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Thread: Evolution 14 Blade Mistake?

  1. #1
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    Evolution 14 Blade Mistake?

    Recently while at the local Hardware store/Tool Center, I saw a 14 Milwaukee chop saw for a good price, so my impulses kicked in, and I brought it home. I like it, except I wanted to put a steel cutting carbide blade on it. It came with a 14 abrasive cutting wheel. Without even looking at the details, I went to Amazon.Com and got a 14 Evolution blade for it. When delivered, I noticed the package said 1600 rpm maximum. I looked at the Milwaukee saw, and the pamplet that came with it said it runs at 3900 rpms!

    To be safe, Im thinking the 3900 rpm saw might be too much for that blade, so I put the abrasive blade back on it. Anyone had any experience with a carbide tipped blade on a saw with this many rpms? If its not safe, Im not gonna do it, so thus my question. I threw the packaging for the blade in the trash when I opened it, and the trash collectors took it away before I realized my mistake, so I cant return it for a refund.

    Any recommendations for a steel blade that would work for this saw?

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    Re: Evolution 14 Blade Mistake?

    Please post a video if you do it

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    Re: Evolution 14 Blade Mistake?

    The short answer is no but most importantly do NOT put the carbide tip blade on your abrasive chop saw.
    :

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    Re: Evolution 14 Blade Mistake?

    Do not go over on the label RPM.

    Dave

    Quote Originally Posted by metalmelter2021 View Post
    Recently while at the local Hardware store/Tool Center, I saw a 14 Milwaukee chop saw for a good price, so my impulses kicked in, and I brought it home. I like it, except I wanted to put a steel cutting carbide blade on it. It came with a 14 abrasive cutting wheel. Without even looking at the details, I went to Amazon.Com and got a 14 Evolution blade for it. When delivered, I noticed the package said 1600 rpm maximum. I looked at the Milwaukee saw, and the pamplet that came with it said it runs at 3900 rpms!

    To be safe, Im thinking the 3900 rpm saw might be too much for that blade, so I put the abrasive blade back on it. Anyone had any experience with a carbide tipped blade on a saw with this many rpms? If its not safe, Im not gonna do it, so thus my question. I threw the packaging for the blade in the trash when I opened it, and the trash collectors took it away before I realized my mistake, so I cant return it for a refund.

    Any recommendations for a steel blade that would work for this saw?

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    Re: Evolution 14 Blade Mistake?

    Well now you can go trade that carbide for a pile of abrasive disks OR you can sell your Milwaukee and buy the right saw for that blade.
    PS: there are way better saws (and blades) than the Evolution.
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    Evolution 14 Blade Mistake?

    Quote Originally Posted by Freebirdwelds View Post
    Well now you can go trade that carbide for a pile of abrasive disks OR you can sell your Milwaukee and buy the right saw for that blade.
    PS: there are way better saws (and blades) than the Evolution.
    And there ^^^you have your choices

    imo either option is fine. abrasive chopsaws unfairly get a bad rap. they work fine for what they cost.

    i own and use both. each have their place. i bought my Makita abrasive chop saw in the early 1980's and was the only thing i used until lately.






    Last edited by Lis2323; 07-02-2022 at 11:14 PM.
    :

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    Re: Evolution 14 Blade Mistake?

    Swapping in a carbide low-RPM blade in an abrasive saw is the #1 most common mistake as seen on Amazon reviews from people who do that very thing. They always state "cut great for 3 cuts, then went to hell". Yup, it's not meant for ~4,000 RPMs, so all the teeth are dulled. There are carbide blades that can survive abrasive-saw-RPMs. Unfortunately they cost 3x what the abrasive saw costs. Return both and get an Evolution metal chop saw. Done.
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    Re: Evolution 14 Blade Mistake?

    If you look at the speeds and feeds recommended for carbide milling and lathe tools, you'll see that even carbide dry cut saws exceed what's recommended for carbide. 1,400RPM is normal for a dry cut saw. Imagine turning a piece of 14" dia. steel in the lathe at 1,400RPM with a carbide tool. It's going to get hot and spark out. As far as I can tell, the only reason carbide blades work in those dry cut saws is that they only spend a small amount of time actually in the cut.

