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Thread: Help please with boring head on a drill press

  1. #51
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    Re: Help please with boring head on a drill press

    Dave, you have real troubles.

    Getting back to what I suggested at the beginning........................... For this kind of situation, you're best using DOM for the bushing, and just welding it in. I've fixed stuff this way for over 2 decades. Granted.....nothing as large as a backhoe mast, but given the situation you're in, without adequate tooling, I think it's a viable alternative at this point.

    Speaking of DOM....... I have what might be a have-to-do emergency repair on the Oliver. The front axle pivot has worn to the point that the movement is taking out the support struts and bushings...........and taking out the strut mount that fits on the bottom of the frame. It's gotten critical. It's been loose since I bought the tractor, but has gotten out of hand in the last few weeks. I believe it got hammered hard when flipping windrows, and that was the last straw. It seems that all the older 2wd tractors have this problem. Both of the Allis's are in similar shape.

    This will be a quick cut, and plug job. Build out the ruined hole in the axle, then weld in some 3/16-1/4 wall DOM......then turning a pin to fit. The strut mount can be shimmed to get through hay season, then that entire assembly, including the strut, will have to be rebuilt.

    But anyways........this is a pretty common method of repairing these kind of problems.

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  3. #52
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    Re: Help please with boring head on a drill press

    I'll see what a better boring bar and/or drill bit turned into a boring bar does. The other thought I had, although not ideal, would be to have 2 rings machined with a hole slightly smaller than the size I need with a 4" dia. OD to match the existing welded in bushing. I could tack them top and bottom to use as a guide for grinding the bore with a plug wheel. It would be a slow process but might be a viable option. I could finish the sizing with a flap wheel.

  4. #53
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    Re: Help please with boring head on a drill press

    Quote Originally Posted by Welder Dave View Post
    I can slow it back down and after reading of similar results with cheap Chinese boring bars, it's worth trying a better US made boring bar. I was trying to take a very light cut and it made a rough surface I think was because there is no relief and/or the cutting tip is past half the diameter of the boring bar. I can also try making an HSS bar out of a drill bit. I was feeding really slow but I think I can feed the slowest by using the depth stop and slowly loosening it while applying a little down pressure on it.
    That sounds correct.

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  5. #54
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    Re: Help please with boring head on a drill press

    I have an old d6 9u cat. The blade corners would move up and down 1 1/2 ft. I welded up the pin pockets for the sidearm and ground them down with a die grinder and cobalt bur . It has around 2-3" of slop now. The pockets are far from perfect and will not last as long as new pins and bushing but it's good enough for now
    It to me 2 days to do the 6 pockets and the pins on the blade. Not the couple of hours that I thought it would take.
    I don't think a regular drill bit is tough enough to use as a milling cutter bit. Perhaps a cobalt bit.
    If think of it I will try out on my lathe when I get a chance.
    One other thing surface between swingarm should be parallel to each other

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  7. #55
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    Re: Help please with boring head on a drill press

    I'll have to see what a better boring bar does. I can't really use DOM because the size of the hole has to be about 3 thou. under 3" for a shrink fit bushing. Getting a nice tight fit for DOM would also be difficult. I couldn't really have gaps. There are a few video's online of successfully using a boring head in a drill press so I think it's just a matter of getting everything as close as possible and having a good boring bar. Will I need an indexable one, maybe. I might call a couple other places to see if they can get HSS boring bars or drill blanks. I could always buy a really good drill bit to make a boring bar out of.

  8. #56
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    Re: Help please with boring head on a drill press

    You buy the DOM Tubing oversized and machine to fit.
    The ID also is underside and machine to fit.
    If you are press fitting the ID need to bore over size by the press fit size.

    Sometimes I had to use bar stock

    Dave

    Quote Originally Posted by Welder Dave View Post
    I'll have to see what a better boring bar does. I can't really use DOM because the size of the hole has to be about 3 thou. under 3" for a shrink fit bushing. Getting a nice tight fit for DOM would also be difficult. I couldn't really have gaps. There are a few video's online of successfully using a boring head in a drill press so I think it's just a matter of getting everything as close as possible and having a good boring bar. Will I need an indexable one, maybe. I might call a couple other places to see if they can get HSS boring bars or drill blanks. I could always buy a really good drill bit to make a boring bar out of.

