do electrical work. They are not normal. Wiring of mulit family residential you may find just about anything I realize and at some point at times the inspectors must just gave up and allowed some of the non-standard practices to be used.

    THHN not allowed in sealtite. Surely you jest. How can you even say something so foolish ? Of course THHN is what electricians put in sealtite.

    MC can't be cut or spliced. That is a bit comical too. What you you do in every box when running it from one to the next. You splice MC at every box. Does everything come from a breaker and dead end. Of course you splice MC with wire nuts just like romex would. Same as romex just armored for commercial use.

    Where are the disconnects in your picture. The MC should come through the back into the disconnect where it terminates into the line side lugs and then THHN in sealtite to the unit. If they somehow had integral disconnects then you change over in bell box or similar w/p box.

    Were the disconnects built into those units or what ? still should still you never sleeve MC in sealtite. I recon whatever they will let you get away with. How would you terminate the MC inside legally as well as the sealtite at the same end.

    Sorry for giving you grief all the time about how you do so many things electrical but in over 40 years of doing electrical I have never expirienced so many of the ways you are doing things. Must just be location or something but in South Florida it is done right and proper most of the time or you won't get a inspection to pass.
    When you run MC cable for mini splits Mitsubishi the manufacturer says the wire must not be spliced it must be one conductor with no splices. So you cannot switch from THWN in seal tight to MC cable to run through the commercial building. I am not stating anything strange here. You just do not want to see the problem. You really only can use PVC coated MC cable in commercial buildings without jumping through hoops. And inspectors will not let you run 50 or more feet of liquid tight with THWN through the building like they would MC cable.

    In residential they will not let you run THWN single conductors through liquid tight from the outdoor unit to the indoor units, but they will let you run a cable in liquid tight. But I prefer PVC coated MC cable, if I can get it. Lately I cannot get much of anything.

    You are mixing supply power and indoor unit control wiring. The supply power comes from a disconnect on the left side of the unit, and single conductors in liquid tight attach to the unit. The other liquid tight contains the power and controls for the indoor units. I will be honest I am jumping around between commercial and residential as well, but only because I am being asked about both. In that picture there is no MC cable at all. There is none right now around here. There is a cable in the liquid tight for the indoor units.

    Sincerely,

    William McCormick
    If I wasn't so.....crazy, I wouldn't try to act normal, and you would be afraid.

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    Re: Can I Run Power 24 Feet Using Liquid Tight Flexible Conduit??

    Quote Originally Posted by William McCormick View Post
    When you run MC cable for mini splits Mitsubishi the manufacturer says the wire must not be spliced it must be one conductor with no splices. So you cannot switch from THWN in seal tight to MC cable to run through the commercial building. I am not stating anything strange here. You just do not want to see the problem. You really only can use PVC coated MC cable in commercial buildings without jumping through hoops. And inspectors will not let you run 50 or more feet of liquid tight with THWN through the building like they would MC cable.

    In residential they will not let you run THWN single conductors through liquid tight from the outdoor unit to the indoor units, but they will let you run a cable in liquid tight. But I prefer PVC coated MC cable, if I can get it. Lately I cannot get much of anything.

    You are mixing supply power and indoor unit control wiring. The supply power comes from a disconnect on the left side of the unit, and single conductors in liquid tight attach to the unit. The other liquid tight contains the power and controls for the indoor units. I will be honest I am jumping around between commercial and residential as well, but only because I am being asked about both. In that picture there is no MC cable at all. There is none right now around here. There is a cable in the liquid tight for the indoor units.

    Sincerely,

    William McCormick
    Ah I see we couldn't see the power coming in on the othe side and the wire in the sealtite is the factory interconnect cable.

    I do not get the relevance of the picture to the MC being in sealtite we were discussing.

    You should never be running MC for anything outdoors in wet location so the manufacturer saying it should be continuous is of little meaning as most of the condensers would be in a wet location.

    Short flexible connection in Sealtite and Carflex belong outside and Greenfield or MC inside are normal wiring methods to me.

