End of the Season

[farmersammm]

Checked with two suppliers, and the floor chains are on backorder................oh, why not?

K'kins is gonna check with her Danny(Breaking Bad "you need a Danny") to see if we can get a good price for rolling the hay. I'd like to pay between 10-12 bucks a bale, for baling only. If it runs higher,, it pays to fix the belt baler, and cut later in the season.

[farmersammm]

Checked back with the fab shop. I was concerned that they couldn't roll diamondplate, but they can in the 11ga range............which is ideal.

It occurred to me that an expanded metal overlay on the roller might be too aggressive, and try to suck hay between opposing rollers(clogging up the works, or placing stress on the rollers). Diamondplate is closer to the original surface texture, although I would like to find dimpled sheet metal. The dimpled stuff doesn't seem to exist in ready form, but I do see die sets to make a dimpled plate. I guess it's only made on an as needed basis.

A look at new balers made by New Holland shows a mix of smooth rollers with welded bars for traction, and one dimpled roller at the top of the sledge assembly.

The number of rollers seems to be the same on the 650 as the new ones. Lotttttttttsa rollers



Every roller is a fire waiting to happen, if a bearing gets hot. I can't count the number of these things I see at Enlow's Auction in Tulsa. The insurance company sells them to help recover payout costs.

[SweetMK]

Three "guys" that live near me,, totally gave up baling hay.
Two of the guys are welders that used to make hay,, and raise cattle,,
the third guy owns some sort of insurance business.

The first two guys sold ALL hay specific equipment, (kept the tractors) and they sold their cattle.

The third guy pays to have his hay custom cut and rolled,, he kept the employee that used to make all the hay.
That employee now mostly mows grass, and paints fences,,

They ALL have said the price of fuel eliminated any way to make $$$$$,,

Be careful, don't buy a machine that only puts you further in the hole,, moneywise,,

This is not a fun time to be buying diesel,, just to try to convert it into cow food,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

[SweetMK]

The reason I know about this is that usually one of those guys would cut a 10 acre field of hay that I own.
I never charged them anything for the hay,, and I even helped them to fix a machine if they had a problem.

I was surprised that no one wants free hay,, especially nice fescue with almost no weeds.
I guess I will be hooking up the JD 390 flail soon,, my wife likes the fields to be nice,,

[farmersammm]

I dumped the bale out for cows, and got a closer look at the damage.



On closer examination, the roller does have some reinforcement in the form of a bulkhead. I'm even wondering if this thing might have been underwater at some time. Or maybe it's just years of accumulated leakage. Although the other rollers, higher up on the pivot, have absolutely no signs of rust damage.

The geartrain is badly worn. These are still available on a lucky hit on Fleabay. Again...........I've never seen that kind of rust damage. A lot of this is on me for not knowing what to look for, and not insisting on hearing the thing run, or having it opened for inspection. It was not hooked to a tractor when I bought it.

Apparently, according to the gear arrangement, the broken roller is the drive roller for the entire assembly. The bottom sprocket takes power from the floor roller, and transfers it to the pivot roller in the pivot assembly.

This is looking fairly major. Not something I can get done in a few days.

[52 Ford]

I dumped the bale out for cows, and got a closer look at the damage.



On closer examination, the roller does have some reinforcement in the form of a bulkhead. I'm even wondering if this thing might have been underwater at some time. Or maybe it's just years of accumulated leakage. Although the other rollers, higher up on the pivot, have absolutely no signs of rust damage.

The geartrain is badly worn. These are still available on a lucky hit on Fleabay. Again...........I've never seen that kind of rust damage. A lot of this is on me for not knowing what to look for, and not insisting on hearing the thing run, or having it opened for inspection. It was not hooked to a tractor when I bought it.

Apparently, according to the gear arrangement, the broken roller is the drive roller for the entire assembly. The bottom sprocket takes power from the floor roller, and transfers it to the pivot roller in the pivot assembly.

This is looking fairly major. Not something I can get done in a few days.

I've seen some old equipment with treadplate that looked similar to to the material they used for those rollers. It has raised squares instead of the diamond shape they use on tread plate now. I'm not away of anyone that makes it now, which is a damned shame, cause I like it! Next time I head down to the saw mill, I'll see if I can wade through the tall grass and take a picture of some of it. I believe I also saw the same texture used on rubber liners in the cab of an LMTV.

