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Thread: Can I Run Power 24 Feet Using Liquid Tight Flexible Conduit??

  1. #101
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    Re: Can I Run Power 24 Feet Using Liquid Tight Flexible Conduit??

    Quote Originally Posted by danielplace View Post
    Ah I see we couldn't see the power coming in on the othe side and the wire in the sealtite is the factory interconnect cable.

    I do not get the relevance of the picture to the MC being in sealtite we were discussing.

    You should never be running MC for anything outdoors in wet location so the manufacturer saying it should be continuous is of little meaning as most of the condensers would be in a wet location.

    Short flexible connection in Sealtite and Carflex belong outside and Greenfield or MC inside are normal wiring methods to me.

    I sure hope they wouldn't allow over 50 feet sealtite run in a building. It doesn't belong there at all even if legal technically. You use it outside in short length for flexible connections. You use greenfield for short length flexible connections and EMT for the rest indoors.

    I recon it is just a different world where you working and the methods used and preferred.
    Sealtite, (non metallic liquid tight), LFNC is expensive. It is sticky, hard to pull conductors through. Never seen it used except where flexibility, or a compound bend is needed. No reason you can't use rigid non metallic conduit to run the length of the run, finish with Sealtite. Sealtite is normally used from the machine disconnect to the machine. Lengths of up to 3' need no supports other than terminator connectors.

    I'd have to research the actual language in code & local inspectors may vary in their interpretation of code. Inspectors where I live are OK with removing the outer jacket of NM-B cable where the conductors run through LFNC. One said "It's the same conductor as THWN". In the hair splitting of code, it ain't THWN if it doesn't say THWN on it, but some inspectors allow it.
    An optimist is usually wrong, and when the unexpected happens is unprepared. A pessimist is usually right, when wrong, is delighted, and well prepared.

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  3. #102
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    Re: Can I Run Power 24 Feet Using Liquid Tight Flexible Conduit??

    Sealtite is technically limited in use by this code, They can say it is subject to damage just like anywhere they would require schedule 80 PVC. Thankfully they do allow us to hook up a/c condensers with the stuff. We used to be required to use sealtite for the high voltage and only use Carflex for the low voltage. Now Carflex is allowed for the high and the low voltage. Originally when I started in the trade up to like 30 years ago they would allow 18/2 t stat wire to be run free taped to the refrigerant lines or the sealtite.
    Even without the Metal in it teh Carflex is more durable than ealtite is actually. If sealtite gets pulled or step on the corrogated metal inside gets damaged or undone and can actaully cut into the conductors inside. This is why you would want it where subject to damage. To a inspector that can be anywhere outdoors less than 48" above grade. The Carflex though still has the same subject to damage restriction on it too so no more legal in these locations but we sure enough use both for pumps and condensers and such outdoors subject to damage all over every day and pass inspections.

    Article 350 Liquidtight Flexible Metal Conduit Type LFMC

    350.12

    Uses Not Permitted

    It cannot be installed when subject to damage or where temperatures exceed that which is approved for the material.
    Last edited by danielplace; 07-04-2022 at 04:33 PM.

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  5. #103
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    Re: Can I Run Power 24 Feet Using Liquid Tight Flexible Conduit??

    Quote Originally Posted by danielplace View Post
    Sealtite is technically limited in use by this code, They can say it is subject to damage just like anywhere they would require schedule 80 PVC. Thankfully they do allow us to hook up a/c condensers with the stuff. We used to be required to use sealtite for the high voltage and only use Carflex for the low voltage. Now Carflex is allowed for the high and the low voltage. Originally when I started in the trade up to like 30 years ago they would allow 18/2 t stat wire to be run free taped to the refrigerant lines or the sealtite.
    Even without the Metal in it teh Carflex is more durable than ealtite is actually. If sealtite gets pulled or step on the corrogated metal inside gets damaged or undone and can actaully cut into the conductors inside. This is why you would want it where subject to damage. To a inspector that can be anywhere outdoors less than 48" above grade. The Carflex though still has the same subject to damage restriction on it too so no more legal in these locations but we sure enough use both for pumps and condensers and such outdoors subject to damage all over every day and pass inspections.