    I sure hope they wouldn't allow over 50 feet sealtite run in a building. It doesn't belong there at all even if legal technically. You use it outside in short length for flexible connections. You use greenfield for short length flexible connections and EMT for the rest indoors.

    I recon it is just a different world where you working and the methods used and preferred.
    Last edited by danielplace; 07-03-2022 at 10:54 PM.

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    Re: Can I Run Power 24 Feet Using Liquid Tight Flexible Conduit??

    Quote Originally Posted by danielplace View Post
    Ah I see we couldn't see the power coming in on the othe side and the wire in the sealtite is the factory interconnect cable.

    I do not get the relevance of the picture to the MC being in sealtite we were discussing.

    You should never be running MC for anything outdoors in wet location so the manufacturer saying it should be continuous is of little meaning as most of the condensers would be in a wet location.

    Short flexible connection in Sealtite and Carflex belong outside and Greenfield or MC inside are normal wiring methods to me.

    I sure hope they wouldn't allow over 50 feet sealtite run in a building. It doesn't belong there at all even if legal technically. You use it outside in short length for flexible connections. You use greenfield for short length flexible connections and EMT for the rest indoors.

    I recon it is just a different world where you working and the methods used and preferred.
    The control wiring in commercial buildings because it is 240 volt power, must be MC cable. The problem is that when you go to leave the building you have to cover it in liquid tight. We cannot run NM cable in commercial buildings. And Mitsubishi states that the conductor must not be spliced between the indoor and outdoor unit or it voids the warranty. And since the units and accessories can cost ten grand I am not going to do that.

    Even in residential we cannot run the NM control cable from the building to the unit without putting it in liquid tight. Which is right and good practice. It is just a PITA. PVC coated MC cable fixes it all.

    In commercial it is pipe outside to the disconnect, or EMC inside to the disconnect, but usually MC cable to the disconnect. And then liquid tight from the disconnect to the unit, with single conductor THWN-2.

    Sincerely,

    William McCormick
    If I wasn't so.....crazy, I wouldn't try to act normal, and you would be afraid.

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    Re: Can I Run Power 24 Feet Using Liquid Tight Flexible Conduit??

    Quote Originally Posted by danielplace View Post
    Ah I see we couldn't see the power coming in on the othe side and the wire in the sealtite is the factory interconnect cable.

    I do not get the relevance of the picture to the MC being in sealtite we were discussing.

    You should never be running MC for anything outdoors in wet location so the manufacturer saying it should be continuous is of little meaning as most of the condensers would be in a wet location.

    Short flexible connection in Sealtite and Carflex belong outside and Greenfield or MC inside are normal wiring methods to me.

    I sure hope they wouldn't allow over 50 feet sealtite run in a building. It doesn't belong there at all even if legal technically. You use it outside in short length for flexible connections. You use greenfield for short length flexible connections and EMT for the rest indoors.

    I recon it is just a different world where you working and the methods used and preferred.
    About the relevance I was explaining both commercial and residential problems without using PVC coated MC cable and I was just showing all involved what some of these beasts look like. Those units are often wired with SJO cord supplied by the manufacturer that sits outside 24/7. To me that is wrong. Even the NM control wire that is used is really not supposed to be exposed.

    Sincerely,

    William McCormick
    If I wasn't so.....crazy, I wouldn't try to act normal, and you would be afraid.

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    Re: Can I Run Power 24 Feet Using Liquid Tight Flexible Conduit??

    Quote Originally Posted by William McCormick View Post
    The control wiring in commercial buildings because it is 240 volt power, must be MC cable. The problem is that when you go to leave the building you have to cover it in liquid tight. We cannot run NM cable in commercial buildings. And Mitsubishi states that the conductor must not be spliced between the indoor and outdoor unit or it voids the warranty. And since the units and accessories can cost ten grand I am not going to do that.

    Even in residential we cannot run the NM control cable from the building to the unit without putting it in liquid tight. Which is right and good practice. It is just a PITA. PVC coated MC cable fixes it all.