Looks a bit like this: https://external-content.duckduckgo....g!d&f=1&nofb=1

I reckon the squares are 3/8" or 7/16". I wish I knew where I could buy some. Not talking old stuff - if I need a small piece, I'll just grab a generator, plasma cutter, and the Rolair and go get some from the sawmill.

[whtbaron]

Tis but a flesh wound...

[Munkul]

That roller doesn't do very much for bale forming, as evidenced by the paint still being on it. Look at its position. By the time the start of the bale gets to it, it's barely helping to roll it at all. Maybe directing some of the loose strands. Then once it's formed properly, it's doing absolutely nothing.

Ergo, it isn't all that important to be replaced exactly life-for-like.

water has got into that roller somehow. Maybe through a pinhole, or something. But it happened because someone left it outside all its life uncovered, most likely.

"Oh but machine sheds are for rich folks"
Mhhm but everyone can afford tarpaulins...!

If it were me, I'd have that thing out of there asap, get some pipe close to that diameter, and make a new roller. Wouldn't cost a crazy amount. It doesn't have to be amazingly accurate - just has to have the ends machined true to one another.
You could locate some pipe, make the end spigots yourself (oversize on the shafts), weld up the spigots best you can, and send to a machine shop for finishing.

I wouldn't even bother with texture. Not this year anyway. I honestly can't see it making much difference.

EDIT:
in fact, you could do it another way. Make a solid shaft for power transfer, and attach the roller ends and pipe to it afterwards. It's not actually doing much "rolling" so you could make it a loose fit with grub screws, removing the welding distortion from the equation. That way, if you have any problems with bale forming, you can remove it and texture it later, or re-make it. Either way, you get out of the hole you're in.

I mean, you could even just make a plain shaft and cover up the hole with some sheet metal. Get away with it, and sell the thing before it breaks something else.

There's loads of ways to do it. Don't be boxed in by yourself Sam, that's what you usually do...

How did that disc mower work out by the way? Did you try it, or did you just sell it again?

[Woznme]

You've got a mig. Blat some tacks on some pipe for texture.

[cwby]

On a cotton stripper, the saw drums in the cleaner run on a full length hex shaft thru the drum. In the early days of John Deere cleaners the drums would flex under a load & tear up saws. We did mods on the drums by disassembling them & adding a plate inside to take the flex out of the shaft. The drum had an end plate, a plate in the center & a plate on the other end. We found a source for the hex bushing, cut (4) 1" tacks off the end plates, slide the new plate/bushing on the shaft 1/2 way, tighten the crap out of the set screws w/ lock tite), then tack the end plates back on the ends. Balanced the drum on jack stands with end bearings. Let it fall to low spot, tack a weight on the high side, rinse & repeat. Did about 8 of them before JD started selling a revised version of the saw drum.

Same thing kind of applies here. Start with a full length shaft, buy or build bushings, cut out circular plates to fit the inside of the drum, use pipe or have new drum rolled, assemble, tack them in ( doesn't take much (4) 1" tacks will hold them - bushing supports most of the load.), re-install & go back to work.

[farmersammm]

That roller doesn't do very much for bale forming, as evidenced by the paint still being on it. Look at its position. By the time the start of the bale gets to it, it's barely helping to roll it at all. Maybe directing some of the loose strands. Then once it's formed properly, it's doing absolutely nothing.

Ergo, it isn't all that important to be replaced exactly life-for-like.

water has got into that roller somehow. Maybe through a pinhole, or something. But it happened because someone left it outside all its life uncovered, most likely.

"Oh but machine sheds are for rich folks"
Mhhm but everyone can afford tarpaulins...!

If it were me, I'd have that thing out of there asap, get some pipe close to that diameter, and make a new roller. Wouldn't cost a crazy amount. It doesn't have to be amazingly accurate - just has to have the ends machined true to one another.
You could locate some pipe, make the end spigots yourself (oversize on the shafts), weld up the spigots best you can, and send to a machine shop for finishing.

I wouldn't even bother with texture. Not this year anyway. I honestly can't see it making much difference.

EDIT:
in fact, you could do it another way. Make a solid shaft for power transfer, and attach the roller ends and pipe to it afterwards. It's not actually doing much "rolling" so you could make it a loose fit with grub screws, removing the welding distortion from the equation. That way, if you have any problems with bale forming, you can remove it and texture it later, or re-make it. Either way, you get out of the hole you're in.