  9. #57
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    Re: Help please with boring head on a drill press

    Here's a video of someone boring with a drill. It works because he had an bushing supporting the bar.
    Where are you at? You can buy bits at KMS tools or any local machine shop.
    I would do that before trying to use a drill bit.
    Once you have bored it you can measure the bore and move the bit out as needed. Us a dial indicator on the cutting tool adjust the cut.
    For the tolerance you are looking for I'd plan on honing it to size.

  10. #58
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    Re: Help please with boring head on a drill press

    If you make a bar I would not bother with tool steel mass is more important.

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    Re: Help please with boring head on a drill press


  12. #60
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    Re: Help please with boring head on a drill press

    Quote Originally Posted by bcguide View Post
    If you make a bar I would not bother with tool steel mass is more important.
    That might be true if he were building the boring head, or assembling a large bar by welding a cutting section on to something larger, but for a situation like this, he needs a cutting edge with enough hardness, toughness and heat resistance to be able to finish at least one pass without needing the edge to be reworked. If he were cutting aluminum, a high-carbon steel edge, properly hardened and tempered, would do the job. Here, it won't.
    Any decent drill bit should be forged and ground from decent stock, but the base might have been somewhat annealed, so benefit from heat treating to harden more; should have mentioned that before.

  13. #61
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    Re: Help please with boring head on a drill press

    Have a look at the video. There is a hss cutter in the bar.

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    Re: Help please with boring head on a drill press

    This video shows it can be done but is using an indexable carbide boring bar. This gives me hope that it will work once I get a decent boring bar.


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    Re: Help please with boring head on a drill press

    If order indexable use a 7 it will give a better cut in A36 steel.

    Dave

    Quote Originally Posted by Welder Dave View Post
    This video shows it can be done but is using an indexable carbide boring bar. This gives me hope that it will work once I get a decent boring bar.


  16. #64
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    Re: Help please with boring head on a drill press

    This sounds like an exercise in frustration. A drill press will not handle a single point cutter well. They just aren't built for a one sided load. They are built to twist stuff. That is why your boring bars are failing. Not because of the material they are made of. Or the material they are cutting. Even mills have trouble boring from time to time.
    My name's not Jim....

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  18. #65
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    Re: Help please with boring head on a drill press

    Lots of bad reviews for the brazed carbide Chinese boring bars and how do you explain the video I posted, the guy just got lucky? I will try a better boring bar and go from there. I don't have to take big cuts.

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    Re: Help please with boring head on a drill press

    Quote Originally Posted by Welder Dave View Post
    Lots of bad reviews for the brazed carbide Chinese boring bars and how do you explain the video I posted, the guy just got lucky? I will try a better boring bar and go from there. I don't have to take big cuts.
    I've gotten better finishes out of hole saws. When doing an interference fit, finish matters. Why does it matter? Because those hills and valleys are going to level off over time and you will loose your interference fit. Chatter kills cutting edges. A boring head in a drill press is guaranteed to chatter.

    You need a different setup period. There is a good reason in situ line boring set ups are beefy and supported at both ends.
    My name's not Jim....

  20. #67
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    Re: Help please with boring head on a drill press

    It will clean up nice with a flap wheel. It needs to be about 3 thou. under for a shrink fit but a slightly rougher finish would be beneficial if it was installed with Loctite bearing retainer. I was originally considering a hole saw but a couple members on here said a boring head in a drill press could work better if I went slow and didn't take deep cuts. The video I posted above supports this so I think it's worth trying a better boring bar. Is line boring better, yes but I don't have $1000 to spend on 1 hole. Bearings and flanges I can get but I don't have the resources to make a boring bar. Mostly what I need to do is get a round hole square from top to bottom and close to size. Then I can finish it with a flap wheel. If the hole isn't perfect but within .006" I have the option of using a spring tension bushing instead of the solid OEM bushing. If it was a machine I relied on day after day to make my living, then I'd get a line borer to come out.

  21. #68
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    Re: Help please with boring head on a drill press

    Sounds great 👍.
    Hope you took photos 📸 you can post.

