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  1. #1
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    Welding Rod For 14ga. Rectangle Tubing

    I'm working on building a mobile base for a SawStop table saw I recently bought!
    The material I'm using is 14ga. 1" X 3" rectangle tubing & some 1/8" 2" X 2" angle-iron.

    I've never really had any luck welding thin material, so I would like to know what's the best type & size of rod to use on this 14ga. tubing?
    Name:  IMG_8568.JPG
Views: 259
Size:  85.5 KBName:  IMG_8562.JPG
Views: 253
Size:  85.9 KB

    The welder I'm using is an old Marquette I got off of craigs list, I got it cheap since it wasn't working correctly!
    I replaced a couple of parts & cleaned it up & it been running great since.
    There are a few pictures of the welder in this post.
    https://weldingweb.com/vbb/threads/7...r-To-The-Forum

    Doug

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    Re: Welding Rod For 14ga. Rectangle Tubing

    6011 is low current, guys use smaller but I use 1/8. I know we will get 6013 pop up and we got lots of book readers but it takes a lot more current unless you use smaller electrodes.

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    Re: Welding Rod For 14ga. Rectangle Tubing

    It's less about the type of rod than the diameter of the rod. I have successfully welded 1/8 inch material with 1/8 inch rods but it is hard. I find you will have an easier time with thinner rods. For 14 gauge you will need a 1/16th rod if you are not decent at stick welding.

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    Re: Welding Rod For 14ga. Rectangle Tubing

    I am a career stick welder. I have never used a 1/16 rod and here is why. Imagine being off arc length in a 1/8 rod by 25%. Now how much is the error on a 1/16/ Second, the gaps are too wide to fill with small wire. I was on a job one time the men trying to tell some dum azz they put in charge that the 3/32 wasnt going to work for the roots, gap too wide and rod too small. They used to make 3/32 6011, had a bare spot in the middle and these were meant for sheet work. 6012 went the way of the dinosaur due to the mig. While 14 is mild pen its also hi current, the real old timers didnt use it so much for sheet but due to the fact it was AC,,, 7018 is also the same pen and the same current but not raved over for sheet but it works rather well, 14 about the same but the stud guys, real sheet welders use 11 as it freezes fast and can control the pen easily due to this and technique. Well maybe not easy but also used 10 on a lot of it.
    A guy can do limited 16 ga 1/8 if fit is good. 14 is substantially thicker, makes quite a difference.

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    Re: Welding Rod For 14ga. Rectangle Tubing

    But,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, since a mig is in the plans why wait till you are invested in a box of every type of rod they make which seems to happen when starting out. That machine is pretty,,, it will work and is better than no machine but is rather obsolete and the price of new and better has went down so much that its not a huge leap, common TV can cost more today than a new mig.

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    Re: Welding Rod For 14ga. Rectangle Tubing

    Quote Originally Posted by dwall174 View Post
    I'm working on building a mobile base for a SawStop table saw I recently bought!
    The material I'm using is 14ga. 1" X 3" rectangle tubing & some 1/8" 2" X 2" angle-iron.

    I've never really had any luck welding thin material, so I would like to know what's the best type & size of rod to use on this 14ga. tubing?
    Name:  IMG_8568.JPG
Views: 259
Size:  85.5 KBName:  IMG_8562.JPG
Views: 253
Size:  85.9 KB

    The welder I'm using is an old Marquette I got off of craigs list, I got it cheap since it wasn't working correctly!
    I replaced a couple of parts & cleaned it up & it been running great since.
    There are a few pictures of the welder in this post.
    https://weldingweb.com/vbb/threads/7...r-To-The-Forum