I mean, you could even just make a plain shaft and cover up the hole with some sheet metal. Get away with it, and sell the thing before it breaks something else.

There's loads of ways to do it. Don't be boxed in by yourself Sam, that's what you usually do...

How did that disc mower work out by the way? Did you try it, or did you just sell it again?

I have a line on a part as of an hour ago. Have to see if it will interchange.

I'm even wondering if the existing broken roller wasn't a replacement roller, given the shape it's in, compared to the others in the sledge assembly. It's not out of the question...........I've found extensive cobbled together crap work on the pickup(which might be having some effect on the way this thing doesn't like to start a bale).

PITA to be without a loader. The extended boom attachment was made just for this work. I anticipated removing the entire belt frame sometime soon to rebuild the arms. They've worn paper thin in some areas. All of it has to come out of the top of the baler by my reckoning. The boom was to build a crane, remove cabs, and generally do all the high lifting we need to do.

By the looks of the used roller I'm thinking about.............the roller is carried by stub shafts attached to the sledge frame. It has an end gear, and the other side has a bearing assembly. No shaft running through the roller, which makes sense. It has to be installed in the frame somehow, and couldn't be done any other way than using stub shafts that can be removed/installed separately from the roller.

I had just over 110 acres of hay on the ground, or waiting to be cut, when I had to buy this damn thing. A rush buy, and apparently not a good buy.

I can put an extension on the little 3pt crane to get some more clearance, and reach. Total PITA

K'kins is still putting out feelers for someone to do the rolling. I know very few people around here. I'm not a real friendly guy, and tend to stick to myself. She grew up here,, and knows folks.........although she's found, like me, that most folks aren't worth knowing. Life is a learning affair.

[farmersammm]

Not saying that all folks are mopes..............it just takes a lot of effort to weed your way thru the azzholes to get to decent people.

[Meltedmetal]

I think I'd roll a piece of 1/8" cut it into 1/2 pipes clamp it over the broken roller, weld it on and back together and see if it will bale and think about a better solution after the hay season. But it is hard to tell if that could work from the pics. Good luck with the hay.

[Munkul]

I think I'd roll a piece of 1/8" cut it into 1/2 pipes clamp it over the broken roller, weld it on and back together and see if it will bale and think about a better solution after the hay season. But it is hard to tell if that could work from the pics. Good luck with the hay.

I like this solution best of all. As long as it has clearance to turn, and isn't too far out of alignment, who cares what else happens. That roller does nothing anyway, and it's only half a day's work to try. Get going with the hay while you can

[whtbaron]

I was thinking along those lines as well, but from what I see, 1/8 might be pretty heavy compared to what is there and could create clearance issues. Maybe something closer to 12 gauge?

[Munkul]

TBH looking at what was there before, you'd probably get away with 16ga or less

[farmersammm]

Well

No way to weld this up for a temp fix. The roller is out of round where it got shoved against the other rollers when it broke. Sorta looks like an egg.

No way this is gonna be a fast fix either

I did, however, come up with the right part if I choose to fix the damn thing. The guy had the other rollers for sale at about 4 bills apiece, and when I inquired about this one.............magically he had one of those too..............for 6 bills. Funny how that turned out eh?

So..........gonna find someone to roll the hay I guess(shrug). This will have to be done in the off season. No way we can do it in time to cut the remaining acres.

I'll take one more look at how it's put together this evening, and determine if it's doable now, or gets parked till sometime in December.

K'kins is talking retirement in a very serious tone of voice. Long as I get a hobby, and don't just sit in front of the puter monitoring the market until I die of a heart attack She also has a very serious voice on that matter too. Hobby?????? WTF am I gonna do for a hobby??

[farmersammm]

Well...........Lookee Here

I knew, in the back of my noodle, that I had a set of manuals for this thing. I never buy a piece of equipment without getting a full set of manuals. I just couldn't quite remember where they were Looking at them, and trying to remember what I paid for them................I'm thinking about a coupla hundred dollars?? I don't think my Fleabay account lets you pull up something that many years ago.

Anyways It looks as if you can remove the pivot roll without taking the entire damn sledge frame out. But, I need a way to support it while the roller is being removed, and installed. Might be able to suspend it from the top of the baler, and on one of the belt rollers.