    In commercial it is pipe outside to the disconnect, or EMC inside to the disconnect, but usually MC cable to the disconnect. And then liquid tight from the disconnect to the unit, with single conductor THWN-2.

    Sincerely,

    William McCormick
    Quote Originally Posted by William McCormick View Post
    About the relevance I was explaining both commercial and residential problems without using PVC coated MC cable and I was just showing all involved what some of these beasts look like. Those units are often wired with SJO cord supplied by the manufacturer that sits outside 24/7. To me that is wrong. Even the NM control wire that is used is really not supposed to be exposed.

    Sincerely,

    William McCormick

    These minisplit installations still must meet the code to be installed and get a proper inspection that is meeting the NEC code. The code doesn't go out the window because some manufacturer is clueless to the NEC and proper wiring methods. There is a code that says manufactured instructions need to be followed but most AHJ do not accept those instructions as a way to trump the NEC requirements while another may allow certain things to be done that is not otherwise normal based on the code versus the manufacture's instructions.

    Other than where the AHJ has made a written amendment to allow some particular process to be allowed that would be normally because of the conflict you have to have a NEC legal installation.

    Romex(NM) doesn't go outside. Not even sleeved in sealtite or Carflex. It is not right or good practice as it is illegal. Even if it came like that as a interconnect cable. You would have to change it to meet code.

    SJO as is not permitted to be run concealed by walls, floors, or ceilings or located above suspended or dropped ceilings. Nec 400 on flexible cords. Flexible cords are not used as a wiring method. As such they are in their own code section.

    https://www.ecmweb.com/national-elec...d-fixture-wire

    When we install mini splits in South Florida almost none of that factory supplied garbage gets used and they are wired in traditional NEC legal wiring methods just the same as any other system would be wired. It all goes in the scrap bin, and you do it right and correctly.
    Last edited by danielplace; 07-04-2022 at 10:10 AM.

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    Re: Can I Run Power 24 Feet Using Liquid Tight Flexible Conduit??

    Quote Originally Posted by danielplace View Post
    These minisplit installations still must meet the code to be installed and get a inspection. The code doesn't go out the window because some manufacturer is clueless to the NEC and proper wiring methods.

    Romex(NM) doesn't go outside. Not even sleeved in sealtite or Carflex. It is not right or good practice as it is illegal. Even if it came like that as a interconnect cable. You would have to change it to meet code.

    SJO as is not permitted to be run concealed by walls, floors, or ceilings or located above suspended or dropped ceilings. Nec 400 on flexible cords.
    You do not have to tell me about the code violations. All I see is code violations. There is a four wire NM cable that is “designed” for mini splits it is stranded three conductor with a ground and if you go to any supply house and ask for mini split control wire they will bring you out a 250’ roll of it. It is wrong though and does not meet code where it leaves the building. It has THWN-2 wire in it so when you put it in liquid tight it is ok. If you put SJO cord in liquid tight it is OK as well as the cable is rated for outdoor and wet locations.

    Here is a Mitsubishi Hyper Heat, with a branch box that makes it easier to get through the wall, there is just one power cable to the branch box and one control cable to the branch box, both are rated as high voltage. From the branch box you can just run regular MC cable to the indoor units. But the two MC cables that go through the wall from the branch box to the outdoor unit have to be covered in liquid tight to be make code. Once in the electrical enclosure of the unit, I just have to bond the MC cable to the grounded unit casing.

    If you splice control wire Mitsubishi will not honor the warranty.

    There is a supply power disconnect on the left side of the unit.

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    With these units you have to weigh in the refrigerant from a scale based on how long the runs are to the branch box and or the indoor units. All the mini splits are like that now. There is no more high pressure port.

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    Sincerely,

    William McCormick
    Last edited by William McCormick; 07-04-2022 at 09:45 AM.
    If I wasn't so.....crazy, I wouldn't try to act normal, and you would be afraid.

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    Re: Can I Run Power 24 Feet Using Liquid Tight Flexible Conduit??

