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Thread: Lincoln vertical bullet welder

  1. #1
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    Lincoln vertical bullet welder

    Hello, I got an old vertical bullet lincoln 150 amp thing, question is what HP is the AC motor side? I am wondering can I run it on a 230v to 400v VFD?,

    I dont see why not as there is no connection to the DC welding side, I also have a 230v rotory phase converter but its only putting out 230v 3 phase.

  2. #2
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    Re: Lincoln vertical bullet welder

    What is HP?

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    Re: Lincoln vertical bullet welder

    Not much information has been provided. What is its input voltage design?
    An optimist is usually wrong, and when the unexpected happens is unprepared. A pessimist is usually right, when wrong, is delighted, and well prepared.

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    Re: Lincoln vertical bullet welder

    Normally can be wired 230.

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    Re: Lincoln vertical bullet welder

    They typically was dual voltage.
    It take off the wiring cover you see the motor wires.
    1) Take a photo of wires.
    2) Count the number of wires if get lucky it 9 wire which star wound and dual voltage. Easy to convert to single phase.

    Dave

    Quote Originally Posted by SOHC View Post
    Hello, I got an old vertical bullet lincoln 150 amp thing, question is what HP is the AC motor side? I am wondering can I run it on a 230v to 400v VFD?,

    I dont see why not as there is no connection to the DC welding side, I also have a 230v rotory phase converter but its only putting out 230v 3 phase.

  6. #6
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    Re: Lincoln vertical bullet welder

    I buy dual voltage, 230 or 460 but its not likely phase changeable.

  7. #7
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    Re: Lincoln vertical bullet welder

    A Lincoln bullet or torpedo is three phase most of them take a lot of amps they aren’t efficient ! And they are noisy . I don’t know what size rotary phase you have but it takes a lot to start those old girls been a while but I think it is 40 amps or more to start them

  8. #8
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    Re: Lincoln vertical bullet welder

    Seems they might have made a small one single phase?????

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    Re: Lincoln vertical bullet welder

    I know a guy bought about a dozen from a welding school auction at a comm college maybe but said 2 or 300 a piece and maybe less for some but fixed most of them upo a little and would blow the dust off if he needed to equip an ironworking job. They had wheels could crane them or put in freight elevators etc and work great in factory where they had real power. I was tempted to get a couple to move around plants at the time.

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    Re: Lincoln vertical bullet welder

    Quote Originally Posted by smithdoor View Post
    They typically was dual voltage.
    It take off the wiring cover you see the motor wires.
    1) Take a photo of wires.
    2) Count the number of wires if get lucky it 9 wire which star wound and dual voltage. Easy to convert to single phase.

    Dave
    Gee, I sure wish you'd enlighten me the "easy to convert to single phase". In my mind, nothing easy about it.
    An optimist is usually wrong, and when the unexpected happens is unprepared. A pessimist is usually right, when wrong, is delighted, and well prepared.

  11. #11
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    Re: Lincoln vertical bullet welder

    We have the technogy,,, at one time I might dun it or if they had then what we got now I might done some conversion. I prolly get it for free but after a while I didn't care and don't need another layer of stuff, one would lead to another and my big ole custom pit stop shop would be plugged.
    I don't own anything I really use would overheat a 10 wire.
    If I was gonna really weld or machine would have moved to town.

  12. #12
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    Re: Lincoln vertical bullet welder

    I am like willie and enlighten me on easy to convert I have used quite of few of these they are motor generators it is a a big electric motor running a DC Generator I have never seen a single phase one LOL or else I would have picked it up cause they weld great I have a 200 amp Airco setting in the shop but it is three phase . I worked in a shop we had a 600 and it was on 60 amp fuses I have never seen a single phase one

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    Re: Lincoln vertical bullet welder

    Quote Originally Posted by SOHC View Post
    Hello, I got an old vertical bullet lincoln 150 amp thing, question is what HP is the AC motor side? I am wondering can I run it on a 230v to 400v VFD?,

    I dont see why not as there is no connection to the DC welding side, I also have a 230v rotory phase converter but its only putting out 230v 3 phase.
    https://weldingweb.com/vbb/threads/7...elder-question

    IN THIS THREAD IT MENTIONS 7-1/2 HP
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    Re: Lincoln vertical bullet welder

    I've never personally touched one. More common are the gasoline engine powered version. Still, I've never been fortunate enough to use one. The DC engine welder I did use was Westinghouse & bigger. I'm older now, would love to try one again. If I understand, continuous DC, (somebody here described as flat line) could best (then) be produced from a generator. Therefore, a motor powered a generator.

    Three phase motors are simpler than some think. All have three magnetic coils. In some those three coils are split. Each coil will have two ends. Occasionally, in this country there will be 12 leads to connect, more commonly, there are 9. Single voltage motors rarely have 6, more commonly, 3 leads.