    \\

    For a few years now, I've thought about building a chop saw that runs at a few hundred RPM and uses a carbide blade and some sort of controlled feed system (controlled leak down on an air or hydraulic cylinder plus an adjustable weight system? Kinda like a horizontal bandsaw.). Just set the stock up, cut the saw on, and let it work. Probably wouldn't need a whole lot of HP if it's geared (belted) down to 300RPM.

    Cold cut saws run at under 100RPM, but they're running fine tooth HSS blades.

    I think I could build something to hold +/- 1/32" accuracy fairly easily with just regular pillow block bearings as spindle bearings. I have some 1" ID cast iron Timken pillow blocks that'd probably work well. Figured I'd have a 1" shaft that's stepped down to 7/8" or 5/8" whatever the blade hub requires, then a pulley on the other end. I have a 1 or 2 HP DC motor that'd work well for it. Just need to get a big DC power supply.

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  13. #9
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    Re: Evolution 14 Blade Mistake?

    Can anyone suggest what you consider the best abrasive chop saw blade/wheel? I felt the steel blade would be unsafe, so I reinstalled the original abrasive blade, but even though the Milwaukee saw is a good one, the abrasive blade is not the best for sure. Brands, vendors, for a 14 blade would be appreciated!

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    Re: Evolution 14 Blade Mistake?

    Quote Originally Posted by metalmelter2021 View Post
    Can anyone suggest what you consider the best abrasive chop saw blade/wheel? I felt the steel blade would be unsafe, so I reinstalled the original abrasive blade, but even though the Milwaukee saw is a good one, the abrasive blade is not the best for sure. Brands, vendors, for a 14 blade would be appreciated!
    What abrasive blade do you have for your Milwaukee currently and how do you know it is not the best?


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    Re: Evolution 14 Blade Mistake?

    Quote Originally Posted by metalmelter2021 View Post
    Can anyone suggest what you consider the best abrasive chop saw blade/wheel? I felt the steel blade would be unsafe, so I reinstalled the original abrasive blade, but even though the Milwaukee saw is a good one, the abrasive blade is not the best for sure. Brands, vendors, for a 14” blade would be appreciated!
    Dewalt's 14" abrasive wheels last long since they use a hard-bond for the abrasive, but then it cuts slower. Soft-bond wheels cut fast because new abrasives are being exposed at a faster rate, but since they break off easier, it doesn't last as long. So that's one thing to look at.

    For thickness, when I would use my abrasive saw, I would get 3/32" wheels for a slightly thinner kerf, but they are not as stable as 7/64" or 1/8" thick wheels; there can be some deflection if you are not careful.

    Then you also have single fiberglass layer reinforced vs double fiberglass layer reinforced. Single-reinforced cuts faster since the fiberglass layer is in the middle of the wheel and the grains are on the outside. Double-reinforced have fiberglass layers on both sides of the wheel so they are more stable, but cut slower since less of the abrasive grains are exposed to the steel being cut. So it's another one of those trade-off's. That being said, I prefer the thinner 3/32" wheels, but with double fiberglass reinforcement. That being said I now only use carbide cutting wheels on my low RPM metal chop saw.
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    Re: Evolution 14 Blade Mistake?

    Thanks Oscar! That is precisely the kind of info I was hoping to get…much appreciated!

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    Re: Evolution 14 Blade Mistake?

    Random bit of info: How fast or slow an abrasive wheel breaks down is referred to as it's friability. Very friable wheels (as Oscar has already stated) tend to cut more aggressively but wear out faster.

    Slightly off topic, but worth noting that just because you can get a 6 or 8 inch stone to fit on a bench grinder doesn't mean it's a bench grinder stone. I have a couple 8" X 1" aluminum oxide stones that are meant for machine grinding hard steel (probably sharpening planer blades, probably on a surface grinder). If I used it like a regular 36 grit bench grinding wheel, I'd wear it out in an hour.