    Doug
    .
    plenty of Youtube videos showing welding 16ga tubing with 2.6mm 6013 at 75amps (3/32 or 2.4mm at 70 amps) using dab dab welding
    .
    basically hot welding 1/2 - 1 second stop arc wait second or 2, repeat, the series of pulse welds or dab dab welding allows control. seeing a 1/8" gap
    in 16ga tubing being welded too using dab dab, they usually putting a flux less rod in gap tacked welded in and then dab dab over it. if different
    thickness they start on thick side move to thin and stop to cool, repeating advancing
    .
    seeing .040 thick tubing welded is possible sometimes with 2.6mm or with 2.0mm rod (5/64" at 55 amps)
    .
    dab dab is hot intense short welds sometimes leaning rod heavy like 45 degree (or more) so arc force not trying to burn a hole through.
    sometime they weld thicker over 1/8" thick using dab dab but maybe easier to just weld continuously with some weave sometimes side to side
    other times inline or move forward then backup, forward more backup, etc. I tried myself on 16ga tubing i used 65 instead of 70 amps. my
    machine has some hot start or extra amps first 1/2 second of welding, so my machine 65 really 70 amps when dab dab welding
    Last edited by WNY_TomB; 07-03-2022 at 08:51 AM.

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    Re: Welding Rod For 14ga. Rectangle Tubing

    I used E6013 1/8" or 5/32" rod for welding 16 gauge, 14 gauge and 12 gauge steel.

    Works great
    In construction in California I would have to use E7018

    Dave

    Quote Originally Posted by dwall174 View Post
    I'm working on building a mobile base for a SawStop table saw I recently bought!
    The material I'm using is 14ga. 1" X 3" rectangle tubing & some 1/8" 2" X 2" angle-iron.

    I've never really had any luck welding thin material, so I would like to know what's the best type & size of rod to use on this 14ga. tubing?
    Name:  IMG_8568.JPG
Views: 259
Size:  85.5 KBName:  IMG_8562.JPG
Views: 253
Size:  85.9 KB

    The welder I'm using is an old Marquette I got off of craigs list, I got it cheap since it wasn't working correctly!
    I replaced a couple of parts & cleaned it up & it been running great since.
    There are a few pictures of the welder in this post.
    https://weldingweb.com/vbb/threads/7...r-To-The-Forum

    Doug
    Last edited by smithdoor; 07-03-2022 at 09:16 AM.

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    Re: Welding Rod For 14ga. Rectangle Tubing

    Quote Originally Posted by dwall174 View Post
    I've never really had any luck welding thin material, so I would like to know what's the best type & size of rod to use on this 14ga. tubing?


    Doug
    If you find it difficult to weld thin material, do not use 1/8" or larger; it's too tricky for 14ga. Having recently built a couple mobile bases/carts out of 14ga & 1/8", I would say you're best bet is either a 5/64" E6013/E7014 at its upper-range, or at most a 3/32" E6013/E7014/E7018 in it's lower range.

    Tips for higher chance of success on 14ga:
    • If you have gaps, tack-fill those first when the steel is ambient temp if at all possible. There's less of a chance of blowing up the gap into a mess of a large hole when the steel is not already warmed up from other welding done.
    • Always tack the corners so there is a bit more metal to run up against. Those outside corners take a little less amps than other joint configurations and the heat is going to get ahead of you no matter what, so putting a tack there gives you little bit of a buffer assuming you will start at a corner and end at a corner.
    • Tack EVERYTHING first before welding. It's easy to get carried away and just start welding, but the more you tack and get everything set-up, the less chance thin tubing will warp and distort on you and affect the design measurements/flatness.
    • I do not recommend using any cellulose rod like 3/32" 6010 or 6011 at first unless it's just for tacking, at least not until you yourself feel comfortable with it. Even though they can most definitely run at "low amps", the hydrogen produced in the decomposition of the flux increases the heat in the arc for any given amperage compared to non-cellulose rods. Therefore, they punch in a higher weight class for a given diameter and amperage due to that exothermic reaction of hydrogen-production in the electric arc. There are 1/16" E6011s, and I have some, but they don't run like cellulose rods; they run more like 6013s to be honest and are still too small of a diameter.
    Last edited by Oscar; 07-03-2022 at 11:27 AM.
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    Re: Welding Rod For 14ga. Rectangle Tubing