    Article 350 Liquidtight Flexible Metal Conduit Type LFMC

    350.12

    Uses Not Permitted

    It cannot be installed when subject to damage or where temperatures exceed that which is approved for the material.
    The THWN or THWN-2 is not even water proof. The proof is how many I have pulled out of rigid pipe installed outside because they were shorting out to ground. Rather new THWN-2 wire sitting in water is not a good plan. It was condensation that was causing the water in the rigid pipe most of the time.

    When we wire in wet locations we use XLP or XHHW-2 that seems to hold up well soaking in water. In theory that wire and insulation is what should be on the conductors in wet locations. When I put in a service for friends or family that is what I use. The black colored insulation is UV proof too. That is the same wire that connects the compressor to the contactor in a condenser.

    I find rotted wire in whips rather often, the clear comes off and the inner jacket starts to deteriorate.

    I am not trying to cause anyone grief I am just sharing some of mine.

    Sincerely,

    William McCormick
    If I wasn't so.....crazy, I wouldn't try to act normal, and you would be afraid.

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  7. #104
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    Re: Can I Run Power 24 Feet Using Liquid Tight Flexible Conduit??

    Quote Originally Posted by danielplace View Post
    Sealtite is technically limited in use by this code, They can say it is subject to damage just like anywhere they would require schedule 80 PVC. Thankfully they do allow us to hook up a/c condensers with the stuff. We used to be required to use sealtite for the high voltage and only use Carflex for the low voltage. Now Carflex is allowed for the high and the low voltage. Originally when I started in the trade up to like 30 years ago they would allow 18/2 t stat wire to be run free taped to the refrigerant lines or the sealtite.
    Even without the Metal in it teh Carflex is more durable than ealtite is actually. If sealtite gets pulled or step on the corrogated metal inside gets damaged or undone and can actaully cut into the conductors inside. This is why you would want it where subject to damage. To a inspector that can be anywhere outdoors less than 48" above grade. The Carflex though still has the same subject to damage restriction on it too so no more legal in these locations but we sure enough use both for pumps and condensers and such outdoors subject to damage all over every day and pass inspections.

    Article 350 Liquidtight Flexible Metal Conduit Type LFMC

    350.12

    Uses Not Permitted

    It cannot be installed when subject to damage or where temperatures exceed that which is approved for the material.
    We've had trouble with metallic liquidtight. If vibration is present, the insulation wears out against the steel. We switch out metallic to non metallic.
    An optimist is usually wrong, and when the unexpected happens is unprepared. A pessimist is usually right, when wrong, is delighted, and well prepared.

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  9. #105
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    Re: Can I Run Power 24 Feet Using Liquid Tight Flexible Conduit??

    Quote Originally Posted by Willie B View Post
    We've had trouble with metallic liquidtight. If vibration is present, the insulation wears out against the steel. We switch out metallic to non metallic.
    Yup same here. No one installs the metallic anymore it crushes easily now too. It is not galvanized well either.

    Sincerely,

    William McCormick
    If I wasn't so.....crazy, I wouldn't try to act normal, and you would be afraid.

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  11. #106
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    Re: Can I Run Power 24 Feet Using Liquid Tight Flexible Conduit??

    Quote Originally Posted by Willie B View Post
    We've had trouble with metallic liquidtight. If vibration is present, the insulation wears out against the steel. We switch out metallic to non metallic.
    I live on Long Island but even in the five boroughs because of the water on their shores, liquid tight with metal fills with water and starts making chemicals that eat right through the THWN or THWN-2 coating. It does the same thing in the non metallic liquid tight as well. It is condensation that causes it. Even in rigid pipe outdoors condensation builds up and eats through the THWN-2 coating, so we replace it XLP, XHHN-2 wire. That stuff is pretty tough never replaced that. In places like sewage treatment plants that is all you can use.

    Sometimes you find they pour cement and encase the liquid tight partially in the cement. The problem is that it stays cold in the cement and warm air condensates in that area filling the liquid tight with water. The wire just disintegrates.