Ton of sprockets, belts(maybe), and various guards,, have to be removed to get it out............but Hell, it's not as bad as I thought (until you actually get into it)

[farmersammm]

So..................we're lookin' at a $4900 baler that now is gonna be a ton more money

Rebuilt left wheel
New tires (forget what I paid....maybe 3-600)
New roller about 600
New roller drive gears for all sledge rollers maybe 500ish..........if you can find them.
New belts, if the roller works, about 13-1500
And God only knows what all the bearings are gonna cost for a full set for the entire damn baler if it gets through the season without catching fire.

I still think you could dump 10K on a newer one, and still be facing the same problems.

[Oxford1]

So..................we're lookin' at a $4900 baler that now is gonna be a ton more money

Rebuilt left wheel
New tires (forget what I paid....maybe 3-600)
New roller about 600
New roller drive gears for all sledge rollers maybe 500ish..........if you can find them.
New belts, if the roller works, about 13-1500
And God only knows what all the bearings are gonna cost for a full set for the entire damn baler if it gets through the season without catching fire.

I still think you could dump 10K on a newer one, and still be facing the same problems.

If somebody charged you $20 a bale to,roll it up, that would be 500 bales.... and they would be done, without worry about tractor or equipment failure.

[12V71]

If somebody charged you $20 a bale to,roll it up, that would be 500 bales.... and they would be done, without worry about tractor or equipment failure.

$20 bucks a round bale is stupid. In this area 3'x4'x8' square bales are $15 per bale coming out of a quarter million dollar baler.

[farmersammm]

If you don't bale your own hay, you can't feed cattle.

https://tulsa.craigslist.org/grd/d/c...502754348.html

https://tulsa.craigslist.org/grd/d/o...499702635.html

https://tulsa.craigslist.org/grd/d/p...499413253.html

https://tulsa.craigslist.org/grd/d/p...502118395.html

https://tulsa.craigslist.org/grd/d/d...504414469.html

Custom rates are either by the bale, or 2/3 of the hay produced on your field. The days of a 50/50 split are long gone.

https://tulsa.craigslist.org/grd/d/b...503282943.html And........I'd just about guarantee that the bales won't be exceptionally tight or heavy. So, you can see that I will not pay 20 bucks a bale for someone to follow my mower, and rake, with his baler.

The hay prices are first cutting prices. Second cutting, if there is one,, will likely be more expensive. By that time of year, hay supplies start to get tight. The price increases throughout the Winter.

We're breaking 100* days now, and the pastures are drying up........which means folks are putting out hay right now. We have hay out right now too. They're not eating a lot of it, but they do when they start to starve. Damn cows will walk a lot of weight off trying to nibble at eaten down pasture.

[Oxford1]

$20 bucks a round bale is stupid. In this area 3'x4'x8' square bales are $15 per bale coming out of a quarter million dollar baler.

Agreed, here too. I was making the point that even at 20:dollars a bale (50% more than he’d like to pay) he’s still money way ahead to hire it out.

[farmersammm]

Go on down to Texas, and see what you'll pay................ https://dallas.craigslist.org/ftw/gr...498816506.html And "cow hay/cow quality" is hayspeak for generally lousy hay.

[Oxford1]

If you don't bale your own hay, you can't feed cattle.

https://tulsa.craigslist.org/grd/d/c...502754348.html

https://tulsa.craigslist.org/grd/d/o...499702635.html

https://tulsa.craigslist.org/grd/d/p...499413253.html

https://tulsa.craigslist.org/grd/d/p...502118395.html

https://tulsa.craigslist.org/grd/d/d...504414469.html

Custom rates are either by the bale, or 2/3 of the hay produced on your field. The days of a 50/50 split are long gone.

https://tulsa.craigslist.org/grd/d/b...503282943.html And........I'd just about guarantee that the bales won't be exceptionally tight or heavy. So, you can see that I will not pay 20 bucks a bale for someone to follow my mower, and rake, with his baler.

The hay prices are first cutting prices. Second cutting, if there is one,, will likely be more expensive. By that time of year, hay supplies start to get tight. The price increases throughout the Winter.

We're breaking 100* days now, and the pastures are drying up........which means folks are putting out hay right now. We have hay out right now too. They're not eating a lot of it, but they do when they start to starve. Damn cows will walk a lot of weight off trying to nibble at eaten down pasture.

So, $28 a bale, where they provide the machine, fuel, and operator to make your hay where you don’t have to haul it, is less appealing to you than buying it for $50 and up.