    Youtube got literally dozens (maybe closer to over 100) of 5-10 minute videos showing 16ga tubing welded with 2.6mm 6013 at 75amps.
    either under 16ga or thin metal welding or .060 or .040 tube or tubing welding. they show rod with size on it, show tubing on end can see it
    is thin and show welding machine amp and then show welding dimmed so can see puddle arc and rod movement. literally videos often show
    2 or 3 different ways to weld.
    .
    not sure why not 3/32 rod which is normally 2.4mm and you'd use 70 amp instead of 75 amps dab dab welding. maybe other countries
    2, 2.6, 3.2mm sizes more common
    .
    not sure where videos made middle east, India, Mexico, south america ? literally guys sometimes wearing sandals welding but I am
    impressed often
    .... sure some welds maybe they could lengthen the dabs like 2 to 4 seconds then stop to cool. literally wonder why not lower amps some
    and lengthen the weld pulse or dabs. literally amps high enough you burn a hole through normal welding more than 3 seconds at a time. videos
    often show not dab dab welding and burning through after a few seconds. then show advantages dab dab welding (maybe call it pulse welding)
    I found 16ga tubing almost go by sound stop arc when you start hear it burning through start dab dab welding.
    ..... Some videos literally in awe guy free hand grinding stainless tubing notch cuts and stick welding also 16ga stainless tubing with 308-16 or rutile
    stainless rod (rutile is same flux in 6013 rod), doing stainless handrail 16ga tubing going up stairs (angle cuts), literally some of the
    guys are good at what they do (cuts, fit up, welding etc). not sure if they make money doing the videos ? or why they make them
    .
    sure some videos welding 1/4" plate leaning rod 45 degree and dab dab welding 80-90 amps I am thinking why dab dab on thick stuff and why lean rod so much.
    some welds look rough and others welds like the stack of dimes effect. some videos show welding 16ga tubing to heavy 6mm plate and why lean towards and favor
    heavier side weaving to thin.. hard to describe many Youtube videos on it, showing what many call impossible welding is easily possible. also show vertical up and down
    welding as well as horizontal and overhead welding by dab dab 16 ga sometimes .040 thick metal studs builders use. its rare but sometimes they actually use
    2mm rod or 5/64 rod at 55 amps on the .040 thick stuff. many many Youtube videos. I tried on 16ga 2x2 and 1.5x1.5 steel tubing i had no problem doing dab dab
    I used 3/32 or 2.4mm 6013 at 65 amps my machine runs hot so guessing actually at 70 amps dab dab welding
    Last edited by WNY_TomB; 07-03-2022 at 03:23 PM.

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    Re: Welding Rod For 14ga. Rectangle Tubing

    Why not? I never said he shouldn't; I mentioned that it should likely be the upper limit of rod diameter (except for 6010/6011 due to the high arc-force/punch) if he is still learning the in's-n-out's of stick welding thin steel (1st paragraph, 2nd sentence). He already said he hasn't had much success with welding thin gauge steel. So he's at a disadvantage there. There is no doubt a good welder can manage what you're saying, but that comes from years of experience usually.


    Quote Originally Posted by WNY_TomB View Post
    dab dab welding (maybe call it pulse welding)
    Oh geez. Dab Dab? What is this, Scooby Doo? Dab-Dab "welders", as you call them, I do not consider welders. Nor is it anything like pulse welding. What you're talking about is more like stitch-welding, and sure it has it's place, but for the most part it is pretty obvious dab-dab welders are just taking a short-cut.

    Dwall174, please do not start the bad scooby-doo habit of dab-dab welding. It just makes laughable content for the rest of us.
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    Re: Welding Rod For 14ga. Rectangle Tubing

    14 gauge is easier than 16 gauge. 6010/6011 are good for thin material because the slag isn't a big deal like with any other rods. You can put multiple tacks at low amps if need be without having to clean the slag off. They burn through the slag. They're also easier to strike an arc with. If it looks rough, you can wire brush or grind it and put a better pass over top. If it's a lap weld a 3/32" 7014 would work as you can go pretty fast. Forget about trying to figure out or understand the scientific aspects of welding rods. Many experienced weldors use 6010/6011 for filling gaps and welding thin material. Some of it is due to those are the rods that were available in the shop. No shop is going to order a special box of rods because Johnny can't weld thin material or gaps. 6010 are used for root passes after all where the edges are thin and there's a gap to fill. If there's a lot of thin material to weld, there would be a Mig welder in the shop.
    Last edited by Welder Dave; 07-03-2022 at 06:46 PM.