    On commercial buildings where the mini split units were cut off the roof to put on a new commercial roof that is many inches higher than the old roof, I have used underground splice kits in a small plastic outdoor box with liquid tight in and out, and the units performed as expected. They really are afraid of sparks from a bad connection.


    Sincerely,

    William McCormick
    If I wasn't so.....crazy, I wouldn't try to act normal, and you would be afraid.

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    Re: Can I Run Power 24 Feet Using Liquid Tight Flexible Conduit??

    This is the disconnect for the unit. I did not install that.

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    Sincerely,

    William McCormick
    If I wasn't so.....crazy, I wouldn't try to act normal, and you would be afraid.

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    Re: Can I Run Power 24 Feet Using Liquid Tight Flexible Conduit??

    AC has always been a problem for electricians. If you have multiple AC systems fed by one panel box, there is the chance that all of them may come on at once. So on jobs like that I install time delay on relays all with different delays. Otherwise even a 400 amp box will see a 270 amp draw as three five ton units start after a power outage, or every time the thermostat calls multiple units.

    Sincerely,

    William McCormick
    If I wasn't so.....crazy, I wouldn't try to act normal, and you would be afraid.

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    Re: Can I Run Power 24 Feet Using Liquid Tight Flexible Conduit??

    Quote Originally Posted by danielplace View Post
    These minisplit installations still must meet the code to be installed and get a proper inspection that is meeting the NEC code. The code doesn't go out the window because some manufacturer is clueless to the NEC and proper wiring methods. There is a code that says manufactured instructions need to be followed but most AHJ do not accept those instructions as a way to trump the NEC requirements while another may allow certain things to be done that is not otherwise normal based on the code versus the manufacture's instructions.

    Other than where the AHJ has made a written amendment to allow some particular process to be allowed that would be normally because of the conflict you have to have a NEC legal installation.

    Romex(NM) doesn't go outside. Not even sleeved in sealtite or Carflex. It is not right or good practice as it is illegal. Even if it came like that as a interconnect cable. You would have to change it to meet code.

    SJO as is not permitted to be run concealed by walls, floors, or ceilings or located above suspended or dropped ceilings. Nec 400 on flexible cords. Flexible cords are not used as a wiring method. As such they are in their own code section.

    https://www.ecmweb.com/national-elec...d-fixture-wire

    When we install mini splits in South Florida almost none of that factory supplied garbage gets used and they are wired in traditional NEC legal wiring methods just the same as any other system would be wired. It all goes in the scrap bin, and you do it right and correctly.
    So my question is what are you going to use for wire from the indoor units to the outdoor units for power and control wire?

    My choice is PVC coated MC cable. As nothing else meets code alone.

    Sincerely,

    William McCormick
    If I wasn't so.....crazy, I wouldn't try to act normal, and you would be afraid.

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    Re: Can I Run Power 24 Feet Using Liquid Tight Flexible Conduit??

    All outdoor conduit, including sealtight, is a wet location per NEC, therefore must contain only wet location rated conductors. If I was working where William is and if it is true what he is saying I would be challenging those inspectors and I would end up changing things or getting run out of town, or maybe becoming an inspector myself. Challenged a few here and won, was very diplomatic about it and only once ended up with hard feelings but that jerk ended up getting fired by the city anyway.
    Last edited by bigb; 07-04-2022 at 11:19 AM.
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    Re: Can I Run Power 24 Feet Using Liquid Tight Flexible Conduit??

    Quote Originally Posted by William McCormick View Post
    So my question is what are you going to use for wire from the indoor units to the outdoor units for power and control wire?

    My choice is PVC coated MC cable. As nothing else meets code alone.

    Sincerely,

    William McCormick
    Residential use wiring for indoor like NM, EMT or PVC if commercial the MC, EMT or PVC to a PVC or Bell box or disconnect on the wall then change to THHN/THWN in Carflex or sealtite to get the flexible connection to the unit.