    Sincerely,

    William McCormick
    If I wasn't so.....crazy, I wouldn't try to act normal, and you would be afraid.

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  13. #107
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    Re: Can I Run Power 24 Feet Using Liquid Tight Flexible Conduit??

    We are in the rust belt. State road managers won't admit they do it to force us to buy new vehicles. Now, every night September to May, they slime the roads with brine, roughly comparable to driving in sea water.
    We don't get salt in the flex conduit, but any raceway ought to be blocked to stop moist air from migrating. Stop cold humid air movement, stop condensation.
    An optimist is usually wrong, and when the unexpected happens is unprepared. A pessimist is usually right, when wrong, is delighted, and well prepared.

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  15. #108
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    Re: Can I Run Power 24 Feet Using Liquid Tight Flexible Conduit??

    Aint that what the gray putty that seems to migrate around the tool box is for?

  16. #109
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    Re: Can I Run Power 24 Feet Using Liquid Tight Flexible Conduit??

    Duct seal baby.

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  18. #110
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    Re: Can I Run Power 24 Feet Using Liquid Tight Flexible Conduit??

    Quote Originally Posted by Willie B View Post
    We are in the rust belt. State road managers won't admit they do it to force us to buy new vehicles. Now, every night September to May, they slime the roads with brine, roughly comparable to driving in sea water.
    We don't get salt in the flex conduit, but any raceway ought to be blocked to stop moist air from migrating. Stop cold humid air movement, stop condensation.
    Yep I put some emt on a buddy's house on the beach in Mexico and in a few years it was already dissolving. I learned right away to use PVC there from now on. The local Mexican electricians mount indoor disconnects right on the pole in the street, 30 amp standard and 50 amps for the rich Americans. A two space indoor box with no cover, just a deadfront, the breaker is just out there in the weather. They last about 4 years. When my buddy's went bad we gutted it and spliced in new wires to a 3R box I brought and mounted it facing inside the yard then sealed up the old box. They don't really care what you do down there, the meter rings don't even have a seal.
    These are brand new services from 2012, the first year electricity became available to the village. To replace the equipment on some you have to chisel them out of the stucco. Notice no breaker handle ties either.
    But none of this is important compared to the fishing and the Margaritas.
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  20. #111
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    Re: Can I Run Power 24 Feet Using Liquid Tight Flexible Conduit??

    Quote Originally Posted by bigb View Post
    Yep I put some emt on a buddy's house on the beach in Mexico and in a few years it was already dissolving. I learned right away to use PVC there from now on. The local Mexican electricians mount indoor disconnects right on the pole in the street, 30 amp standard and 50 amps for the rich Americans. A two space indoor box with no cover, just a deadfront, the breaker is just out there in the weather. They last about 4 years. When my buddy's went bad we gutted it and spliced in new wires to a 3R box I brought and mounted it facing inside the yard then sealed up the old box. They don't really care what you do down there, the meter rings don't even have a seal.
    These are brand new services from 2012, the first year electricity became available to the village. To replace the equipment on some you have to chisel them out of the stucco. Notice no breaker handle ties either.
    But none of this is important compared to the fishing and the Margaritas.
    We see that stuff in do it yourself mobile home installations. Green Mountain Power is the enforcement entity on single family. They hold electricians to the letter of VT Service Standards, but low income homeowners live by utterly different rules. I get the "I don't understand why it failed!" calls, 90% in January. Most commonly after dark.

    Last December, I got one at 9:00 PM. It was a tenant calling about a rented trailer. I asked who I bill it to, he got agitated. I asked who his landlord is? "I don't know, some old guy!"
    "Then you will be paying?"
    "I don't give a fu(k if anybody pays!"
    "Well I do."
    He then engaged in a long tirade of what a pri(k I am.
    I pointed out he doesn't have to do business with me, plenty of electricians I'm sure dying for the chance to work free.
    He hung up.
    An optimist is usually wrong, and when the unexpected happens is unprepared. A pessimist is usually right, when wrong, is delighted, and well prepared.

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