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    Re: Welding Rod For 14ga. Rectangle Tubing

    I've never really had any luck welding thin material, so I would like to know what's the best type & size of rod to use on this 14ga. tubing?
    Fin d yourself a source of scrap metal of the thickness you have trouble with, cut it into smaller pieces and using a rod size/type of your choosing based on your preferred suggestions here, do lots of practice until you develop the skill to do consistent, good welds.

    I have had good success using 3/32" 6013, Straight polarity, on thin material, but won't argue about other suggestions here.

    BTW, not all brands of the same number behave the same.

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    Re: Welding Rod For 14ga. Rectangle Tubing

    Will see if Richard kept some pictures, we put a new floor pan in his truck. Used a 3/32 6011 rod DC/45 amp about an inch at a time. His truck was in my shop and my son was using my Hobart. I’m thinking the floor pan is thicker than 14 gauge. But this worked well
    Retired Old Guy

    Hobart 210
    Lincoln AC/DC 225/125
    Evolution 14 Saw

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    Re: Welding Rod For 14ga. Rectangle Tubing

    Quote Originally Posted by Welder Dave View Post
    14 gauge is easier than 16 gauge. 6010/6011 are good for thin material because the slag isn't a big deal like with any other rods. You can put multiple tacks at low amps if need be without having to clean the slag off. They burn through the slag. They're also easier to strike an arc with. If it looks rough, you can wire brush or grind it and put a better pass over top. If it's a lap weld a 3/32" 7014 would work as you can go pretty fast. Forget about trying to figure out or understand the scientific aspects of welding rods. Many experienced weldors use 6010/6011 for filling gaps and welding thin material. Some of it is due to those are the rods that were available in the shop. No shop is going to order a special box of rods because Johnny can't weld thin material or gaps. 6010 are used for root passes after all where the edges are thin and there's a gap to fill. If there's a lot of thin material to weld, there would be a Mig welder in the shop.
    Yes I agree, for tacks they are great. For welding thin steel, when someone already has the experience. Also he is not in a shop. If you read between the lines, you'll quickly see that your argument, while true, just isn't applicable here.
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    Re: Welding Rod For 14ga. Rectangle Tubing

    I have welded tons of 16 to 12 gauge steel used E6013 1/8 or 5/32" for metal buildings

    This was before mig/Fluxcore was in big time use.

    Today I would use E71T-1 w/CO2 or E71T-11

    Dave

    Quote Originally Posted by dwall174 View Post
    I guess I should have been a little clearer!
    There will be various type of joints used, however the main one I'm concerned with is the butt-joints where I mitered the corners of the base.

    Thanks for everyone's recommendations!
    I picked up some 1/16" & 5/64" 6013 rods & I already have some 3/32" 6011 & 3/32" E7018.
    I'll have several scrap pieces leftover from the miter cuts, so I'll practice on that first.

    Doug

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    Re: Welding Rod For 14ga. Rectangle Tubing

    I did notice the corner in the photo. I tend to avoid miters if possible. A butt meeting the side of another piece of metal would be easier to weld. Even capping open ends is easier.

    However, I use some version of Dave’s technique often on straight butts. I will space tacks then connect the spaces. Watch the color chance before proceeding or anticipating burn through.

    Also, weld from inside corner to outside, so heat has place to run.

    The outside edge is just going to be challenging. I grind the razor edge away before welding.

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    Re: Welding Rod For 14ga. Rectangle Tubing

    Quote Originally Posted by tapwelder View Post
    Also, weld from inside corner to outside, so heat has place to run.
    I prefer to run it the other way. I feel that the outside corner melts a whole lot faster, so after I weld up the outside corner vertically, then I do outside corner to inside corner.
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    Re: Welding Rod For 14ga. Rectangle Tubing

    Quote Originally Posted by tapwelder View Post
    The outside edge is just going to be challenging.
    That's kind of what I was thinking also!
    To minimize the possibility of burn through I'm thinking of trying to make backing plates out of some scrap metal.
    I've seen a version of this backing plate method used in autobody repair to strengthen & repair a damaged panel.