    I have never expected to be able to take same wire from inside to be able to go all the way to the unit with it by sleeving it. I will admit I have taken romex down the line cover the ran PVC out of side of the line cover to the disconnect and gotten inspections many times like that.
    If it were new construction, then I would run a piece of EMT with a 90 at the top and a 90 through the wall into the back of the disconnect with romex for residential and THHN/THWN pulled in for commercial. If existing then PVC from above down to the disconnect. Inspectors have never turned that down either even though you got romex going outside they must know it is dry and safe.

    HAPPY 4th of JULY !!!!!!
    Last edited by danielplace; 07-04-2022 at 12:21 PM.

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    Re: Can I Run Power 24 Feet Using Liquid Tight Flexible Conduit??

    Quote Originally Posted by bigb View Post
    All outdoor conduit, including sealtight, is a wet location per NEC, therefore must contain only wet location rated conductors. If I was working where William is and if it is true what he is saying I would be challenging those inspectors and I would end up changing things or getting run out of town, or maybe becoming an inspector myself. Challenged a few here and won, was very diplomatic about it and only once ended up with hard feelings but that jerk ended up getting fired by the city anyway.
    It is a rough one. Some of the indoor units no longer have a place to land MC cable so they really cannot be used in commercial facilities.

    They sell the STOW cable or STJOW cable for interconnecting the indoor and outdoor units but, that is temporary cable as well, so it is all just a joke at this point. I think the inspectors had to give up or people would not be able to install them. I was always for a good safe job, and I think the manufacturers rather than really put some effort into coming up with great products to install their AC systems started creating problems for just about any type of wire.

    Like I said I am for PVC coated MC cable, which was not available around here for a long time. It stops the RF for control purposes when run together with other control wires.

    Sincerely,

    William McCormick
    If I wasn't so.....crazy, I wouldn't try to act normal, and you would be afraid.

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    Re: Can I Run Power 24 Feet Using Liquid Tight Flexible Conduit??

    Quote Originally Posted by danielplace View Post
    Residential use wiring for indoor like NM, EMT or PVC if commercial the MC, EMT or PVC to a PVC or Bell box or disconnect on the wall then change to THHN/THWN in Carflex or sealtite to get the flexible connection to the unit.

    I have never expected to be able to take same wire from inside to be able to go all the way to the unit with it by sleeving it. I will admit I have taken romex down the line cover the ran PVC out of side of the line cover to the disconnect and gotten inspections many times like that.
    If it were new construction, then I would run a piece of EMT with a 90 at the top and a 90 through the wall into the back of the disconnect with romex for residential and THHN/THWN pulled in for commercial. If existing then PVC from above down to the disconnect. Inspectors have never turned that down either even though you got romex going outside they must know it is dry and safe.

    HAPPY 4th of JULY !!!!!!
    We have the supply power covered, but the power and control wiring between the outdoor and indoor unit is the problem, it is high voltage 240 volts. The wire cannot be spliced or you lose the warranty on the equipment which is pricey. That is the wire that causes problems. STOW or STJOW both are temporary wires. And in commercial they are not allowed to be run in the open outside. So it is just a Cluster barrage.

    Sincerely,

    William McCormick
    If I wasn't so.....crazy, I wouldn't try to act normal, and you would be afraid.

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    Re: Can I Run Power 24 Feet Using Liquid Tight Flexible Conduit??

    Quote Originally Posted by William McCormick View Post
    We have the supply power covered, but the power and control wiring between the outdoor and indoor unit is the problem, it is high voltage 240 volts. The wire cannot be spliced or you lose the warranty on the equipment which is pricey. That is the wire that causes problems. STOW or STJOW both are temporary wires. And in commercial they are not allowed to be run in the open outside. So it is just a Cluster barrage.

    Sincerely,

    William McCormick
    I hear you man. Trying to please everyone when the rules of play aren't in anyone's favor. There does need to be some exceptions/clarifications made for these things so the installers don't go crazy. Some AHJ's have actual taken some steps with amendments and acceptable ways they will accept the installs.

    The manufacturers are often attempting to make it a DIY kit so easy anyone can do it but seem to completely throw the NEC codes out the window.
    Last edited by danielplace; 07-04-2022 at 02:54 PM.

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