    Dave

    Quote Originally Posted by Welder Dave View Post
    It will clean up nice with a flap wheel. It needs to be about 3 thou. under for a shrink fit but a slightly rougher finish would be beneficial if it was installed with Loctite bearing retainer. I was originally considering a hole saw but a couple members on here said a boring head in a drill press could work better if I went slow and didn't take deep cuts. The video I posted above supports this so I think it's worth trying a better boring bar. Is line boring better, yes but I don't have $1000 to spend on 1 hole. Bearings and flanges I can get but I don't have the resources to make a boring bar. Mostly what I need to do is get a round hole square from top to bottom and close to size. Then I can finish it with a flap wheel. If the hole isn't perfect but within .006" I have the option of using a spring tension bushing instead of the solid OEM bushing. If it was a machine I relied on day after day to make my living, then I'd get a line borer to come out.

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    Re: Help please with boring head on a drill press

    I hope this turns out good Dave. You're behind the 8 ball on it so far, but that's not the worst thing I guess.

    I'm tearing down the front end on the tractor within a few days. I hope it'll be a good illustration of what you can do with DOM, when a piece is too large to get on any kind of machine tool.........or at least my machine tools. Gonna be weld buildup, setup with spirit levels on pipe stands, cone stone rough sizing, then welding in a piece of DOM. Pin sized to fit the DOM. All setup/fitup done with levels...........cool stuff. I gotta do what I can, with what I got.

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  24. #70
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    Re: Help please with boring head on a drill press

    Quote Originally Posted by farmersammm View Post
    I hope this turns out good Dave. You're behind the 8 ball on it so far, but that's not the worst thing I guess.

    I'm tearing down the front end on the tractor within a few days. I hope it'll be a good illustration of what you can do with DOM, when a piece is too large to get on any kind of machine tool.........or at least my machine tools. Gonna be weld buildup, setup with spirit levels on pipe stands, cone stone rough sizing, then welding in a piece of DOM. Pin sized to fit the DOM. All setup/fitup done with levels...........cool stuff. I gotta do what I can, with what I got.
    Hmmmm..... been looking at some worn pivots on the hydraulic lifts on the drill and I want to upsize the bolts it pivots on that occasionally break . Might have to take a similar approach...
    The harder you fall, the higher you bounce...

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  25. #71
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    Re: Help please with boring head on a drill press

    Well I can finally report on my progress. Hoping to get some pics. up tomorrow. There is a definite learning curve but seems 3 times is the charm. First time I ground too much as part of the bore near the bottom was angled out from the bore and had about 3/32" gap. Preheated again and figured I'd weld up about 1/4 of the bore so I can have a nice straight hole. Nope, the weld is definitely a little harder than the base metal and caused the boring bar to cut too much opposite the 1/4 that had the weld applied. Ok, preheat and weld up the bore again. Seemed like everything was lined up good but getting near the correct size noticed that it was cutting too much off in part of the bore. It might have worked but bothered me so figured I'd start from scratch again. Welded the hole back up realizing that the boring bar works much better cutting the same material (weld). The US brazed carbide boring bar worked better but still chips way too easily. I was running out of boring bars and sick of trying to regrind them. I bought a small bench grinder and a silicon carbide wheel on sale. I was thinking I need to get some HSS blank to make a boring bar or get a carbide insert boring bar.

    As luck would have it a guy came to ride my track on Sat. that was a machinist and did some small jobs at home. He suggested I weld the drill press table to the backhoe frame to make it even more rigid but looking at it I figured I could put a block in-between the table and the swing pivot I was working on and bolt them together. I put a 4" block of wood in and turned the table up tight on the block. Then I bolted from the table to a piece of heavier rectangular tube I had. This did make it as rigid as possible. He said he had some lathe tools he could bring by on Sunday. They were all square but I read somewhere that 3/8" square will fit in a 1/2" hole if you grind the corners off a little. I tried to use a new 1/4" bit with a piece of welding rod for a spacer but didn't work. I tried a 3/8" brazed carbide with a much bigger carbide but it didn't work either. He had a broken piece of 3/8" square HSS so I ground probably the crudest cutting tool ever made. I made the point at the back so it was behind center when turning. Much to my delight it worked! And it wasn't chipping like the carbide. Not as nice a finish but it was cutting if I took pretty small bites. I went out today to hopefully finish. I got the bore close but the very top was a little oversize so I preheated again and put 2 beads around the top of the bore. I ground most of it with the plug wheel and finished with the HSS boring bar. The morse taper held for the most part. It came loose a couple times near the end but part way through the cutter jammed (the belts slipped) and it didn't come loose. I did a final finishing with a flap wheel.