    Here's a couple drawings of the basic idea I'm thinking about.
    Name:  But Joint Backing Plate .jpg
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    Doug

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    Re: Welding Rod For 14ga. Rectangle Tubing

    dab dab welding as seen on Youtube has its place many times. the welding seen sure some is rough looking and others looks very good. and
    many times they show by not dab dab welding burning through in a few seconds. they only showing different methods and what works better
    .
    many countries its common to have steel tubing "bars" (galvanized or stainless) and roofs covering windows balconies for drying clothes protected
    from rain and bars of tubing protection from theft. literally many many countries welding 16ga and 18ga tubing cause its cheaper.
    .
    many welders doing nice work some amazing work stick welding tubing at literally 10 - 100x the rate a American welder might do. Seeing how
    in a few years they can weld easily over 100 years worth of tubing a American welder might do they do get good at it. not saying all the Youtube
    videos are good but some are awe inspiring. Some videos from India are everyday showing what Americans consider impossible is possible
    .
    ..... just saying might want to check out Youtube on welding. and 6013 is common, more common usually in other countries. and there is a learning
    or training to use it good. 99% of those who dont like 6013 dont know best how to weld with it. might want to see how experts use 6013 before
    saying its no good. and 308-16 or rutile flux stainless rod acts similar to rutile flux 6013 rod. they can do steel and stainless tubing welding depending
    on what customer wants

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    Re: Welding Rod For 14ga. Rectangle Tubing

    Quote Originally Posted by WNY_TomB View Post
    literally 10 - 100x the rate a American welder might do. Seeing how
    in a few years they can weld easily over 100 years worth of tubing a American welder might do they do get good at it. not saying all the Youtube
    videos are good but some are awe inspiring. Some videos from India are everyday showing what Americans consider impossible is possible
    .
    You might want to tread lightly, you're highly outnumbered here, especially on today's celebration.
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    Re: Welding Rod For 14ga. Rectangle Tubing

    Welding from inside to outside minimizes distortion, less heat input in the tight corner. So, to weld inward is easier because you are approaching more concentrated mass. However, more heat in that mass can lead to big distortion.

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    Re: Welding Rod For 14ga. Rectangle Tubing

    Quote Originally Posted by tapwelder View Post
    Welding from inside to outside minimizes distortion, less heat input in the tight corner. So, to weld inward is easier because you are approaching more concentrated mass. However, more heat in that mass can lead to big distortion.
    True, but I've destroyed a lot of outside corners going outward, so I tend to go the other way
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    Re: Welding Rod For 14ga. Rectangle Tubing

    Nothing wrong with solid wire.
    I have found E70S-6 works best when I work in machine shops for farm equipment.
    But my line of work and shop I had to use fluxcore or stick.

    Dave

    Quote Originally Posted by Sberry View Post
    If I had a choice I would use solid wire.

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    Re: Welding Rod For 14ga. Rectangle Tubing

    Depending what was available, I would use either solid-wire MIG (say .030, but it really wouldn't matter much) or 3/32 6010. Actually I could do the job with oxy-acetylene and some 3/32 RG45 too, but it wouldn't look as nice, guess I need to practice my gas welding. It's handy to have around for stuff like 16-ga exhaust pipe.
    Use a bigger hammer.

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    Re: Welding Rod For 14ga. Rectangle Tubing

    I had book 📖 that my purchase that had very good chart uses of welding rod.
    E6010 and E6011 was used for rusty steel and first pass on plate.

    I loss book over time and had day just use of rods I post here.

    Dave

    Quote Originally Posted by nickel_city_fab View Post
    Depending what was available, I would use either solid-wire MIG (say .030, but it really wouldn't matter much) or 3/32 6010. Actually I could do the job with oxy-acetylene and some 3/32 RG45 too, but it wouldn't look as nice, guess I need to practice my gas welding. It's handy to have around for stuff like 16-ga exhaust pipe.

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