    You can also buy diamond metal cutting blades for an abrasive chopsaw. These tend to last a LOT longer, BUT cut slower. This, I believe, is mainly due to the way the diamond is attached to the blade rim. It's captured in a metal coating - nickel, I believe. Nickel is quite heat and wear resistant. I like using a diamond cutting wheel when I'm cutting large diameter tubing and pipe because it maintains it's original diameter a LOT longer than conventional abrasive wheels. You can get them for an angle grinder for under $20.

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    Re: Evolution 14 Blade Mistake?

    I just placed an order for 10 abrasive 3/32” double reinforced wheels. I think I can live with those. I just did not care for the flimsy/wobbly wheel that came on the saw….I suppose that is where they cut corners to hit a good price point? I could be wrong on that last point

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    Re: Evolution 14 Blade Mistake?

    So what about the Metal cutting blade? I have a bunch of trade options depending where you live.
    Thermal Arc 320SP ( Lorch )
    Cobra Pythons
    Thermal Arc 300 AC/DC ( Sanrex )
    ESAB 301i AC/DC ( Lorch )
    Thermal Arc 161STL ( WTL )
    Thermal Arc 190S ( Sanrex )
    Cut Master 82, 42. Cut45 ( WTL )
    Victor Gas Apps.
    Boxes and boxes of welding crap.

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    Re: Evolution 14 Blade Mistake?

    It can make a big difference what chop saw blades you use too. Some will plug up bad and not want to cut. Makita blades are good as are Walter and some other brands. Post what blades you're buying or interested in and you should get some feedback from users.

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    Re: Evolution 14 Blade Mistake?

    The proper way to use an abrasive chop saw is with even "chopping " motions as opposed to a steady continuous cut.

    This procedure prevents the blade from deflecting and causing the most common complaint of unsquare cuts.

    Blade life will also be greatly increased as it will run cooler and not be prone to glazing.
    :

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    Re: Evolution 14 Blade Mistake?

    I like abrasive chop for repair. Production fab is another matter.
    Attached Images Attached Images  

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    Re: Evolution 14 Blade Mistake?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rondo View Post
    So what about the Metal cutting blade? I have a bunch of trade options depending where you live.
    Virginia. You could send me a private message with your ideas.

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    Re: Evolution 14 Blade Mistake?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sberry View Post
    I like abrasive chop for repair. Production fab is another matter.
    Same. I will NEVER part with mine. I use it regularly for metals of unknown hardness, odd shaped parts that wont fit in the vise securely, rebar and anything quick and dirty.

    Had it 37 plus years now and all Ive replaced is the 14 abrasive discs.


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    Re: Evolution 14 Blade Mistake?

    Quote Originally Posted by metalmelter2021 View Post
    Virginia. You could send me a private message with your ideas.
    No worries dealing with Rondo. I can vouch for him


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    Re: Evolution 14 Blade Mistake?

    Quote Originally Posted by Welder Dave View Post
    Post what blades you're buying or interested in and you should get some feedback from users.
    . Benchmark Abrasives high performance chop saw cut off wheels.

  30. #23
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    Re: Evolution 14 Blade Mistake?

    I also use a 14" abrasive and a 12" carbide, both Makita's. They both have a purpose.
    Lincoln 330MPX
    Lincoln Power Mig 256
    Lincoln LN-25X Wire Feeder
    Magnum PRO 250LX GT Spool Gun
    Lincoln AC/DC 225
    Ton of Torches OFC-A OFG-A
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    CAC-A
    Everlast 62i Plasma Cutter
    Ingersoll Rand T-30 14hp
    Instagram: #Freebird Welds

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  32. #24
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    Re: Evolution 14 Blade Mistake?

    I get good results using Makita wheels I get on Amazon.
    They last longer and seem to cut almost as fast as Dewalts.
    Never have done a scientific test on them though.

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    Re: Evolution 14 Blade Mistake?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lis2323 View Post
    The proper way to use an abrasive chop saw is with even "chopping " motions as opposed to a steady continuous cut.

    This procedure prevents the blade from deflecting and causing the most common complaint of unsquare cuts.

    Blade life will also be greatly increased as it will run cooler and not be prone to glazing.
    So the way you do it is by pecking at the steel instead of pressing down. Interesting way. How long in duration is each individual peck?
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