    For some reason my caliper was reading different than before even when I zeroed it but the bore seemed about the right size for the hardened bushing. I heated my newly made bore to 400 or so deg's., put the bushing on an ice pack I had in my lunch pail and then applied Loctite 660 to the bushing. I very slightly rounded the top edge of the bore to help guide the bushing in. I put the bushing on top and a piece of plate on top of the bushing. I was going to use a C clamp to put the bushing in but decided I'd try to pound it in. It pounded in pretty good with a med. size ball pein hammer till about the last 1/4" or 5/16". Then I panicked a bit thinking if it doesn't go, I'll never get it back out. I grabbed my long handle sledge hammer, I think only 6lb. but after about 5 good hits the bushing was in! I am so darn glad this swing mount didn't get the best of me. The pin is slightly snug at the bottom where the bushing is tighter in the bore but is easily tapped in/out with a hammer. I can live with that. Broke a couple drill bits trying to drill through the weld for the grease hole but got er done. Might need to tap for a larger grease fitting but that's minor.

    So relieved and a HUGE thanks to those that helped with this and for suggesting the boring head! If you ever have to do this, don't bother with brazed carbide and just use HSS. It will save you tons of frustration. My back is killing me but I'm a very happy camper!
    Last edited by Welder Dave; 08-02-2022 at 01:11 AM.

  26. #72
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    Re: Help please with boring head on a drill press

    I should mention that I got a better finish than the video link posted I posted earlier. After using the carbide at 300 RPM I tried the HSS at 300 RPM. I was using the HSS at 180 RPM but was pleasantly surprised that it worked better at 300 RPM. It was faster and seemed to cut a little easier. Still a lot of passes and took a long time for the repair but I'm happy with the result. Hopefully it goes back together without any major issues.

  27. #73
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    Re: Help please with boring head on a drill press

    Success! I got the backhoe mounted back on the Cat and the top pin lined right up with my repaired pivot. I was a little worried it might be at an angle and the pin wouldn't go in. The pin was tight in the bottom of the hardened bushing but I took a flap wheel and cleaned the bushing up so the pin goes in easily. I thought it might cause problems if the pin was too tight in the hardened bushing. I'm thrilled it went back together without too much trouble and I was able to fix it myself. Hopefully I never have to worry about it again. Will try to get help posting some pics. on the weekend.

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  29. #74
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    Re: Help please with boring head on a drill press

    Here's some pics. of how I did the repair. The tubing clamped to the drill press table really helped to hold everything as rigid as possible. It's kind of hard to tell but the hole is centered pretty close. I put a piece of paper under the hole so I could see if I was removing material. I had to take pretty small cuts and I took too much of the top of the hole initially so heated it back up and ran 2 beads around the top. The bottom 1/4" or 5/16" was a little tighter to pound the bushing in but It shouldn't come loose like the last bushing the ruined the bore. Putting the hoe back on didn't go too bad except for knocking it off the jack I had supporting it. Of course I took out the 4x4 post sitting on a couple jack stands (for safety) which I should have left in place. Anyway It's back together and hopefully I won't have to worry about again. The 1st pic. is the finish I got with the brazed carbide boring bars. To use them on the side hole of boring head I had to turn them upside down because a drill press runs clockwise. Unfortunately I had to weld the bore again because the hole wasn't centered to my liking. The brazed carbide chipping was a real PIA. I think I would have faired a lot better if I could have found HSS boring bars. My home made boring bar made out of 3/8" square HSS did the trick though. I think it's it's just one of things you learn through trial and error.

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    Last edited by Welder Dave; 08-08-2022 at 12:19 AM.

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  31. #75
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    Re: Help please with boring head on a drill press

    From what the first picture shows, it appears you did get the setup to be quite a solid . I wasn't sure you could hold the bit from the side that way; good you could, and great that it all worked out so well.
    If you saved the chips, and use them to fertilize some red roses, when they bloom you can tell any admirers that they are a custom variety now called Backhoe Red.

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