    The coils are connected WYE or DELTA.

    WYE will usually have one end of three coils connected internally. Those coils other end will be numbered 7,8,9. Other half of these coils will be 1-4, 2-5, 3-6. For higher voltage you connect the half coils in series. Lower voltage gets parallel.

    To my knowledge, phase converters make three phase from single phase by a few systems.

    One, a single phase motor drives a three phase alternator.
    Another, both motor & alternator are combined in the same frame.
    others use only capacitors to make a third "corner" by altering the timing.

    A recent comer in the world is the VFD(Variable Frequency Drive) or inverter drive. This makes single phase DC from whatever source it is designed to make it from. It then converts DC into AC 3 phase of whatever voltage & frequency it is programmed to make.

    I don't know if some brilliant motor mechanic could rewind a single phase motor for three phase, I'm pretty sure it isn't practical.
    Last edited by Willie B; 06-28-2022 at 08:36 PM.
    An optimist is usually wrong, and when the unexpected happens is unprepared. A pessimist is usually right, when wrong, is delighted, and well prepared.

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    Re: Lincoln vertical bullet welder

    Quote Originally Posted by Willie B View Post
    Gee, I sure wish you'd enlighten me the "easy to convert to single phase". In my mind, nothing easy about it.
    It's actually really easy. Just unhook one leg.

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  16. #16
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    Re: Lincoln vertical bullet welder

    Well I been doing this for a number of years and I have never seen one run on single phase if you unhook one leg the performance is going to go down if you haven’t run one or been around one it is hard to explain I am not a electrician but if it was that easy people would be using them at home there are a lot of these old motor generators around like I said earlier I have a 200 in the shop now got rid of a few of them because it wasn’t feasible to rewire them I know the phase inventors are rated by horsepower so getting one big enough to run one of the motor generators gets really exspensive but if it can be done I haven’t seen it . Figure out what kind of horsepower a sa200 has convert that to a electric motor and that is what your gonna need to run it

  17. #17
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    Re: Lincoln vertical bullet welder

    It is not hard to change to single phase if the motor is star wound.

    Dave

    Quote Originally Posted by Sberry View Post
    I buy dual voltage, 230 or 460 but its not likely phase changeable.

  18. #18
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    Re: Lincoln vertical bullet welder

    This link explains methods of running a 3ph motor on single phase.

    https://www.electricaltechnology.org...se-supply.html

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    Re: Lincoln vertical bullet welder

    It also says it is derated by 2/3 of its capacity so that kinda makes it tough to get very much voltage and or ocv to weld with a generator

  20. #20
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    Re: Lincoln vertical bullet welder

    It will have same ocv.
    You get the top amperage but need to add a lot of oil capacitors.

    They run big Air Conditioner that are three phase on single phase due to power companies.

    Dave

    Quote Originally Posted by Leogl View Post
    It also says it is derated by 2/3 of its capacity so that kinda makes it tough to get very much voltage and or ocv to weld with a generator

  21. #21
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    Re: Lincoln vertical bullet welder

    Well I am not an expert but I am guessing that you have done this and it works so good luck

  22. #22
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    Re: Lincoln vertical bullet welder

    Nice reading.
    But showed a Dela wound motor and for some reason they will not start on a capacitor.

    A rotor phase converter is a three phase motor with a capacitor start.

    Some small shops build a motor generator for the third leg not shown.

    The vdf is great but price is high.

    I do not know why the do manufacturer a electronic phase shift for the third leg.

    Dave

    Quote Originally Posted by 52 Ford View Post
    This link explains methods of running a 3ph motor on single phase.

    https://www.electricaltechnology.org...se-supply.html

    Sent from my Lincoln Buzzbox using Tapatalk

  23. #23
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    Re: Lincoln vertical bullet welder

    For the people who havent seen one the AC motor is on the same shaft as the DC generator and this can not be changed, The AC motor is permanently set in delta, I would not attempt to run it on single phase, I have done this in the past with 3 phase motors and its disappointing, I reckon it would run off a vfd but was worried it would damage the VFD, I would need to mod the relay to turn onn when the vfd is turned on.

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    Re: Lincoln vertical bullet welder

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    Re: Lincoln vertical bullet welder

    Quote Originally Posted by Willie B View Post
    Gee, I sure wish you'd enlighten me the "easy to convert to single phase". In my mind, nothing easy about it.
    I’ve seen motors that can be wired for 460/230 three phase
    or 230 single phase. Not sure if stator has anything unique
    about it allowing it to be used on single phase.
    When used on 230 single phase,start and run capacitors
    and voltage sensing relay are needed and HP of motor is derated.
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